Trans-Atlantic Terror Threat Busted

[ready2fly]

The BBC is reporting that one of the supsects was a London-Heathrow employee with an All Areas Pass.

[sorrygottarunway]

Originally Posted by OldTownPilot

Does that include while commuting?? or just "working" crewmembers?

The TSA should not be able to tell, and frankly, its none of their business who's name is on the release.

[mike295855]

The BBC is only reporting one person had an all area pass?

[EDUC8-or]

The exception is for crew members in uniform.

I hear all this "Flying is going to be soooo boring now..." stuff, whatever happened to a good book? Shoot, I'll get so involved in a book that I don't want to put it down after all of the other passengers are off the plane and it's my turn to go.

[rausda27]

Can someone with more free time than I please go back and count how many times "kneejerk" appeared in this post.

Thanks.

[Callous]

I cant imagine that this will not help the air-taxi startups. I read an article on CNN earlier that hypothesized 5 hr security checks, while that does sound a little outrageous, 2-3 hours is (or soon will be) the norm, even domestically. The Eclipse Jet is going to look very very good at that point, especially if they (whomever) start restricting cell phones and computers as carryon.

[n57flyguy]

Originally Posted by ready2fly

The BBC is reporting that one of the supsects was a London-Heathrow employee with an All Areas Pass.

Of course, only makes sense that he would have that.

[pilot602]

Originally Posted by ready2fly

The BBC is reporting that one of the supsects was a London-Heathrow employee with an All Areas Pass.

Again, if it's a problem with the wrong people getting ID's -- THAT system should be reworked not some hal-a$$ed-related-area. Knee-jerk. Knee-jerk. Knee-jerk. (there's three more times for the tally )

[pilot602]

Originally Posted by ColMustard

Whatever happened to the element of surprise? If we had started banning these materials a few days before, the terrorists would've caught a hint of this and destroyed all traces. Probably why they were able to make the twenty-some-odd arrests.

You don't show your hand before you gamble, play it with the Ace in the pocket, then its a win everytime.

Sorry, this isn't a personal attack ... but that's the dumbest damn thing I've heard in a long time. "Uh, let's let 'em blow up some stuff so they don't think we're on to 'em ... then we'll bust 'em." If you catch them early they don't blow anything up!

On this same note, I think the intelligence system is certainly not perfect, but which system is? I assume most of the folks on here (me included) knows very little of the business that is the "intelligence industry". Let the pros do their job, and we'll do ours.

Just my $0.02

-ColM

When their stupidiudty afffects my job it becomes my business.

[pilot602]

Originally Posted by Mahesh

Well I think that they are trying to at least prevent certain chemicals, which if mixed together, blow up. It would take a person to do this. True, you could come up with some time delay mechanism and put the thing in the cargo hold but that would require electronics and hopefully it can be caught (if infact they are really X-raying all checked bags).

"Undetectable substances" are still being allowed on the aircraft. It's just, now, they're all being put in a very vunerable place. It makes no sones whatsoever. A more appropriate measure would to be simply ban ALL liquids from the aircraft outright "until such time ..."

This policy is stupid, retarded and unthought-out.

[B767]

I can understand the point about waiting till near the end to spoil the plot. (Apparently there was going to be a dry run either tomorrow or Saturday).All the info is gathered and all suspects are gathered. However, I agree with most everyone, why weren't/aren't more security measures in place? Why do we only walk through metal detectors and not bomb detectors? I agree, for the most part, with the current government. However, I do believe that more effort and money needs to be placed in ACTUALLY making travel safer and not spending tax dollars on pretending to be safer? Even if there are major advancements in bomb detecting equipment for airports, the government will still purchase from the lowest bidder.

As for the whole knee-jerk reaction. Who knows how much the US was actually involved in the intelligence aspect. London officials spoiled the plot with leads that Pakistani intel gave them. For some reason I can't see the US and Pakistan working close together. Maybe I'm wrong?

Lastly, don't forget that we are not the only ones affected this time. The terrorists were also going to be on BAW flights as well. And, I heard earlier this morning - don't know if it was false or not - that Qatar officials also spoiled the plot that was apparently going to happen on a Qatar Airways flight.

[WestIndian425]

I, for one, am happy that the people were caught and arrested. I don't agree that intelligence was caught with their pants down, so to speak, becuase that would mean that we'd be talking about AA, UA, and CO (and who knows what other airlines) flights being blown up.

I do agree that our policies need a lot of work. I don't think, though, that the country isn't trying. Like it or not, no administration wants that kind of tragedy on their watch.

I'm glad that some are making suggestions to the senators and other lawmakers. Turning a blind eye and complaining really doesn't help (not insinuating anything...disclaimer). Maybe we can get the "alphabets" (GAMA, ALPA, AOPA, NBAA, etc.) to do something. I see we all have good suggestions and ideas; why not forward them to our respective unions and organizations and see if that would help? We have to start sometwhere.

Neil

[Kristie]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

To me, this is just another item on a list of TSA "reforms" that's been happening in the past week. First we got the "have to get a security pass unless your airline serves the airport," now it's gone to "unless your airline serves this CONCOURSE," now we've got people in a fit over contact solution and toothpaste. Personally, I don't want to suit up everytime I non-rev, and my family doesn't even have THAT option. Who wants to spend the night in the airport b/c they didn't make the flight but their contact solution, toothpaste and hair gel did?

Wanna solve the problem, actually REFORM SECURITY. Don't change the policy eight times in three months. Spend some $$$ on actual detecting equipment that works instead of paying someone that doesn't even know their own policies to wave a wand or swab a bag. I don't fell (and haven't felt) any safer in the air than I did before 9/11. In fact, I've seen things get WORSE. We could throw the Ben Franklin quote about security and liberty around all day, but guess what? It applies. The government has decided that the best way to protect us is to ban anything that might be a danger instead of trying to find the danger itself. This is an ostrich approach that almost bit us in the a$$. The more people just go along with it, the more stuff is going to be banned. At some point, the public is gonna have to say "Okay, that's enough."

Nicely said and I totally agree....

we're just putting on antoher facade at this point. what they could have done was stuff like implementing certain carrying instruments for liquids or who knows what before... slowly weaning people to a new way of packing vs the whole "move it NOW" type method.

[Polarbear]

FYI for everyone. As I am flying on Saturday (and not comming back for six weeks) I took the time to read the TSA website and found out laptops, cell phones, and other electronic devices are still allowed. According to the websidte today at 5:21PM Central time any report from the media that electronic items are being banned is just not true for the US.

[kellwolf]

Whatever happened to the element of surprise? If we had started banning these materials a few days before, the terrorists would've caught a hint of this and destroyed all traces. Probably why they were able to make the twenty-some-odd arrests.

This is the same philosophy the FBI and immigration took with letting the 9/11 hijackers into the country. "Watch, see what happens. Maybe we'll get a bigger bust." That worked out well, didn't it?

[WestIndian425]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

This is the same philosophy the FBI and immigration took with letting the 9/11 hijackers into the country. "Watch, see what happens. Maybe we'll get a bigger bust." That worked out well, didn't it?

No, it didn't. I really hope we've learned a lot from that experience.

Neil

[OldTownPilot]

Originally Posted by sorrygottarunway

The TSA should not be able to tell, and frankly, its none of their business who's name is on the release.

I just checked my dads employee site and it explictly states the exemption is for "working cremembers only"

As far as the release thing, Delta. continental etc. does not fly to BGR but their "Regoinal partners" do. How does a commuting Continental pilot get the expemtion to travel on a XJT flight to work? especially if he is required to show the gate pass? I see how this would be possible at an airport where the airline flies to.

[Texguy]

I just hope this ban on any kind of liquid or gel is gone before I fly again.

[Doug Taylor]

I think we need to be patient, wait for the dust to settle on this one.

I tried that line on some lady that read me the riot act about her moccachino in Denver today.

Didn't work.

Note to self: Self? learn to ignore people more effectively.

[SkyHawg]

People can still take cars, trains, boats, horse drawn wagons, and bicyles to get to where ever they want to go. So if the requirements to try to keep people alive is too stringent I think people should find other forms of transportation. Me personally, if I have to choose between a 5 hours flight to LA that required me to do thehockey pockey and get patted down and thoroughly search instead of driving two days I choose to fly.

If I can to choose between inconvenience and death. I choose inconvenience.

[kellwolf]

My question is how much is too much? Where do you draw the line between terrorist and passenger? TSA seems to take the stance of "treat everyone as a terrorist and we'll stop something from happening." Me personally, being a suspect everytime I board a flight gets a little old.

As far as the flight crews, if you're IN UNIFORM, you're exempt. Sucks for the guys commuting in the night before. Unless they wear their uniforms, the toothpaste still needs to go underneath.

[sorrygottarunway]

Originally Posted by OldTownPilot

I just checked my dads employee site and it explictly states the exemption is for "working cremembers only"

As far as the release thing, Delta. continental etc. does not fly to BGR but their "Regoinal partners" do. How does a commuting Continental pilot get the expemtion to travel on a XJT flight to work? especially if he is required to show the gate pass? I see how this would be possible at an airport where the airline flies to.

For ease of transportation, I suggest commuting in the uniform and just flashing the badge as you hurriedly pass through...

[flygirl813126]

The problem here is people....people are more than 75% liquid.

[jtrain609]

Originally Posted by flygirl813126

The problem here is people....people are more than 75% liquid.

Then I say we ban people! And if you're not with banning people, you're supporting the terrorists!

[WestIndian425]

LOL...nice to see we can still find humor in things.

Neil