Don't read your C172 manuals on American...

[tonyw]

Originally Posted by Airdale

Yeah you guys are right, we should just get rid of TSA and airport security all together, since it really doesn't do anything anyway.

I'd be all for that. Does the current screening regime really do anything? I don't think it does. Now, if we had puffers to detect explosives, that'd be something I'd be all for. They had that at the CN Tower in Toronto, no reason why it couldn't be in an airport.

Originally Posted by Airdale

I mean really, we as human beings, reguardless of race or religion, don't deserved to be questioned for anything we are not guilty of.

So glad you've read the bill of rights and those requirements for probable cause and prohibitions against unreasonable search and seizure.

Originally Posted by Airdale

Seriously though, the government is silly for thinking that knowledge on how to fly aircraft is considered dangerous.

I'm glad you see that. I mean, after all, AOPA has what, 400K members, all of whom know how to fly airplanes? It'd be a real bitch to lock all those people up.

Originally Posted by Airdale

I mean the reality is that we are America, and we are a free country. People should be free to do whatever they want. Whether they are American or not, they should be free to read whatever they want, whenever they want and do what ever they want. Thats what being free is right?

Glad to see you understand what freedom means and that you don't want us to live in a world like 1984.

Originally Posted by Airdale

And I find it tremendously stupid that we profile and question those that resemble the same people who killed thousands of our innocent citizens with their knowledge on how to fly airplanes into the ground. It really is ashame that we as Americans profile these people

I can't tell if you're saying we should be ashamed or if you're saying it is a shame. Either one does fit. Because Israelis and Angolans didn't hijack those planes. Hell, man, those jihadists hate Israelis almost as much as they hate the United States.

I'm glad you have seen the light, and you understand why things like being able to think what you want and why being free of unreasonable searches and seizures and free to know how to fly an airplane is so important. I'm glad you understand that profiling an Israeli is just plain stupid.

Otherwise, you would hate the freedoms that make America great, and that would mean you hate America.

[Airdale]

And let me just throw this out there too, because just about every discussion along these lines leads to some sort of racism topic and before I get flammed a "middle class white dude" again.

I am probably the least racist person you would ever meet. I served in the U.S. military along side people from all different races, African Americans, Hispanic Americans, Japanese Americans, German Americans, Chinese Americans, Vietnamese Americans, Indian Americans - you name it, I served with them. Notice the word American? Some of them weren't even U.S. citizens yet. We may have had different uniforms, different backrounds, different skin color, different religions - but we all had the same flag on our sleeve. These service members were and still are, my fellow brothers and sisters. We all served to protect our families and each other from those who seek us harm. I have no prejudice toward any race, I have prejudice towards those non-Americans that hate us and will do anything to kill us. America is the greatest country in the world because of our diversity. I have learned so much about different kinds of people in the military, that it has made me a much better person. But it doesn't change the fact that there are people out there who want you and I and all of our families dead. I think screening people and questioning people is a small price to pay to keep our families safe.

Does TSA really work? I can't say, because I know nothing about the organization other then they are there to protect our passengers. But having some sort of security, is better then none. I rest my case, I'm going to get dinner with some friends, which by the way aren't all white folks.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

I'm sick of people who think that simply because one is white that he never gets stopped for anything ever.


This is no exaggeration:
EVERY flight I have gone on since 9/11, I have been "randomly selected" for secondary screening.

I doubt very many of you have had to do that as many times as I have. BTW, at the busier airports, it gets you through security faster at times [that must be why they're doing it, to help the white man!]

But I guess that must be because I throw up the dub at hockey games

...you get selected for dork screening!

[Chris_Ford]

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

...you get selected for dork screening!

It's funny how jealous you are!

[flyover]

I'm glad you have seen the light, and you understand why things like being able to think what you want and why being free of unreasonable searches and seizures and free to know how to fly an airplane is so important. I'm glad you understand that profiling an Israeli is just plain stupid.

Going a little far there aren't you? How did "think what you want" get in there? And I know that you know that airport security has nothing to do with the 4th Amendment. Flying on airplanes is a voluntary undertaking. Noone is compelled to come to the airport and undergo security screening. As far as "profiling" let's get real. The picture presented by these guys could easily lead to them getting checked out. They were and and then sent on their way. I'll bet the Israeli's feelings weren't hurt, he's been living in the "real world" for a long time.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

It's funny how jealous you are!

Whats funny is that you actually think that I am jealous. I have a signifigant other,got "some" this weekend. And could seriously pull more chicks then you any day and I didn't have to win big on a game show to get either.

[Sprint100]

Originally Posted by flyover

Flying on airplanes is a voluntary undertaking.

Most of the time I think that fact is conveniently left out, kind of like selective amnesia!!!!!!!

[88MPH]

Originally Posted by Bandit_Driver

Paranoid public. I bet if it would have been 4 white guys speaking english, nothing would have happened.

No crap, dude! I'm a white dude. Last year I boarded XYZ airline with the HUGE FREAKIN Instrument/Commercial manual from Jepp! We all know what an attention getter that is! I hand carried it through TSA, past the gate, past the CAPTAIN even, and read it the entire flight, along with some approach plates. Picked up my baggage with it under my arm.

Not a word!

Go figure. By the way, how you doin', Mr. McVay?

[tonyw]

Originally Posted by flyover

Going a little far there aren't you? How did "think what you want" get in there? And I know that you know that airport security has nothing to do with the 4th Amendment. Flying on airplanes is a voluntary undertaking. Noone is compelled to come to the airport and undergo security screening. As far as "profiling" let's get real. The picture presented by these guys could easily lead to them getting checked out. They were and and then sent on their way. I'll bet the Israeli's feelings weren't hurt, he's been living in the "real world" for a long time.

You're right, he said read whatever they want. Not think. And you know what, other than a few things that are classified he's right. You should be allowed to read what you want. If I want to read the Communist Manifesto, or Mein Kampf, it should be my right. In fact, it IS my right.

Flying on airplanes is not a constitutionally guaranteed right, and you do give up some privacy to do it. However, to detain military personnel of friendly foreign governments for hours while questioning them about the manuals of the aircraft they are being trained on is ridiculous. You do agree on that, don't you?

It brings to mind the story about how the TSA or FAA rejected a German fighter pilots request to fly his glider. This German was flying around in a foreign supersonic fighter with missiles and cannon, yet his application to fly his glider was rejected.

I am all for security measures that will actually do something to make us more secure, such as explosive detection puffers and screening cargo to make sure there are no bombs. What I am not for are things like this, which take away time and energy that could be focused on real threats.

[SmitteyB]

Originally Posted by frog_flyer

quit crying. better to have 5 guys held back 10 minutes than a plane full of dead people..

if i were anything but white, i'd be on a scholarship. o0o0o0o0o

:-)

[flyover]

You should be allowed to read what you want. If I want to read the Communist Manifesto, or Mein Kampf, it should be my right. In fact, it IS my right.

Yeah, I get your rights. I know you know about the T-shirt problems, and stopping passengers from "reading" or displaying sexually offensive material where their seatmates could see. One guy was a pathologist and was going over his work which was pictures of dissected, nude bodies. He had his "right" to that restricted until back on the ground. I would guess that if someone pulled out an illustrated copy of How to Hijack an Airliner and Fly It Into a Building paperback version, then they might have some splainin' to do. It's pretty amazing how many "rights" get restricted by deciding you want to exercise the "right" to travel through the air in a narrow aluminum tube with dozens or hundreds of strangers.

However, to detain military personnel of friendly foreign governments for hours while questioning them about the manuals of the aircraft they are being trained on is ridiculous. You do agree on that, don't you?

Of course not. I think you are admitting facts not in evidence. Not sure they detained them for hours of questioning about their manuals. I had that happen to me, but it was an FAA oral. If the story is right it took them about 3 hours to confirm they weren't a security problem. A bit slow maybe. But I don't see where there's a problem checking these guys out.

It brings to mind the story about how the TSA or FAA rejected a German fighter pilots request to fly his glider. This German was flying around in a foreign supersonic fighter with missiles and cannon, yet his application to fly his glider was rejected.

Hey, I'm not saying these guys are rocket scientists. They are government bureaucrats after all. Besides I'm more concerned about these:
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/0....jjazoykq.html

I am all for security measures that will actually do something to make us more secure, such as explosive detection puffers and screening cargo to make sure there are no bombs. What I am not for are things like this, which take away time and energy that could be focused on real threats.

Well I guess everyone can't be so sanguine about 9/11 style attacks never happening again because "they are too smart" for that. The fact is that the worst attack on our own soil was carried out by boarding groups of arab muslims on airplanes and using them for missles. 3,000 people died. It seems pretty stupid to me to put that little piece of information in the "glad that won't happen again" file and do nothing.

I'm a big critic of government in general and the TSA. But I have a feeling that with you they can't ever do anything right. And the worse sin seems to be that someone might get delayed or (gasp) profiled. It will probably take the nuke attack but I imagine the time is coming that even you will stop worrying about hurting someone's feelings.

[kellwolf]

Here's what I don't get. If these guys pulled off the plane were black, the NAACP would be all over it. Since they were of Arabic-ish nationality, it's okay in the eyes of the public. I'm not saying the terraists are not going to hijack planes again, but with the hightened public awareness against Arabs, they'll probably use people of a lighter skin. You know, the ones that no one would question if they were reading flying materials on a plane. As it is right now, you might not be able to get someone of Arab descent on the plane with what was needed, but a white guy could stroll on with next to no questions asked. That is unless he's 6'2" with a shaved head carrying a copy of "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich." Oh wait, that's when the TSA stopped ME.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Here's what I don't get. If these guys pulled off the plane were black, the NAACP would be all over it. Since they were of Arabic-ish nationality, it's okay in the eyes of the public. I'm not saying the terraists are not going to hijack planes again, but with the hightened public awareness against Arabs, they'll probably use people of a lighter skin. You know, the ones that no one would question if they were reading flying materials on a plane. As it is right now, you might not be able to get someone of Arab descent on the plane with what was needed, but a white guy could stroll on with next to no questions asked. That is unless he's 6'2" with a shaved head carrying a copy of "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich." Oh wait, that's when the TSA stopped ME.

Did you just watch FlightPlan too,I want 98 mins of my life back!

[kellwolf]

Actually, I've never seen that movie. Is that a good thing?

[frog_flyer]

i always travel with approach charts and poh's in my bag.. duh..

i also tie a red head band around my head to help clear my ears.

i also find that reciting the koran helps me concentrate.

never had any problems with skybabysitters, f/a's or anyone.