Am I screwed? - Page 5

DE727UPS · May 31st, 2006, 14:39

"The reason why i didn't refuse the breathlizer is because my FAA Cert. will get suspended automatically for suspicion..."

On what basis? I thought that was for alcohol related driving infractions. Say I was drinking at a bar on a layover and walking back to my room a cop decides to question me. Lets say he decides to do a breath test and I refuse. That makes him mad so he writes me a ticket for disorderly conduct. Do I have to report that or my refusal to take the breath test to the FAA? I think not...

Brazilian_Pilot · May 31st, 2006, 15:25

Whats the moral of my story?

DONT CAMP IN INDIANA!!

SUSPilot · May 31st, 2006, 20:39

Something that I am not proud of, and have never talked about on this board is that about two years ago I got pulled over on suspiction of driving while under the influence of intoxicants. I made a bad decision on driving after I had a few drinks at a bar with people from work on Labor Day Weekend (It was one of the few weekends that we would be off as flight instructors since our airport was essentially closed for an airshow). Leaving the bar I got pulled over and after field sobriety tests I was arrested. When I got to the police station I refused the breatalizer test (btw the one the FARs are referring to has to do with while operating an aircraft). Considering the charge I obviously hired an attorney, and when I went to court, I was offered a suspended imposition of sentence, two years probation, participation in SATOP, attendence at a MADD meeting, 96 hours of community service, and two days of shock time (essentially you spend 48 hours in a work release center). The community service and shock time were due to my refusal of the breathalizer.

When it came time to interview with the airlines, it was something that was absolutly on my mind, but to be honest with you I had four interviews while I was looking for jobs. Two with the company I work for now, One for a very large regional that is discussed on this board fairly often, and one with a turboprop only regional. In all of the interviews, I was only asked about it once (the time I got hired by the company I now work for), and I was also offered a job by one of the other companies I applied to. The other one told me I needed more experience and suggested that I take a CRJ course such as the one offered by ATP.

I don't want to sound like it is no big deal, because it is, but it is not the kiss of death that some people make it sound like it is. Most importantly at this point is how you can show that you learned from your situation. Remember that you are not going to put that you got a MIC, MIP, or DUI on your resume, so likely the first time that they will even know about it is when you are at the interview. Just be honest, and don't lie. I have seen first hand what would happen if you lie, because when my background check came back, it showed two arrests not one arrest for DUI. What had happened was that when I showed up for the shock time they process you like anyone else that is going into jail, and the date that happened also showed up as a DUI arrest until my probation is complete. I had to produce the court paperwork proving that was what this second "arrest" was before they would give me my badge, and had I not had proof, I would have been fired not for the DUI but for lieing on my application. So even though it is a big deal, it is not the end of the world.

frog_flyer · May 31st, 2006, 20:50

the chick that taught my alcohol course said go ahead and blow. (this is texas) we have mandatory license revokation and apparently it can be worse than just taking a dui.

solution? DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE.

thats probably the only intelligent thing i've done since graduating high school.
Its not worth the risk. Plus, its an excuse to shack

SteveC · May 31st, 2006, 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUSPilot

Something that I am not proud of, and have never talked about on this board....

SUSPilot, thank you very much for telling that story. True-life stories are always the most powerful and instructive and I appreciate the effort it took for you to type that one out. You didn't need to, yet you helped a lot of other people by doing so.

Extra brownie points for you today.

Brazilian_Pilot · May 31st, 2006, 23:04

Thank you so much for telling your story SUSpilot. Before reading your post i felt like I was the only one who made a mistake. Thank you everyone for sharing your views on my situation. You guys helped me make the decision to hire an attorney and try to put this headache to rest.

I have a question though; If the judge dismisses the case will my arrest show up on a background check??

Killtron2000 · May 31st, 2006, 23:31

You should just say your daddy hits you and your mommy is always drunk and daddy hits mommy too. Play the pity card dude.

RynoB · June 1st, 2006, 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

So what about native americans? They take peyote (sp) which is either opium,heroin or cocaine. Native americans uses this (legally) in religious ceremonies to induce a drug like state to commune with their Gods!

I'm not sure about the laws in this case, but do they only use it on their reservations. Tribes are also considered nations, such as the Cherokee Nation or Cheyenne Nation. The U.S. originally gave them nation status in order to make and break treaties with them. I don't know if they are able to make their own laws though. Sorry to hijack, but it just got me thinking (lookout)

Killtron2000 · June 1st, 2006, 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by RynoB

I'm not sure about the laws in this case, but do they only use it on their reservations. Tribes are also considered nations, such as the Cherokee Nation or Cheyenne Nation. The U.S. originally gave them nation status in order to make and break treaties with them. I don't know if they are able to make their own laws though. Sorry to hijack, but it just got me thinking (lookout)

Peyote is a cactus, but there is another legal hallucinogen more powerful then acid it's called salvia divinorum.

Theotokos · June 1st, 2006, 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertdog71

You are not screwed until convicted.

Yes, innocent until proven guilty. There are legal ways out of this...get a lawyer by all means. Good luck not matter what though.

Minnesota_Flyer · June 1st, 2006, 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazilian_Pilot

I have a question though; If the judge dismisses the case will my arrest show up on a background check??

The arrest probably will show on a background check. But it is unlikely that an airline will hold an arrest against you if there is no conviction.

Brazilian_Pilot · June 1st, 2006, 14:20

I hope i dont get convicted for a .007 bac while peacefully camping.

meritflyer · June 2nd, 2006, 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

"The reason why i didn't refuse the breathlizer is because my FAA Cert. will get suspended automatically for suspicion..."

On what basis? I thought that was for alcohol related driving infractions. Say I was drinking at a bar on a layover and walking back to my room a cop decides to question me. Lets say he decides to do a breath test and I refuse. That makes him mad so he writes me a ticket for disorderly conduct. Do I have to report that or my refusal to take the breath test to the FAA? I think not...

FAA Chief Counsel Opinions -

"Where there is a suspension of a driver's license for failure to submit to a chemical test, when an airman is arrested for driving while under the influence or alchol and/or drug abuse, and the airman subsequently pleads guilty to "reckless operation" and has his license suspended for refusal to take the test, the airman does not have to report the "reckless operation" conviction under 61.15(c)(1), but must, under 61.15(c)(2) report the license suspension.

If an airman has refused to submit to the request for an alcohol test and his or her driver's license is suspended for such refusal, even if the airman is subsequently acuuitted on the underlying charge for alcohol- or drug-related operation of a motor vehicle, the administrative liscense or revocation would be considered a "motor vehicle action" and must be reported under 61.15".

So, sounds like if you arent in a car, you are okay.

amorris311 · June 2nd, 2006, 02:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazilian_Pilot

I hope i dont get convicted for a .007 bac while peacefully camping.

i know that you said it was a stupid decision, BUT and i mean but keep your mouth shut tight once in court and let your lawyer do all of the talking. my mom when she first became a judge said that so many people killed themselves by telling "their side" and would contradict themselves without knowing it. she said it was hard to let them off when the walk all over their own words. some advice if you can spend 40,000 dollars on flight lessons you can afford an attorney to help you get out of your mess. i dont want to sound like a parent but i lost a close buddy of mine to a drunk driver who only blew a 0.12bac. im not saying you are a bad person we all make mistakes, but please think twice before doing it nothing is that important to get behind the wheel. secondly i never heard of a passtest that shows up anything past the one thousandth mark but i guess you learn somehting new everyday.

WestIndian425 · June 2nd, 2006, 02:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killtron2000

You should just say your daddy hits you and your mommy is always drunk and daddy hits mommy too. Play the pity card dude.

LOL!! I say be honest and show that you have matured and learned from your mistakes.

Neil

FlyChicaga · June 2nd, 2006, 15:18

Wow, I really am amazed at some of the posts here. Let me put it this way: Most professional pilots have gone to college, and unless they were complete airplane dorks they most likely got in trouble and made some mistakes along the way. Heck, many probably made more mistakes after college. Young adults do lots of stupid stuff, many of which include alcohol. Does that condone the behavior? No. But I know plenty of pilots who have received drinking tickets in college for being under 21 and having alcohol in their system. Permitting 19 year olds into bars but not permitting them to drink? Right, they aren't going to drink when they get inside.

Fact is, people make mistakes. Learning from those mistakes is the important thing. You'll just need to be honest with yourself, and honest with your interviewers, when it comes time to look for a job. Yes, you hung out with your buddies and had some beers out camping when under 21, just like 50-75% of kids your age. You weren't in a car, you weren't breaking things, you weren't causing a ruckus. You were trying to go pee when an cop decided it was time to flex his muscles and be a total dickweed. Figures, rural Indiana.

Don't worry about it so much, just take the legal steps necessary to ensure you don't get racked by the system, and stay out of trouble from now on. Learn from the mistake, and move on. Life is not over, and your career is not over. Just be honest about it when the time comes, and make sure you are ready to explain how you really learned from it... not some canned response out of an interview guide.

I at least hope it was good beer and not Keystone Light!!

Edit: One more thing... don't lock yourself in the house and work your tail off all summer in fear because of this. Enjoy summer, this is the best time of the year, so don't spoil it! Things will get worked out. You are 20 years old, and this is the time you need to be out with your buddies chasing girls in bikinis up and down the pool! Just don't do it drunk... until you're 21.

Brazilian_Pilot · June 27th, 2006, 11:38

Just so u guys know I did not get convicted nor charged with anything I entered a Pretrial Diversion program meaning im on supervision for a year and have to take alcohol class then my charges will be dropped.

I guess after many headaches and $600 I can sleep again

Texasspilot · June 27th, 2006, 11:43

after 12 months you can sleep again...congrats with the getout of jail free card...now don't screw it up!

Kristie · June 27th, 2006, 13:38

yea.. don't go lax during your supervisory period!! in fact, do what you can to not even get a speeding ticket!!

glad they gave you a choice...make sure to check with your attorney on getting everything expunged afterwards!!

FiveO · June 27th, 2006, 14:11

Good to hear everything was okay in the end. There has been so much going on in the courts system lately, that to be honest with you, they dont have time to deal with people like you. (That is a good thing) The crime going on now is just, "wow".

I would say take this as a learning experience and avoid this in the future. But I am not going to because that was a BS charge by a miserable cop. Once again glad that everything was okay.

Brazilian_Pilot · June 27th, 2006, 19:12

Yeah for you guys thinking of going out GETTING WASTED GOING CRAZy. its not worth the headaches I barelly did anything and look at how much I spent and worried...

Im not gonna trully relax until after the 12th month but i'm just happy to know that i can still keep going on trying to accomplish my dream.....

E_Dawg · June 27th, 2006, 19:35

Now go relax with a cold one - you just beat the system!

congrats on getting off though

amorris311 · June 27th, 2006, 22:40

good deal man. just like the rest of the posts dont mess it up u never get a third chance.

SharkFisher · June 28th, 2006, 00:21

Ok hopefully this will be the last post on this topic. I was curious as to why I saw this one appear on the board. Never thought it was going to be a happy ending. The first time I read your post I was shaking my head feeling really bad for you. I care so much about my future that when I see a cop at a vascar line I get that feeling in my stomach "that's it i am screwed". That's how much I care. So Mr. Brazilian Pilot it seemed like you were almost getting ready to give up a few days ago. Now, since you got out of the mess, congrats by the way, go back and see how much you care.

amorris311 · June 28th, 2006, 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDP

I wouldn't be too worried about this there are a ton of major pilots with DUI's.

are there really? i thought that was a bozo no no and that you would lose your job for stuff like that.

May 31st, 2006, 14:39	#101
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,577	Re: Am I screwed? "The reason why i didn't refuse the breathlizer is because my FAA Cert. will get suspended automatically for suspicion..." On what basis? I thought that was for alcohol related driving infractions. Say I was drinking at a bar on a layover and walking back to my room a cop decides to question me. Lets say he decides to do a breath test and I refuse. That makes him mad so he writes me a ticket for disorderly conduct. Do I have to report that or my refusal to take the breath test to the FAA? I think not...

May 31st, 2006, 15:25	#102
Brazilian_Pilot Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago Suburbs, IL 1C5 (Clow) Posts: 314	Re: Am I screwed? Whats the moral of my story? DONT CAMP IN INDIANA!!

May 31st, 2006, 20:39	#103
SUSPilot Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Baseball City, USA Posts: 367	Re: Am I screwed? Something that I am not proud of, and have never talked about on this board is that about two years ago I got pulled over on suspiction of driving while under the influence of intoxicants. I made a bad decision on driving after I had a few drinks at a bar with people from work on Labor Day Weekend (It was one of the few weekends that we would be off as flight instructors since our airport was essentially closed for an airshow). Leaving the bar I got pulled over and after field sobriety tests I was arrested. When I got to the police station I refused the breatalizer test (btw the one the FARs are referring to has to do with while operating an aircraft). Considering the charge I obviously hired an attorney, and when I went to court, I was offered a suspended imposition of sentence, two years probation, participation in SATOP, attendence at a MADD meeting, 96 hours of community service, and two days of shock time (essentially you spend 48 hours in a work release center). The community service and shock time were due to my refusal of the breathalizer. When it came time to interview with the airlines, it was something that was absolutly on my mind, but to be honest with you I had four interviews while I was looking for jobs. Two with the company I work for now, One for a very large regional that is discussed on this board fairly often, and one with a turboprop only regional. In all of the interviews, I was only asked about it once (the time I got hired by the company I now work for), and I was also offered a job by one of the other companies I applied to. The other one told me I needed more experience and suggested that I take a CRJ course such as the one offered by ATP. I don't want to sound like it is no big deal, because it is, but it is not the kiss of death that some people make it sound like it is. Most importantly at this point is how you can show that you learned from your situation. Remember that you are not going to put that you got a MIC, MIP, or DUI on your resume, so likely the first time that they will even know about it is when you are at the interview. Just be honest, and don't lie. I have seen first hand what would happen if you lie, because when my background check came back, it showed two arrests not one arrest for DUI. What had happened was that when I showed up for the shock time they process you like anyone else that is going into jail, and the date that happened also showed up as a DUI arrest until my probation is complete. I had to produce the court paperwork proving that was what this second "arrest" was before they would give me my badge, and had I not had proof, I would have been fired not for the DUI but for lieing on my application. So even though it is a big deal, it is not the end of the world. __________________ SUSPilot CFI CFII CFMEI CASEL, CAMEL, IA AGI

May 31st, 2006, 20:50	#104
frog_flyer Old Skool Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: FTW Posts: 4,092	Re: Am I screwed? the chick that taught my alcohol course said go ahead and blow. (this is texas) we have mandatory license revokation and apparently it can be worse than just taking a dui. solution? DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE. thats probably the only intelligent thing i've done since graduating high school. Its not worth the risk. Plus, its an excuse to shack __________________ "There needs to be more drinking here on JC. We need more ******* partying!" -Doug Taylor 260TT 25 ME

May 31st, 2006, 23:04	#106
Brazilian_Pilot Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago Suburbs, IL 1C5 (Clow) Posts: 314	Re: Am I screwed? Thank you so much for telling your story SUSpilot. Before reading your post i felt like I was the only one who made a mistake. Thank you everyone for sharing your views on my situation. You guys helped me make the decision to hire an attorney and try to put this headache to rest. I have a question though; If the judge dismisses the case will my arrest show up on a background check??

May 31st, 2006, 23:31	#107
Killtron2000 Old Skool Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Prime Universe Posts: 1,638	Re: Am I screwed? You should just say your daddy hits you and your mommy is always drunk and daddy hits mommy too. Play the pity card dude. __________________ This is a signature, fear it.

June 1st, 2006, 14:20	#112
Brazilian_Pilot Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago Suburbs, IL 1C5 (Clow) Posts: 314	Re: Am I screwed? I hope i dont get convicted for a .007 bac while peacefully camping.

June 2nd, 2006, 15:18	#116
FlyChicaga Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 4,886	Re: Am I screwed? Wow, I really am amazed at some of the posts here. Let me put it this way: Most professional pilots have gone to college, and unless they were complete airplane dorks they most likely got in trouble and made some mistakes along the way. Heck, many probably made more mistakes after college. Young adults do lots of stupid stuff, many of which include alcohol. Does that condone the behavior? No. But I know plenty of pilots who have received drinking tickets in college for being under 21 and having alcohol in their system. Permitting 19 year olds into bars but not permitting them to drink? Right, they aren't going to drink when they get inside. Fact is, people make mistakes. Learning from those mistakes is the important thing. You'll just need to be honest with yourself, and honest with your interviewers, when it comes time to look for a job. Yes, you hung out with your buddies and had some beers out camping when under 21, just like 50-75% of kids your age. You weren't in a car, you weren't breaking things, you weren't causing a ruckus. You were trying to go pee when an cop decided it was time to flex his muscles and be a total dickweed. Figures, rural Indiana. Don't worry about it so much, just take the legal steps necessary to ensure you don't get racked by the system, and stay out of trouble from now on. Learn from the mistake, and move on. Life is not over, and your career is not over. Just be honest about it when the time comes, and make sure you are ready to explain how you really learned from it... not some canned response out of an interview guide. I at least hope it was good beer and not Keystone Light!! Edit: One more thing... don't lock yourself in the house and work your tail off all summer in fear because of this. Enjoy summer, this is the best time of the year, so don't spoil it! Things will get worked out. You are 20 years old, and this is the time you need to be out with your buddies chasing girls in bikinis up and down the pool! Just don't do it drunk... until you're 21. __________________ "Anyone can do the job when things are going right. In this business we play for keeps." Ernest K. Gann

June 27th, 2006, 11:38	#117
Brazilian_Pilot Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago Suburbs, IL 1C5 (Clow) Posts: 314	Re: Am I screwed? Just so u guys know I did not get convicted nor charged with anything I entered a Pretrial Diversion program meaning im on supervision for a year and have to take alcohol class then my charges will be dropped. I guess after many headaches and $600 I can sleep again

June 27th, 2006, 11:43	#118
Texasspilot Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,080	Re: Am I screwed? after 12 months you can sleep again...congrats with the getout of jail free card...now don't screw it up!

June 27th, 2006, 13:38	#119
Kristie Big Chief's Woman Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona Posts: 19,291 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Am I screwed? yea.. don't go lax during your supervisory period!! in fact, do what you can to not even get a speeding ticket!! glad they gave you a choice...make sure to check with your attorney on getting everything expunged afterwards!! __________________ Wife of a Delta B767 ER F/O jetgirls.net

June 27th, 2006, 14:11	#120
FiveO Old Skool Join Date: May 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 2,254	Re: Am I screwed? Good to hear everything was okay in the end. There has been so much going on in the courts system lately, that to be honest with you, they dont have time to deal with people like you. (That is a good thing) The crime going on now is just, "wow". I would say take this as a learning experience and avoid this in the future. But I am not going to because that was a BS charge by a miserable cop. Once again glad that everything was okay.

June 27th, 2006, 19:12	#121
Brazilian_Pilot Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago Suburbs, IL 1C5 (Clow) Posts: 314	Re: Am I screwed? Yeah for you guys thinking of going out GETTING WASTED GOING CRAZy. its not worth the headaches I barelly did anything and look at how much I spent and worried... Im not gonna trully relax until after the 12th month but i'm just happy to know that i can still keep going on trying to accomplish my dream.....

June 27th, 2006, 19:35	#122
E_Dawg Moderator Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: chicago Posts: 4,311	Re: Am I screwed? Now go relax with a cold one - you just beat the system! congrats on getting off though __________________ Yeah, I just stare at my desk; but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch, too. I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work.

June 27th, 2006, 22:40	#123
amorris311 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles soon to be phx Posts: 2,630	Re: Am I screwed? good deal man. just like the rest of the posts dont mess it up u never get a third chance.

June 28th, 2006, 00:21	#124
SharkFisher Junior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: CH PA Posts: 238	Re: Am I screwed? Ok hopefully this will be the last post on this topic. I was curious as to why I saw this one appear on the board. Never thought it was going to be a happy ending. The first time I read your post I was shaking my head feeling really bad for you. I care so much about my future that when I see a cop at a vascar line I get that feeling in my stomach "that's it i am screwed". That's how much I care. So Mr. Brazilian Pilot it seemed like you were almost getting ready to give up a few days ago. Now, since you got out of the mess, congrats by the way, go back and see how much you care.

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