CAT Parked all Aircraft (Jet Univ now CRJ200)

[BrianNC]

Originally Posted by Cherokee_Cruiser

Custom Air Transport.


They fly Boeing 727s.


But they're pretty much furloughing everyone:

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/a...transport.html

So what are they exactly? Never heard of them.

[kellwolf]

Trust me guys, we know the bad rap we've gotten by the company hiring a lot of spiky haired "frat types." The rest of us including myself, a lot of the other guys that went a bit more traditional (cargo, CFI, etc) and the guys that were around when all 9E flew were Saabs are working to change that image. It's tough when the guy you're talking to thinks he knows all the answers and looks cool walking through the terminal with his PNT bag and his iPod blaring.

These guys have taken the professional image of our pilot group down quite a few pegs, and it's taking a lot to raise it back up. Even heard from a check airman that I flew with that the image is starting to affect how our pilots are seen at interviews at other carriers. Now THAT is a wake up call right there. It'd be nice if we had some sorta of control over who the company hires and form where, but we've got enough of a fight on our hands not to wind up in Mesaba's shoes.

[Timbuff10]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

the guy you're talking to thinks he knows all the answers and looks cool walking through the terminal with his PNT bag and his iPod blaring.

That's the guy!

Didn't mean to single out your company, but I don't think I have ever noticed it more than in that terminal that day. It really was classic and I am sure it happens at all regionals to some extent.

[kellwolf]

Don, you should have a field day with these guy's marketing dept. Let's see what I can come up with just glancing.....

The Fast Track CRJ200 Training Program combines the extensive Jet University training program along with a guaranteed Part-121 CRJ first officer interview. As a part of the program, you will obtain your ATP,

Er, not without all the required aeronautical experience you won't. There's a HUGE difference between "obtaining your ATP" and passing the ATP written....

complete more than 260 hours of CRJ200 ground school, and fly CRJ200 simulators for more than 76 hours. Then, upon successful completion of your pre-arranged Part-121 first officer interview you will complete an additional 20 hours of full motion CRJ200 simulator training and fly approximately 675 hours in the CRJ200 in your first year on the line.

All of which I got for FREE by not buying my job. Okay, I didn't get the extra 76 hours of sim time, and I haven't hit 675 hours in the CRJ, but I've only been flying the darn thing for a month or so.....

As a Part-121 first officer, you will earn more than $20 per flight hour and fly under code share for a major airline. While flying as a first officer, you will have unrestricted airline jump seat privileges, and worldwide pass privileges for you and your family.

Worldwide pass privilieges and unrestricted jumpseating? Someone really needs to redifine the verbage on THIS one. Jumpseating is great until the more senior pilot or the mainline guy bumps you off the flight. Worldwide pass privileges for you and your family? Only if you love travelling at the crack of dawn or on red eyes. Don't think you're going to Disney in the middle of July on vacation....

This course takes the airline pilot candidate who already holds a commercial multi-engine and instrument rating directly into the right seat of a CRJ200. All training is approved and conducted under Federal Aviation Regulation Parts- 61, 91, 121, and 142.

This might be the worst one of all. It does nothing of the sort. It takes you to the right seat of a table across from a couple of guys interviewing you. It does NOT take you right into the CRJ.....

Interview and be hired upon completion of training avoiding costly temporary relocation

Someone want to explain this to me, cause I don't see how the "re-location" thing is gonna be any different than someone getting hired from the outside.

Training costs are reduced by Part-121 airline partner providing indoctrination and systems training

Yep, cause some of the hours they count in their "program" is actually you ground school at the airline. Priceless.

I didn't actually see Pinnacle mentioned except for pics of our planes. Which probably means we're in some kind of agreement with these scumbags. I could have just missed it, though.

[Screaming_Emu]

freakin rediculous

[wheelsup]

i wonder if gulfstream will actually have to hire FO's now, seeing as though people that were going to do Gulfstream's program would go to JetU instead to fly a jet...

[GaTechKid]

I commute quite a bit on 9E and the crews I've met have all been pleasant and professional. In my experience, that "fraternity type" behavior certainly isn't representative of the Pinnacle pilot group. It's a shame I won't complete my contract until at the end of Pinnacle's hiring boom, otherwise I'd probably jump ship. I'd be too uneasy being at the bottom of the list with all your uncertainty, but the thought of sitting reserve at home with the wife and dog is very very tempting...

[Callous]

So what is the deal with CAT anyway? Did UPS or FDX buy them? Is it normal to buy a cargo carrier and furlough all the pilots?

[BCTAv8r]

Originally Posted by Cherokee_Cruiser

Wait a minute, this isn't a permanent thing though for the F/Os, right? I mean it seems they get 675 hours flying the line, then it's the end of their "internship" , and they're shown the door?

I doubt they'd be shown the door. The program says they get an interview with the company about halfway through the program. If they pass the interview they do some more training and work for 675 hours with the airline. Considering they went through an interview, got the CRJ training, and are now flying the line, why would they send these pilots to the street? It wouldn't make any sense to hire guys off the street (the right thing to do) and pay for their training.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by BCTAv8r

I doubt they'd be shown the door. The program says they get an interview with the company about halfway through the program. If they pass the interview they do some more training and work for 675 hours with the airline. Considering they went through an interview, got the CRJ training, and are now flying the line, why would they send these pilots to the street? It wouldn't make any sense to hire guys off the street (the right thing to do) and pay for their training.

I thought it was obvious that the 675 hours in the RJ was based on a historical average for first year flying. That's what came to my mind anyway. No way could they just put these guys on the line and then kick them off, the union would have a fit. Generally contracts have a clause that says ALL company flying must be done by senority list pilots.

B. Scope
1. The Company recognizes the right of the pilots on the [pilot group] System Seniority List to perform the Company’s flying and operate the Company’s aircraft in accordance with the terms and conditions of the Agreement.

a. “Company’s flying” includes all present and future revenue and non-revenue flying conducted by 1) the Company or an Affiliate under the control of the Company, or an entity under the control of the Company’s holding Company, if one is established), or 2) an entity in which the Company (or its holding Company) owns a controlling equity interest.

Also, unless you do training under pinnacle, all the 'training' and I hesitate to call classroom time that, you do at JU counts for NADA. The CL-65 current IndyAir guys that came here still had to go through an indoc/systems class as well an abbreviated sim course.

[DE727UPS]

"No way could they just put these guys on the line and then kick them off, the union would have a fit"

From JU's marketing:

"This course takes the pilot with no experience through their private, instrument and commercial multi-engine ratings and then into a 675-hour airline internship with a Part 121 carrier"

Do Pinnacle interns normally get a line number?

The way I read it you would do the internship at PCL, in essence, paying for RJ F/O time. You get $20/hr back in pay, "more than twice what a normal CFI makes". I would bet after your 675, PCL would love to hire you but I bet it's not part of the program. At Gulfstream, there is no promise of a job after your 250.

Would a JU intern accrue seniority?
Would having intern's not on Pinnacle's seniority list violate the pilot groups scope clause?

Somebody needs to email Heath and ask. Pinnacle guys need to talk to their union reps about this.

[DE727UPS]

"So what is the deal with CAT anyway?"

Custom Air Transport was a bottom feeder (who else would associate with Jet U). The bulk of their operation was in support of Menlo which was bought out by UPS a while back. I guess they couldn't find enough work for the airplanes to keep it going. Probably screwed over a few JU grads...

[DE727UPS]

Funny JU pecking order....

"6-month minimum flying contract with a Part 121 Boeing 727 carrier. In 6 months, you will earn $30/flight hour which is more than twice the normal Regional Airline pay"

"12 -month minimum flying contract with a Part 121 Regional Jet Carrier. In 3 months, you will earn more than $20/flight hour which is more than twice the normal Certified Flight Instructor pay."

What's next, a JU CFI program where you make $10/flight hour, more than twice the normal pay for begging on the street corner...

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

"No way could they just put these guys on the line and then kick them off, the union would have a fit"

From JU's marketing:

"This course takes the pilot with no experience through their private, instrument and commercial multi-engine ratings and then into a 675-hour airline internship with a Part 121 carrier"

Do Pinnacle interns normally get a line number?

The way I read it you would do the internship at PCL, in essence, paying for RJ F/O time. You get $20/hr back in pay, "more than twice what a normal CFI makes". I would bet after your 675, PCL would love to hire you but I bet it's not part of the program. At Gulfstream, there is no promise of a job after your 250.

Would a JU intern accrue seniority?
Would having intern's not on Pinnacle's seniority list violate the pilot groups scope clause?

Somebody needs to email Heath and ask. Pinnacle guys need to talk to their union reps about this.

I think we are reading too much into the words they are using as 'marketing material'.

Course 200

The Fast Track CRJ200 Training Program combines the extensive Jet University training program along with a guaranteed Part-121 CRJ first officer interview. As a part of the program, you will obtain your ATP, complete more than 260 hours of CRJ200 ground school, and fly CRJ200 simulators for more than 76 hours. Then, upon successful completion of your pre-arranged Part-121 first officer interview you will complete an additional 20 hours of full motion CRJ200 simulator training and fly approximately 675 hours in the CRJ200 in your first year on the line.

Course 300

The Fast Track Airline Pilot Program combines Course 100 with Course 200 for those pilots that want to continue on with an airline career. This course takes the pilot with no experience through their private, instrument and commercial multi-engine ratings and then into a 675 hour airline internship with a Part 121 carrier.

Jet University provides the only First Officer Part 121 Jet Internship Program, including a 12 -month minimum flying contract with a Part 121 Regional Jet Carrier.

I think they are just using the word "internship" to make it sound like more of a college setting. Who knows. The fact that they are essentially viewing the position at Pinnacle as a "time building" seat is just sickening. This #####e has got to stop. What happened to our respectable careers...?

[DE727UPS]

"I think we are reading too much into the words they are using as 'marketing material'"

Maybe you're right but I've heard Gulfstreamers don't always get jobs after they do the 250 hour timebulding.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

"I think we are reading too much into the words they are using as 'marketing material'"

Maybe you're right but I've heard Gulfstreamers don't always get jobs after they do the 250 hour timebulding.

I would wager to bet that their contract has something in (or not in) it addressing that situation. We need to get ahold of pinnacles' scope section to see what is or is not allowed.

This would be managements' wet dream - perpetual first year pay and turnover WITHOUT the costs associated with training replacements (ie funded by the individuals themselves)!

It's only a matter of time until the CA's spots are farmed out too; that was already done with Gulfstream (a friend did it a couple years ago...).

[casey]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

This might be the worst one of all. It does nothing of the sort. It takes you to the right seat of a table across from a couple of guys interviewing you. It does NOT take you right into the CRJ.....

dont be too sure on that one. I know the at least at ATP, pinnacle has been interviewing and *hiring* people before the complete thier training (airline transition program afaik), with a job waiting for them as soon as the finish.

wouldnt be surprised if JetU had a similar deal.

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Originally Posted by casey

dont be too sure on that one. I know the at least at ATP, pinnacle has been interviewing and *hiring* people before the complete thier training (airline transition program afaik), with a job waiting for them as soon as the finish.

wouldnt be surprised if JetU had a similar deal.

So does this make the ATP airline tranisition program PJT also?

[jtrain609]

Can we call this being a scab? As far as I'm concerned, it's taking away the job I'm trying to do the right way. I think we should make a list of these pieces of crap.

[casey]

not a scab. as much as it sucks (i dont like it either) the word "scab" is being overused quite a bit lately. If they didnt cross a line...

[Bandit_Driver]

When is it going to end? When is the FAA going to release this is a safety issue? No one with that little experience belongs in the cockpit of any airliner or large freighter.

[Champcar]

Originally Posted by Bandit_Driver

When is it going to end? When is the FAA going to release this is a safety issue? No one with that little experience belongs in the cockpit of any airliner or large freighter.

When Pinnacle starts having accidents with these low timers in the right seat. Which I dont see happening. As long as the training is good then there will not be a problem.

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Originally Posted by Champcar

When Pinnacle starts having accidents with these low timers in the right seat. Which I dont see happening. As long as the training is good then there will not be a problem.

The question will be the percentage that pass the interview, the ckeckride, and the IOE to how the training is and if it is good enough. I hate saying good enough, but if Pinnacle (or anyone) excepts them, then they meet the requirements to fly.

[frog_flyer]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Trust me guys, we know the bad rap we've gotten by the company hiring a lot of spiky haired "frat types." .

spiky haired frat type is an oxymoron

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

"No way could they just put these guys on the line and then kick them off, the union would have a fit"

From JU's marketing:

"This course takes the pilot with no experience through their private, instrument and commercial multi-engine ratings and then into a 675-hour airline internship with a Part 121 carrier"

Do Pinnacle interns normally get a line number?

The way I read it you would do the internship at PCL, in essence, paying for RJ F/O time. You get $20/hr back in pay, "more than twice what a normal CFI makes". I would bet after your 675, PCL would love to hire you but I bet it's not part of the program. At Gulfstream, there is no promise of a job after your 250.

Would a JU intern accrue seniority?
Would having intern's not on Pinnacle's seniority list violate the pilot groups scope clause?

Somebody needs to email Heath and ask. Pinnacle guys need to talk to their union reps about this.

Just heard back. When you're hired at Pinnacle, you are a full time normal employee. You're a new pilot, with 1 year as probation period just like any other regional. So, it's not an internship really. You are actually a regular pilot and get a normal number on the seniority list, just as any other new pilot at Pinnacle would.


Also, if you dont succeed at the interview the first time, you're given two options. Wait 6 months, and automatically interview again, or, go through sim training again at JetU (free of charge this second time around) and then try the interview again at Pinnacle. So you get more than once chance, if you don't go through the first time.