Fear of Crosswind landings

[LoadMasterC141]

I never had much experience with crosswind landings when I did flying as a kid. Now that I am flying out of a field that seems built the wrong way, there is almost always some kind of crosswind. Tonight I am to do some short field practice and some landings, then my instructor is going to cut me loose for some solo time(Already solo'd). I just checked the AWOS via phone and the winds are 070 @ 12 gusting to 16 for runway 19. Crosswind max for a 172 is 17 Knots. I felt my heart pallpitate a little as I remember the few crosswind landings I have done at a max of 6-8Knots.

I seem to have an unnatural fear of them right now. I havent had an inkling of fear for anything yet, but thse make me nervous. I don't mind crabbing sideways in. I can turn and flare, but the gusts bouncing me around on the flare make me nervous.

What is the best remedy? Do more and more of them?

[mhcasey]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a quartering tailwind? I think Airliners aren't supposed to land with more than a 10 knot tailwind component, so that might be a good rule of thumb for us too.

[SeanD]

My remedy : 2 shots of Patron and a cigarrette.
Im kidding, I had the same problem when I went to another airport with much higher winds. Just relax and fly the plane and do some study up on corrections for crosswind landings and you'll do fine. Im sure there are more people with a lot more hours than me that might have some better pointers but this is what got me through and still does. Good luck

[TheFlyingTurkey]

Originally Posted by LoadMasterC141

I never had much experience with crosswind landings when I did flying as a kid. Now that I am flying out of a field that seems built the wrong way, there is almost always some kind of crosswind. Tonight I am to do some short field practice and some landings, then my instructor is going to cut me loose for some solo time(Already solo'd). I just checked the AWOS via phone and the winds are 070 @ 12 gusting to 16 for runway 19. Crosswind max for a 172 is 17 Knots. I felt my heart pallpitate a little as I remember the few crosswind landings I have done at a max of 6-8Knots.

I seem to have an unnatural fear of them right now. I havent had an inkling of fear for anything yet, but thse make me nervous. I don't mind crabbing sideways in. I can turn and flare, but the gusts bouncing me around on the flare make me nervous.

What is the best remedy? Do more and more of them?

There are two techniques you can try. Which one you choose is what you are comfortable with.
Airlines like it when you "crab" to the threshold, then kick in a little rudder for the landing. This makes it more comfy for the peeps in back.
I prefer the "slip" where you dip a wing into the wind on final, add some rudder and slip it on in for landing. Using this method make sure you keep an eye on your airspeed, get too slow and you can get in trouble. This method gets you nice and stable all the way down, and there are no surprises low over the runway. By the time you flare you already know the right amount of x-wind correction, and you can concentrate on landing.

The "slip" method is good if you're VMC, but useless when you're doing an instrument approach in actual IMC... you'll have to "crab" it then.

But for now don't over think it. Set flaps, set power, and keep her on the center-line. If you do bounce it, you'll have room to go around. Heck if you're that worried about it, do a few "low approaches" where you get on center-line, but keep it up 50 feet or so, keep enough power to keep from landing, and try adding rudder and aileron until you get the right combination, and get comfy with it.

Good luck!

[deserteaglle]

There are a lot of good pointers that you should listen to, but don't forget this...JUST FLY THE DAMN AIRPLANE.

Really simple. Keep it on the centerline, and don't screw up.

[JDE]

Originally Posted by SeanD

My remedy : 2 shots of Patron

You definately don't fly for a living

[Airdale]

I used to have the same fear. If I heard winds near 10kts I'd start shaking. It was pretty funny now that I look back at it.

Crosswind landings are something that I think every student struggles with, and you won't really get it down perfect until you get around 200hrs or so. I think thats where I really started to get better. Once you nail a few good crosswinds, it just clicks and crosswind landing become a non-event from that point forward.

It just takes a good feel for it, dip the wing into the wind and hold some opposite rudder until touch down. Sounds easy I know, but until you get a good feel for it, it'll still rattle you a bit. Have your instructor just go do some crosswind landings with you, that helped me out a bit. Don't worry about ground looping the plane or anything bad happening. Just put the plane down slow and softly and input controls to keep it there. You'll do fine.

[deserteaglle]

Originally Posted by Airdale

and you won't really get it down perfect until you get around 200hrs or so.

lol. I can't wait to see what DDog has to say about this.

[desertdog71]

Use your rudder for alignment. Get your logitudinal axis pointed straight up the runway. At that point the crosswind will cause you to drift. To control the drift, roll slightly into the wind suing ailerons. You will get a feel for it pretty quick. Then flare and do everything else the same way you have been taught. Remembering to touchdown on the upwind wheel first to prevent sideloading. Remember that your job is not over when the wheels touchdown, continue to use your ailerons like you would when taxiing in crosswinds.

That is the best advice I can give you without actually showing you.

I have also noticed that using reduced flap setting say 20 degrees is helpful also. After you do a couple nice ones, it will be a non issue for you. I don't think it takes 200 hours, or anything like that. It just takes some practice is all. You will do fine.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by Airdale

It just takes a good feel for it, dip the wing into the wind and hold some opposite rudder until touch down.

Interesting that I always thought about it in the opposite manner. I'd set up on final in a crab, then slowly bring in rudder to align the nose with the runway. At the same time start using opposite aileron to keep from drifting off towards the downwind side. For example with a left crosswind the crab would set up the plane with the nose pointing towards the left - feed in right rudder to align the nose with the runway, and add left aileron to keep from drifting to the right. Then it's just a matter of sticking with the same pattern - use the rudder to keep the nose pointing the right direction, use the ailerons to control side to side drift. For some reason that was an easier way for me to think about it when I was learning.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by LoadMasterC141

What is the best remedy? Do more and more of them?

Yep. More of them with a CFI who knows how to teach them (not all do - even good CFIs are not good at everything). What you're trying to build is the skill and confidence to know that you can, as desertegale so eloquently put it, "just fly the damn airplane."

It may or may not help, but here's my general approach to crosswind landings:

http://www.midlifeflight.com/faq/faq.php?s=3#7

Maybe there's something there that will click for you.

[desertdog71]

Originally Posted by deserteaglle

lol. I can't wait to see what DDog has to say about this.

It takes practice is all. Not 200 hours of experience. I get plenty of opportunity to do crosswind landings in high winds, so they are a non issue for me. However if you do not get much exposure then it can be a hair raising experience.

I am sure he will do fine with it.

[dbrault17]

Originally Posted by Airdale

and you won't really get it down perfect until you get around 200hrs or so.

I pound it into my students how to land in crosswinds until they get it down perfect. I was never that good at them either until about 200 hours but that was because I never practiced them i just dodged crosswinds as best as I could. I get alot of rental checkouts who never really got down crosswind landings because they dodged them. First student I went up with was on a very windy day with a crosswind and my student froze on the controls and we stalled sideways on the runway (the students wife asked to be let out even though we were pretty far from from the home airport). After that it was my mission to teach solid crosswind landings.

For practice set up in a sideslip on a long final this way it gives you plenty of practice. Dip your wing into the wind-the amount of dip depends on the amount of drift or how hard the wind is blowing. Push the opposite rudder to align the nose up with the centerline. Since you will be in a slip more power maybe needed to maintain airspeed. You will constantly need to be adjusting bank and rudder to maintain your flight path and centerline. Leveling off and flaring should happen the same time just you will be sideways touching down on the upwind wheel first. After you touch down do not relax that bank. After you slow down a bit continue to put in full aileron deflection. The hint to crosswind landing is hard to type in words but its all about that rudder. Keep playing with that rudder to center the centerline with the nose. Once you get that sight picture down and youre not afraid to play with the rudders they really are a bunch of fun.

One more thing-I never recommend telling a student to "kick the rudder out". I told a student that in a C-150 and the situation turned real fun.

[LoadMasterC141]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a quartering tailwind? I think Airliners aren't supposed to land with more than a 10 knot tailwind component, so that might be a good rule of thumb for us too.

\

Yeah I meant runway one sorry about that.

Thanks for all the advice everyone! Really a great crowd here at JetCareers .

I got to the field and, just to tempt me, the winds had changed to 010 @ 4...Right down the runway! Of course, too good to be true, as we taxied out, I watched the Windsock dance all over and settle on 070 @ 10. We did soft field and short takeoffs and landings, but I was more concerned with the crosswind landings, as usual.

I think my instructor is giving me the crab technique. I know the difference, just interesting that he never uses either term. On final, with these winds, I am left rudder-right aileron. I increase that as we come to flare, and dip the wing to the right a little to stay on center line. Then I touch the right wheel and then the left---Ok ok...so I am not that good at the one wheel thing yet, but I make an attempt

We did 7 landings, 3 normal, 2 soft field, 2 short field. I did ok with all except the short; need to feel more comfortable with the "drop in", but they were my first.
I still get jittery with the landing, even though I land pretty smooth every time. The gusts make me the most nervous and I have to fight the urge to over-control, or over-compensate, for them on flare out.

The instructor told me to go to do some solo work in the pattern for an hour, but I decided not too. Today was a grueling day at work, and I was ready to go home. On the way hopme, I could not help think "you weenie".

This weekend we fly to Waco for my first controlled field, and navigation. I'll also be sure to get a few hours in crosswinds. I need it to click more to feel confident.

Thanks again for all the advice everyone!

[bLizZuE]

I use to hate x-wind landings. They're now my favorite thing to do, and I often request the unfavorable runway.

[TFaudree_ERAU]

Find the smallest runway you can (with your instructor of course) on the breeziest of days and have at it. Even as a CFI, this helped me overcome my fear of crosswinds from the right seat. Only thing with me is that I didn't have to go out and find that airport. It was right outside the hangar, all 2270 x 45 feet of it. Throw in the trees about 60 feet off the right edge and drainage ditches on both sides, and you better be on the ball. After having to do that a few times on the days when the winds crept up on you while out in the practice area, I wouldn't hesitate now to go out and do it in a 15 knot crosswind. Now I'm scared of big runways with the wind blowing right down them.

[MusketeerMan]

Originally Posted by desertdog71

To control the drift, roll slightly into the wind suing ailerons.

Sue the ailerons for how much? $1 or $ 2 mil? What did they ever do anyways?

[fish314]

Originally Posted by desertdog71

To control the drift, roll slightly into the wind suing ailerons.

Originally Posted by MusketeerMan

Sue the ailerons for how much? $1 or $ 2 mil? What did they ever do anyways?

I like that technique! Can I sue other parts of the plane when I screw up other stuff, like the elevator if I screw up a loop, or the throttles if I'm off speed? Just kiddin, DDog. One typo and all us comedians can't resist jumping all over it here.

[CaptainChris87]

youll get used to it, im assuming your flying a 172? the stick and rudder inputs will come with more and more practice, once you become good at it youll actually liek x wind landings. I rememer I unsated a stage check because I did not have proper correction in for a x wind landing. I did my solo xc with 14 knot x wind compnent and 28 max component endormsment and still did my landings fine and made it back.

[casey]

with practice your xwind landings will come, and eventually you wont even think much about them. When coming in I look at the wind for reference but when it comes time to land I dont really care what the wind is. All i care about is getting enough rudder in to keep the airplane straight and enough bank to keep it on centerline. I guess what I'm saying is just fly the airplane, the only thing a bigger "number" for xwind is going to do is increase the bank you need to control drift, and the only hard limit for that is how much can you bank without scraping a wing.

[falconvalley]

I'm gonna go conservative here and say don't solo that crosswind unless your very comfortable with it. Didn't your instructor put limitations on you soloing? Man, I wouldn't have been allowed anywhere near a crosswind like that by myself before I checkrideded.

Hope everything went well.

[casey]

Originally Posted by falconvalley

I'm gonna go conservative here and say don't solo that crosswind unless your very comfortable with it. Didn't your instructor put limitations on you soloing? Man, I wouldn't have been allowed anywhere near a crosswind like that by myself before I checkrideded.

I agree about not going unless you are comfortable with the conditions, and that applies to any situation when flying.

The second part I dont get, but dont get me wrong, i hear it a lot. Are you any better at xwind takeoff/landings after the PPL checkride than before it? I dont think so, and I'd much rather teach a student to deal with huge xwinds to the point that I'd be ok signing him off to solo in those conditions, than to send a student to a checkride with an 8kt limit.

[USMC-SGT]

get tailwheel endorsed, that will solve most wind problems. I didnt really get good at landing in general until i got signed off in a tailwheel. You do not have a choice but to keep it straight and on the centerline and if your feet are not actively alive on the pedals then the plane will show you who is boss.

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by deserteaglle

lol. I can't wait to see what DDog has to say about this.

Well for me, I didn't feel comfortable with crosswinds until around 200hrs. I could do them sure, and everytime I would get better and better. But up until that point I would be a little weary of crosswinds. Now the wind doesn't bother me, but I remember it took awhile for me to get comfortable with them. Maybe thats what I should have said instead.

[deserteaglle]

Originally Posted by Airdale

Well for me, I didn't feel comfortable with crosswinds until around 200hrs. I could do them sure, and everytime I would get better and better. But up until that point I would be a little weary of crosswinds. Now the wind doesn't bother me, but I remember it took awhile for me to get comfortable with them. Maybe thats what I should have said instead.

Yeah I know what ya meant, it's just that DDog and I have joked about this subject and both come from places where xwind technique is a necessity before you can solo at all. I think my first solo was in a 11kt xwind...not anything too rough, but no lamb either.

And on my first solo xcountry with 30 hrs, I had a REALLY hairy xwind at SNK. But by then I'd been in the pattern enough to know the plane well enough inthose conditions, carry more speed, less flaps, and be thankful for the long rwy.