large loans

[d_mckerrow06]

Hello, its always been my dream to become a professional pilot but now that the time is here to start going to college/flight school it looks like the only way to do it is going to be with large student loans. Even the community college I would go to that has an articulation program with the local FBO will still cost be around 28,200 for the first year and 18,200 for the second year. I would graduate with an associate in applied science, private pilots license, insturment license, commercial pilot single engine licenses, and my CFI. I am wondering if anyone has experience with loans of 40,000 or more. thanks.

[ananoman]

Originally Posted by d_mckerrow06

Hello, its always been my dream to become a professional pilot but now that the time is here to start going to college/flight school it looks like the only way to do it is going to be with large student loans. Even the community college I would go to that has an articulation program with the local FBO will still cost be around 28,200 for the first year and 18,200 for the second year. I would graduate with an associate in applied science, private pilots license, insturment license, commercial pilot single engine licenses, and my CFI. I am wondering if anyone has experience with loans of 40,000 or more. thanks.

They really suck and it can really limit your options later. I would advise you look around and try to get your training as cheaply as possible. Just make sure you have good instructors and the airplanes are properly maintained.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by d_mckerrow06

Hello, its always been my dream to become a professional pilot but now that the time is here to start going to college/flight school it looks like the only way to do it is going to be with large student loans. Even the community college I would go to that has an articulation program with the local FBO will still cost be around 28,200 for the first year and 18,200 for the second year. I would graduate with an associate in applied science, private pilots license, insturment license, commercial pilot single engine licenses, and my CFI. I am wondering if anyone has experience with loans of 40,000 or more. thanks.

Take the loan amount, divide it by around 100, and that'll be your approximate monthly payment, provided you don't go into forbearance (sp?).

40,000k/100 = $400/month. This could vary depending on your interest rate payment setup, but this would probably be right around worst case scenario.

That being said, $40k is nothing. I met one person who had $160k in loans . And he went to work for mesa. Not sure how he pulled that one off.

The other option would be to try and find a fairly high paying job right outside highschool (say construction), live with the 'rents, drive an old car with minimal insurance, and cut your expenses. Save up for ~2 years doing that and pay mostly cash for your ratings.

[surreal1221]

40k, that's total tuition costs (including flight) for an Associates degree in something? That's really not bad. . . lol 40k at some flight schools only gets you the flight portions.

[killbilly]

I was thinking the same thing...but didn't someone post recently that Southeastern Oklahoma State University had a 4-year degree with the same ratings for roughly the same amount of money?

[SpiraMirabilis]

What will you do when you want to fly something with two engines?

[kellwolf]

If I had to pay $400 a month for loans, I'd be in some serious trouble. First year FO really doesn't pay enough to cover that kind of debt, so unless you've got some seriously nice deferrment options, I'd try to find another way.

[d_mckerrow06]

I would have the option for multi engine training that was just not built into the cost so im not sure how much extra it is for that. My parents would be willing to co sign in most cases so my interest rates for well i should say more like a 50k loan would be around 6-7%. Anyone with any experience with a loan such as this?

[Texasspilot]

Originally Posted by killbilly

I was thinking the same thing...but didn't someone post recently that Southeastern Oklahoma State University had a 4-year degree with the same ratings for roughly the same amount of money?

me...I wen't there. I was out of state, but keeping above a 3.0 gives you a 90% out of state tuition waiver.


Might be slightly higher now with fuel prices but I doubt much...


As for the loans....40K for college is actually pretty good. Im sure your parents would have to cosign for everything since you prolly don't have any credit. I know I owe right around 40K and my payments are 330Month required but I always try and pay more.

Also it depends on who you are getting the loan from. There are tons of gov. subsidized laons out there as well as private lenders. I don't know how the gov. loans work at a C.C. though.

[Cazadores]

Your credit, and your debt load, is one of the most important things dictating options in your life. I am new here and don't want to seem like I'm preaching, lecturing or just being the blah blah blah guy, but try, put every possible effort, into staying out of debt.

Having said that, aviation is an expensive business, and to an extent your age and rate of progress are going to be a factor. Based on your situation, I am guessing you are around age 18, starting out your adult life 40K in the red could really set you back in ways you may not even be considering right now. You have A LOT of time if indeed this is your situation.

Something to think about, can you, in the event something were to happen in a few years preventing you from, say, maintaining a 1st class medical certificate, be employed in a position that will pay enough to cover all this?

My brother is an attorney. He went to law school to be a child advocate, which he ended up doing for seven years. He recently left for more lucrative opportunities with far less personal reward because his law school debt load was eating him alive. He wants kids, a house, a car other than his fiance's saturn and my grandmothers hand-me down '89 Taurus.

So, before I get into novel length territory-this is going to be your gut check-would you be happy not being able to fly for a living because your debt load precludes you? Or having to fly for a company you don't like, or do a type of flying not as rewarding, simply because it pays a bit better?

Blah blah blah.....sorry to lecture-just be careful out there!

[Cazadores]

I don't know, no multi time, a two year degree, I think there are better options out there....just my .02.

[Flying Ninja]

I agree with Casadores completely. After flight training, I accumulated just over $100K in debt that's currently at 8.5% variable rate and I'm paying out $970 per month (so far). That's just the minimum payment. I would warn anyone interested in getting into the aviation career to minimize your debt footprint to as small as you can. If you can pay all cash into your flight training, then you'll do just fine. You really need a lot of money to get into this industry and the rewards financially isn't what it used to be back in the glory days. It's a struggle that you need to be okay with, where your "pay" is sitting in that right seat of a jet, and not something that's sitting in your bank account(s).

My advice is, find the cheapest possible way to get your certifications and ratings and instruct to build up your flight experience hours. Being in debt after flight training and trying to figure out how to make ends meet with that first few years at the regionals is extremely challenging.

[B767Driver]

Originally Posted by d_mckerrow06

Hello, its always been my dream to become a professional pilot but now that the time is here to start going to college/flight school it looks like the only way to do it is going to be with large student loans. Even the community college I would go to that has an articulation program with the local FBO will still cost be around 28,200 for the first year and 18,200 for the second year. I would graduate with an associate in applied science, private pilots license, insturment license, commercial pilot single engine licenses, and my CFI. I am wondering if anyone has experience with loans of 40,000 or more. thanks.

Here's an illustration of what $40,000 can do for you or will do to you.

1. If you invested it at an assumption of 10% rate of return for 40 years you would have $2.3 million.

2. If you took out a loan to finance flight training, you would end up paying $95,000 assuming a 7% loan for 25 years.

3. If you earned $100,000 for 25 years...you would earn a total of $2.5 million (that's exclusive of taxes).

It's your call...but I look at debt as pretty evil.


Take a look at what that loan is going to do for your financial future.

[meyers9163]

Well first of all loans are no good.... Evil is a great word to describe them. However I would go as far to say that most 4 year degrees (in state tuition) cost approximately 20k. Yeah there are various things such as grants, scholarships, that cut that cost down but if you pay out of pocket for your education it'd be about 20k for just your 4 year degree. And if you go to a private university even more then that (could be as much as 100k just for undergrad). Anyways my 2cents is this. If you can seriously get all your ratings and a 4 year degree for 40k and find some sort of scholarship to cut the cost some you are on a good track. Yes 1st year pay does stink but anyone out there cannot argue that a 4 year degree alone will run anywhere from 20k (Purdue University in state tuition) to 100k (Bulter University in Indianapolis). So just my 2 cents on this..... yes stay out of debt as much as possible but 40k for a degree in a non aviation related field and ratings I would have to argue is not too bad...... however if its only a 2 year Associate I'd re think it just a slight bit. And again all the ratings would need to be covered.

[B767Driver]

If you work, during school (8 months) for 20 hours per week earning $8 per hour...and during summers (4 months) for 60 hours per week that would be roughly $13k per year. Getting a little help from scholarships and grants and parents...and you are cash flowing college. Most importantly staying away from the loan officer at the bank.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

however if its only a 2 year Associate I'd re think it just a slight bit. And again all the ratings would need to be covered.

From his first post, I think it's for a 2-year coming out with a Commercial/Instrument/CFI, but no multi.

Of course, the multi can be done for pretty cheap these days at a place like ATP.

Of all the pilots I've ever flown with, the ones that have been the happiest and most stress free were the ones that owed nothing, and owned their home.

The fact is, for those that fell under that umbrella, they were all "career changers" who used their previous income to save and pay off their mortage. The captains that are in their 20's at my airline, for the most part, have large student loan debt, and even though they are making $60k+/yr they live worse then me, making about half of that. Their disposable income is much less then what I have to work with.

[deserteaglle]

The info. you've gotten on why loans are the devil is spot on. You don't want that kind of crap because IT WILL chain you down to something you may not care to be chained down to within a few years.

Two year degrees are worthless, and a worthless degree, no multi-engine ratings, and over 50k in debt at age 21 is NOT something you should be looking forward to. It's actually just plain stupid.

I know it's hard to listen to people at all when you want to do something, especially when you don't know them, but my advice, for what it's worth (You DID ask ), is to slow down, get a four year degree, and work on saving money and flying while you're doing that.

In four years you'll be 22, have a degree that's worth something, all your ratings and experience in all different types of flying (Due to exposure to different times of year and experiences) and you won't have that ball and chain of debt weighing you down.

God luck on your decision.

[MCP]

It really depends where you go.

Univiversity California at Berkeley was $582 a unit (or thereabouts, not including books)....thank God for full ride (almost) scholarships while I was there.

When I went to Fresno State (I am a California resident), I paid $1400 a semester, not inlcuding books. Books were about $400-$600 per semester.

[MCP]

Originally Posted by B767Driver

If you work, during school (8 months) for 20 hours per week earning $8 per hour...and during summers (4 months) for 60 hours per week that would be roughly $13k per year. Getting a little help from scholarships and grants and parents...and you are cash flowing college. Most importantly staying away from the loan officer at the bank.

Be sure to take out for taxes.

[Cazadores]

This is entirely a personal call, your risk tolerance, your tolerance for discomfort, and your age/goals.

I know for myself I would hate, HATE, to be in a situation making 24-32k a year, paying 500+ monthly in loan payments, living expenses difficult to keep in the same ball park, and meet someone I wanted to have a family with, or decide I wanted to take an investment opportunity, or have my beater old jalopy I need to get to the airport to tango uniform......

I drove trucks, busses, airport limos as an undergrad at UCD and made it fine, and had a blast. Maybe you could split the difference and get low interest federal subsidized loans for your academics, and work to pay for flight training since those loans generally have pretty stiff terms?

Maybe the Air Force Reserve, I wish I had done that when I was younger, VA pays for a good portion of flight training, and in some states I think your public college education is free?

Just some thoughts, good luck to you.

[meyers9163]

Before people start thinking I am a fan of loans let me clearify.

Normal training from an FBO (or in Indianapolis)
PPL-6k, IFR-5-6k, Multi Comm-2k, Single add on/CFI-4k, CFII/MEI-4k
Total-approximately 20k and a need to time build

Yes you can find cheaper places but I just wanted it known that a degree and all ratings for 40k is not the worst price ever. One could be spending a lot more for both of these. Now on the note of LOANS yes they stink. But if he's one that wants to get it done and does not care how I figured he should know there are worse options out there. (i.e. 100k in debt from flying alone). I dont mean to condone LOANS/DEBT! We all I think can agree that stuff is just awful!

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by MCP

Be sure to take out for taxes.

...and the fact that not many companies will let you work overtime anymore. To work 60 hours/week you'd need two jobs most likely.

Of the people that got the furthest so far that I know, *most* got their CFI ratings ASAP and instructed thru college (I attended ERAU). CFI's get paid around $12-$20/hr and you can work a pretty flexible schedule outside of your college classes. Of course, you'd have to pony up that money right up front but you might be able to work a significant amount off by the time you graduate from a 4-year. Plus, once you graduate, assuming you have 135 mins, you can slip right into a better paying freight or regional gig, and you won't have to make those now smaller loan payments on a CFI salary.

[Cazadores]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

Before people start thinking I am a fan of loans let me clearify.

Normal training from an FBO (or in Indianapolis)
PPL-6k, IFR-5-6k, Multi Comm-2k, Single add on/CFI-4k, CFII/MEI-4k
Total-approximately 20k and a need to time build

Yes you can find cheaper places but I just wanted it known that a degree and all ratings for 40k is not the worst price ever. One could be spending a lot more for both of these. Now on the note of LOANS yes they stink. But if he's one that wants to get it done and does not care how I figured he should know there are worse options out there. (i.e. 100k in debt from flying alone). I dont mean to condone LOANS/DEBT! We all I think can agree that stuff is just awful!

No doubt, We can all agree JC + Loan discussion = Mass Tirade.

I don't know if you could work like I did and still make it through the UC anymore (I'm keeping how long ago that was to myself).

However if in Indiana you can go to Purdue for 20k, and get a BS/BA, I bet you could find a FBO or aero club to make you a single engine CFI for less than $26,400.00, you would be ahead of the game compared to the junior college plan outlined.

[LoadMasterC141]

While I completely agree that debt should be avoided, there are unfortunately times that it may be necessary. In my case, I wanted an Ivy League degree, but Mommy and Daddy were not going to roll over and pay for it like most American parents. I minimized my total debt by joining the Air Force for 4 years to get the GI Bill Bennies. I also went to Community College for the first two years and then transferred. I came out with an Ivy League degree and it cost me $30,000 in debt. Not really that bad considering the average student loan for schools in that caliber is close to 6 figures. Did it help? God yes it did. It opened doors for me that would never have been visible simply because I had that piece of paper from a very recognized school.

I think the key to loans is how fast you pay them off. I mean it is really the interest that hurts. I have never paid a loan off to maturity.

At the age you are, you have plenty of time to save up some cash to pay for this stuff. Even if you don’t save up all the money, at least you can mediate the debt incurred by saving as much as possible.

I am headed to ATP at some point in the near future and DO NOT have the $45k to pay for it. I envision taking out a little bit of a loan, but certainly not the full amount. If I were your age, I would wait until I had it all though.

[deserteaglle]

Originally Posted by LoadMasterC141

Mommy and Daddy were not going to roll over and pay for it like most American parents.

pffffftttt, I wish you were right here.