Don't read your C172 manuals on American...

[bert5555]

Absolutely ridiculous!!!

================================================== =====

NEWARK, N.J. May 6, 2006 (AP)— Five airline passengers speaking in foreign languages and carrying "aircraft flight materials" were briefly detained Saturday until authorities determined they were simply returning to their home countries after attending a U.S. helicopter training school.

Fellow passengers on American Airlines Flight 1874, which had departed from Dallas Fort Worth International Airport, became suspicious of the men, said Steven Siegel, a spokesman for the FBI's Newark office.
A federal marshal on the plane notified authorities at Newark Liberty International Airport about the men's behavior.

The men identified only as four Angolan military personnel and an Israeli had attended helicopter training school in Texas, Siegel said.

Police officers from the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which operates the airport, took the men into custody soon after the plane landed around 3:20 p.m., said a Port Authority spokesman.

After being questioned by authorities, the men were released around 6 p.m., Siegel said.

The plane was carrying 121 passengers and five crew members. All other passengers had been released.

[Bandit_Driver]

Paranoid public. I bet if it would have been 4 white guys speaking english, nothing would have happened.

[JohnGalt]

Originally Posted by Bandit_Driver

Paranoid public. I bet if it would have been 4 white guys speaking english, nothing would have happened.

YEAH! I bet nothing would happen too!!

[frog_flyer]

quit crying. better to have 5 guys held back 10 minutes than a plane full of dead people..

if i were anything but white, i'd be on a scholarship. o0o0o0o0o

[Bandit_Driver]

Stop crying about not getting a scholarship. You know all white guys are rich.

I have no problem with the police asking a few questions after a concern is raised, but nearly 3 hours to figure out these guys are in the military from another country. Seems like the system didn't work as well as it should. The system needs to be tweaked with the pax lists.

All I was trying to say these guys fell to stereotypes.
speak foreign language + read helicopter manual = terrorist in the general public's mind.

[BCTAv8r]

Whatever it takes for the American public to get a false sense of security...

[Bandit_Driver]

Originally Posted by BCTAv8r

Whatever it takes for the American public to get a false sense of security...

TSA is all smoke and mirrors

[slushie]

Originally Posted by bert5555

...said Steven Segal...

[flyover]

Originally Posted by Bandit_Driver

All I was trying to say these guys fell to stereotypes.
speak foreign language + read helicopter manual = terrorist in the general public's mind.

Yeah, and where would they get the idea that a group of 4 or 5 foreign men with flight materials might, possibly, be a threat? It's just hard to figure out.

[Airdale]

Better to be safe then sorry. Nobody thought to question those terrorist's when they were receiving flight training prior to 9/11. In today's world man, you never know what can happen. The false sense of security bit is non sense though. People don't want to see 9/11 happen all over again, so call it profiling or whatever you want, but it just has to be expected. If an islamic or middle eastern looking dude jumps on my plane speaking some mumbo jumbo and has a 737 POH in his hand, I think I would mention that to someone. And I think that same middle eastern dude would have to have some thought in his mind like "hmm...maybe I'm asking to be targeted". If you think it might be suspicious, report it. The worst that can happen is the dude has to get stuck somewhere being asked a bunch of questions by law enforcement. He should of thought about that before boarding a plane with a flight manual in his hand.

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by BCTAv8r

Whatever it takes for the American public to get a false sense of security...

[CapnJim]

Perfect, Doug, perfect.
This is 'better safe than sorry' taken to it's most ignorant, mindless, and panicky extreme.
Examples:
I'm going to plate my car with 1/2 inch steel. "Better safe than sorry!"
I'm going to line my yard with barbed witre to keep the elephants out. "Better safe than sorry!"
I'm going to walk around in a Level 4 hazmat suit to avoid ebola. "Better safe then sorry!"
Rather than take two seconds to read the word "helicopter" on the "flight materials", and another two seconds to check documents, I'm going to detain these perfectly innocent men for three hours, forcing them to miss thier flight and have to spend the night in a Newark hotel, for no net security gain whatsoever. "Better safe than sorry!"

[pilot602]

Originally Posted by Airdale

Better to be safe then sorry. Nobody thought to question those terrorist's when they were receiving flight training prior to 9/11. In today's world man, you never know what can happen. The false sense of security bit is non sense though. People don't want to see 9/11 happen all over again, so call it profiling or whatever you want, but it just has to be expected. If an islamic or middle eastern looking dude jumps on my plane speaking some mumbo jumbo and has a 737 POH in his hand, I think I would mention that to someone. And I think that same middle eastern dude would have to have some thought in his mind like "hmm...maybe I'm asking to be targeted". If you think it might be suspicious, report it. The worst that can happen is the dude has to get stuck somewhere being asked a bunch of questions by law enforcement. He should of thought about that before boarding a plane with a flight manual in his hand.

Well along this line of thining we better suspend everyone's drivers license that has ever had any kind of ticket. Hell that's no good enough let's throw in jail any one who has ever had a ticket. I mean it's obvious they've shown disrespect for the law and by extension the country by violating traffic laws so who are they to live a normal life? They should have thought about that before going 1mph over the speed limit.

Blind ignorance does not equal safety.

[Sprint100]

I really don't blame them, you would think the govt., or somebody, would train them on what to look for. I'm sure if one of us were aboard we could've distinguished what they were reading and make the proper judgement call.

[Sprint100]

Originally Posted by Airdale

The worst that can happen is the dude has to get stuck somewhere being asked a bunch of questions by law enforcement.

Or he could reach for his wallet and get shot shot 20 times

[AP2B]

I bet if it would have been 4 white guys speaking english, nothing would have happened.

Duh

3 hours to figure out these guys are in the military from another country. Seems like the system didn't work as well as it should. The system needs to be tweaked with the pax lists.
All I was trying to say these guys fell to stereotypes.
speak foreign language + read helicopter manual = terrorist in the general public's mind.

How is the TSA progressing with that list of all approved foreign fighters throughout the globe?

Originally Posted by BCTAv8r
Whatever it takes for the American public to get a false sense of security...
TSA is all smoke and mirrors

Wouldn't a false sense of security and "smoke and mirrors" be NOT detaining and questioning these pax?

Damn, 3 hours to figure out they were legit. Angolan military with an Israeli. Man, that's just unacceptable! COME ON PEEPS! I've spent 3 hours trying to take care of buisness at the BMV!

But yeah, Inside where it all matters. It really tears me up that a group of passengers thought they perceived a possible threat and involved the TSA to check it out. All while subjecting these foreigners to a three hour wait.

[KLB]

Something quite similar happened to one of my students heading back to India about a month ago. I think he had his headsets and instrument approach plates in his carry on and was stopped by TSA during the screening. He was allowed to board and then was escorted off the plane right before push back. He then was taken to a room and questioned for about three hours. They asked what he was doing in the United States and asked him all kinds of questions about the instrument approach plates. He said it felt like he was in the oral on another instrument checkride. Like TSA knew anything about approach plates.

There was another instance that happened, before I started working at the place that I am at now, when some students were down in SEP getting BBQ when they found themselves late gettting back to the flight school(which is northeast of SEP). They kind of rushed back to airport and hopped in the plane in hurry and someone decided that they were terrorist and heading for crawford ranch (which is southeast of SEP). When they landed at the school, they had sherriff deputies, FBI, INS, and you name waiting on them.

Another time........when some of our students went to Las Vegas to get there seaplane rating were stopped, detained, and question for speaking in their native tongue.

One of our former instructors, who is now in training at ExpressJet, was questioned a couple of months ago for taking pictures in a public viewing area at DFW because someone thought him and his friend were suspucious for talking in their native tongue. They are Italian.

I've told the students over and over again to speak English to each other because it makes them look a little less suspicious when they are on these cross countries. IF not, it will happen to them over and over again. I've explained to them that there things that even I just don't do because it could make me suspicious and I'd end up being questioned..... It's just the way it is. Do I like it? NO! But for now, it's how it is.

I've even joked with them sometimes, by thanking them for taking the heat off of me.

[khysanth]

I'm white and I had a full-ride.

[mpenguin1]

Originally Posted by Bandit_Driver

Paranoid public. I bet if it would have been 4 white guys speaking english, nothing would have happened.

Whole new world, had this been prior to 9/11, nobody would have paid them the time of day.

[Ramsey]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

I think the girl in the second row (far right) might have a nervous twitch!

[mpenguin1]

Originally Posted by BCTAv8r

Whatever it takes for the American public to get a false sense of security...

Yes, or we can go back to the days before the TSA when people are scared to fly...

[Aero_Engineer]

Just crazy and nasty racial profiling. I bet if it was a blonde haired American middle aged man with the pilot must have "moustache" of his reading the same material while sipping on his Jack & Coke no one would absolutely CARE.
WHY?
Becasue we always think we are the GOOD GUYS!!!! Ya right.

[mpenguin1]

Originally Posted by Aero_Engineer

Just crazy and nasty racial profiling. I bet if it was a blonde haired American middle aged man with the pilot must have "moustache" of his reading the same material while sipping on his Jack & Coke no one would absolutely CARE.
WHY?
Becasue we always think we are the GOOD GUYS!!!! Ya right.

The only bad guys are the stupid terrorists that have changed the way we think.

Yes, had the same group of people had blonde hair with blue eyes, the passengers would have never given them a 2nd thought, yet, none of the 9/11 terrorist had blonde hair.

One of my pilots right after 9/11 went across the border to Mexico for some fun, he had about $1200 US dollar in his pocket, when he crossed the border to Mexico, he had a one time entry visa into the United Stated.

When he tried to enter back into the US, he was detained, and they asked what was he doing, he said that he was in the US for Flight Training, oh yeah, he had a Saudi Passport.

Had something like this happened prior to 9/11, he would have probably gotten a slap on the hand, since it happened after 9/11, he was in jail for about a week.

[Chris_Ford]

Originally Posted by Aero_Engineer

Just crazy and nasty racial profiling. I bet if it was a blonde haired American middle aged man with the pilot must have "moustache" of his reading the same material while sipping on his Jack & Coke no one would absolutely CARE.
WHY?
Becasue we always think we are the GOOD GUYS!!!! Ya right.

It's just as classless for you to blame white people as it is for white people to blame brown people.

[SUSPilot]

Back when I was interviewing for jobs. I got the special check on a trip down to Atlanta to interview with ASA. The TSA agent looked in my overnight bag which had logbooks, an airplane POH, an ATP written study guide, and the letter from ASA inviting me to interveiw. And the guy questioned why I had the stuff in my bag.