Don't read your C172 manuals on American...

[ColMustard]

The optimistic side of me hopes that there was more to the story than paranoid pax that saw "stereotypical terrorists" (if there is such a thing) reading airplane manuals.

The realistic side of me doesn't underestimate how overly dramatic the general public can get. I'm starting to wonder who is in charge of the aircraft during flight nowadays. The pilots or the marshals?

-ColM

[flyover]

Originally Posted by Airdale

Nobody thought to question those terrorist's when they were receiving flight training prior to 9/11.

Well a couple of instructors fingered Moussaoui at the risk of their jobs.

[BCTAv8r]

Originally Posted by mpenguin1

Yes, or we can go back to the days before the TSA when people are scared to fly...

The TSA is eye-candy at the tax-payer's expense. They search people like crazy and when they are tested for what they are there in the first place, they fail.

[tonyw]

Originally Posted by frog_flyer

quit crying. better to have 5 guys held back 10 minutes than a plane full of dead people..

Because reading a POH makes you a terrorist, right?

Oh, god! This whole website is full a terrarists!

Originally Posted by mpenguin1

Whole new world, had this been prior to 9/11, nobody would have paid them the time of day.

And that's the way it should be today. If you think for one second that al Qaeda is going to try the airplane trick again, you're smoking something that will get your medical yanked.

They are not stupid, which is why they pulled off September 11. They know it won't work.

[jtrain609]

So why haven't I been detained after reading my ATP test prep book on airliners? 'Cause you know, white guys haven't done anything wrong...ever...in the history of the world.

[Chris_Ford]

Originally Posted by John Herreshoff

'Cause you know, white guys haven't done anything wrong...ever...in the history of the world.

I'm sick of people who think that simply because one is white that he never gets stopped for anything ever.


This is no exaggeration:
EVERY flight I have gone on since 9/11, I have been "randomly selected" for secondary screening.

I doubt very many of you have had to do that as many times as I have. BTW, at the busier airports, it gets you through security faster at times [that must be why they're doing it, to help the white man!]

But I guess that must be because I throw up the dub at hockey games

[JEP]

Originally Posted by tonyw

Because reading a POH makes you a terrorist, right?

Oh, god! This whole website is full a terrarists!



And that's the way it should be today. If you think for one second that al Qaeda is going to try the airplane trick again, you're smoking something that will get your medical yanked.

They are not stupid, which is why they pulled off September 11. They know it won't work.

Usually I don't get involved in the political back and forth, but the question has not been asked yet.......................


TonyW, Why Do You Hate America?

p.s.....you still up for the condo thing in Vegas? I have to find out what they want to reserve it. I know it's early, but better to get ti locked up now than stuck in a hotel room.

[PGT]

now this would be creepy:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...e.asp?ID=14249

i *think* i was sent to a extensive search at LHR last summer just cause I spoke a diff. language since all the people that got moved aside were non-english speaking.

[flyover]

Originally Posted by tonyw

They are not stupid, which is why they pulled off September 11. They know it won't work.

Not stupid, insane. And persistent. Here's some history on the start of jihad with the US.

Thomas Jefferson and John Adams, then serving as American ambassadors to France and Britain, respectively, met in 1786 in London with the Tripolitan Ambassador to Britain, Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja. These future American presidents were attempting to negotiate a peace treaty which would spare the United States the ravages of jihad piracy—murder, enslavement (with ransoming for redemption), and expropriation of valuable commercial assets—emanating from the Barbary states (modern Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, and Libya, known collectively in Arabic as the Maghrib). During their discussions, they questioned Ambassador Adja as to the source of the unprovoked animus directed at the nascent United States republic. Jefferson and Adams, in their subsequent report to the Continental Congress, recorded the Tripolitan Ambassador’s justification:

… that it was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman [Muslim] who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...e.asp?ID=22314

[tonyw]

Originally Posted by flyover

Not stupid, insane. And persistent.

Sure, they're insane. But they are smart.

Which is why they won't try the airplane trick again. It will not succeed -- hell, even on that day, the fourth one didn't succeed.

So when there are other vulnerabilities to exploit, why go back to trying the same thing again?

They are evil but they are too smart to do it again.

[Chris_Ford]

Originally Posted by tonyw

Sure, they're insane. But they are smart.

Which is why they won't try the airplane trick again. It will not succeed -- hell, even on that day, the fourth one didn't succeed.

So when there are other vulnerabilities to exploit, why go back to trying the same thing again?

They are evil but they are too smart to do it again.

The next thing they do will probably involve blowing up a PAX airliner, I just have this feeling. It's one of the few things that still is sort of overlooked in security, I think.

Edit: also with the reinforcing cockpit doors, it seems like it keeps people OUT, but it'll also keep people IN. Who knows if someone is going through all the flight training, just waiting to get on an airline, and then all of a sudden, one day, this plan goes to action and the people in the back are helpless. Pure speculation, of course.

[tonyw]

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

The next thing they do will probably involve blowing up a PAX airliner, I just have this feeling. It's one of the few things that still is sort of overlooked in security, I think.

Exactly. So, while you and I are taking off our shoes in the terminal, and people with POHs for helicopters are getting detained for questioning as are people who sing along to the Clash on a cabride over to the airport, guess what's happening?

The cargo that's going into the belly of the airplane is passing through unscreened.

[BCTAv8r]

Just imagine how many ground workers and others working for the airline/airport can cooperate to get explosives into an aircraft and etc. It is nearly impossible to prevent something from happening the way I see it.

Something needs to be done about the TSA. We complain that tax dollars are being wasted in "insert government program here" but overlook the ineffectiveness of the TSA.

[Bandit_Driver]

Originally Posted by BCTAv8r

Just imagine how many ground workers and others working for the airline/airport can cooperate to get explosives into an aircraft and etc. It is nearly impossible to prevent something from happening the way I see it.

Something needs to be done about the TSA. We complain that tax dollars are being wasted in "insert government program here" but overlook the ineffectiveness of the TSA.

That is the entire problem with Lowest Bidder. I think a better program would be actually have the police department run aiport security. All you would need to do is hire more police and let them work the streets one day and the airport the next. Nobody gets boared and you would then actually have a qualified person taking care of this and that takes their job seriously. If they have to, they can raise ticket prices a few bucks to pay for the cops salary. If the public complains, tough. Freedom and Security are not FREE.

I have seen police dogs that are smarter than some of the TSA people

[SeanD]

I was in L.A last week for work and I have finals this week. I brought some of my books to study. I was affraid to study because I wasnt sure how people would look at it. I mean here is a guy sitting by himself in the terminal or on the airplane looking at " The Private Pilots Handook" with all sorts of figures and diagrams. I made the decision to hold off until I was away from the plane and airport.

[Bandit_Driver]

Don't cower to public pressure. If you are not doing anything wrong then go ahead and do it. I have studied many times on a plane without any problems.

[PhilosopherPilot]

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

The next thing they do will probably involve blowing up a PAX airliner, I just have this feeling. It's one of the few things that still is sort of overlooked in security, I think.

Edit: also with the reinforcing cockpit doors, it seems like it keeps people OUT, but it'll also keep people IN. Who knows if someone is going through all the flight training, just waiting to get on an airline, and then all of a sudden, one day, this plan goes to action and the people in the back are helpless. Pure speculation, of course.

Yeah, because the reinforced cockpit doors are a fortress. I guarantee that if someone wants in, be it terrorist or passenger taking the plane from a bad pilot, it can be done. That's why I want to be an FFDO, so when the door does crash open, I'm not sitting there with just a newspaper and fire extinguisher.

G

[flyover]

Originally Posted by PhilosopherPilot

That's why I want to be an FFDO, so when the door does crash open, I'm not sitting there with just a newspaper and fire extinguisher.

Wait until you see how hard Mineta, with ALPA's blessing, has made it to be a FFDO. You may change your mind.

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by PhilosopherPilot

Yeah, because the reinforced cockpit doors are a fortress. I guarantee that if someone wants in, be it terrorist or passenger taking the plane from a bad pilot, it can be done. That's why I want to be an FFDO, so when the door does crash open, I'm not sitting there with just a newspaper and fire extinguisher.

G

Two words: Crash Axe. I thought about doing the FFDO thing, but after learning all the new hoops you have to jump through, I'm pretty sure a crash axe to the forehead will disable a would-be terrorist as easily as a bullet.

I've got some more insights on the whole cargo screening thing, but since this is still in the General (aka searchable and readable by guests) area, I'll wait for it to get moved to the Lav.

[Red5xwingdriver]

Back to about eight weeks after the Sept.11 terrorist attacks, one of my students told me that he would read his Gleim private pilot manual on the train commute to his job. He told me that people, "looked at him funny", and that he was made to feel bad about doing that publicly, like the attacks were his fault. I told him that he didn't do anything to be ashamed of. I also told him that this is still America, and how the terrorists have won if ironically we don't have the right to read certain things in public because of kneejerk reactions after tragic events. How funny is it though, that the people the flying public relies on (pilots, mechanics, etc) to keep them safe can't be seen reading the same materials that keeps them knowledgable, i.e. safe.

[Chris_Ford]

Originally Posted by PhilosopherPilot

Yeah, because the reinforced cockpit doors are a fortress. I guarantee that if someone wants in, be it terrorist or passenger taking the plane from a bad pilot, it can be done.

Very easily with something in every passenger cabin actually, but before the TSA gets on my butt, I'll shut up

[flyover]

Originally Posted by tonyw

They are evil but they are too smart to do it again.

I really think you are overestimating their intelligence. Remember, OBL's stated objective for 9/11 was to draw the US into invading Afghanistan where we would be slaughtered and dealt a military defeat. Now he spends his days trying to make sure he's not in the sights of a .50 cal sniper rifle.

http://www.military.com/soldiertech/..._M107,,00.html

[tonyw]

Originally Posted by flyover

I really think you are overestimating their intelligence. Remember, OBL's stated objective for 9/11 was to draw the US into invading Afghanistan where we would be slaughtered and dealt a military defeat. Now he spends his days trying to make sure he's not in the sights of a .50 cal sniper rifle.

True, but on the other hand, it does require some intelligence to be able to carry out the attacks in Bali, Madrid, and London while hiding from the world's only superpower.

Remember, they went to the airplanes because we got smart about truck bombs.

[Airdale]

Yeah you guys are right, we should just get rid of TSA and airport security all together, since it really doesn't do anything anyway. And while we're at it, we should hand out information on how to fly airplanes in flyers in the seat backs. We should probably pay some sort of compensation funds to anyone who's ever been questioned by the government or law enforcement too, its wrong to be questioned when your innocent. I mean really, we as human beings, reguardless of race or religion, don't deserved to be questioned for anything we are not guilty of.

Seriously though, the government is silly for thinking that knowledge on how to fly aircraft is considered dangerous. What are they thinking? We should over throw our government for such silly narrow-minded thinking. Airplanes as weapons?
I mean the reality is that we are America, and we are a free country. People should be free to do whatever they want. Whether they are American or not, they should be free to read whatever they want, whenever they want and do what ever they want. Thats what being free is right?

And I find it tremendously stupid that we profile and question those that resemble the same people who killed thousands of our innocent citizens with their knowledge on how to fly airplanes into the ground. It really is ashame that we as Americans profile these people. They should be treated like every other person in America. In fact, we should upgrade all of their tickets to first class for no extra charge. Maybe even let them fly jumpseat. The only race that we should be questioning are white folks, because these people are crazy. They really are our biggest threat,they are all racist as anything too. We should be questioning them for 5 hours so that they miss their flight. We should either profile everyone or no one right? Can't leave anybody out now can we?

And actually now that I really think this out, I just think we should just leave the airlines alone, I mean what are the chances that the same thing that happened at 9/11 will happen again? I think next time they will attack us by dropping hamsters, gerbils and ferret's on our beaches. I think we should interrogate anyone who owns a hamster, gerbil or ferret - they might be deadly weapons.

Thanks for opening up my eyes everyone, you've really made me understand how America should be. I'm going to go make a few signs and go picket in front of the white house. I'm thinking of a few slogans, "Eliminate TSA!" "Interrogate every airline passenger!" "Bearded white men are terrorists too!" "How to fly an Airplane isn't top secret!" "Terrorists have rights too!" " Who's screening the screeners!?"


Come on people, stop waxing your $50,000 SUV and take a look at reality. Its called modern day warfare...and guess what? Its not nice, and its not fun.These people hate us. They will do anything to kill us. To kill our families. Your family. Your son, your daughter, your mother and father. You think its a game, you think its sad that people who look like those that killed our families, our fellow Americans, were questioned? Where is the sadness for those fellow Americans: white, black, hispanic, german-american, italian-american etc., that are missing family members - mothers, daughters, fathers and sons - whose bodies were never found in the pile of rocks once called the world trade center. Where does this distorted reality come from? Where does this false sense of security that you have come from? CNN? MSNBC? Until the day you have to handle dead bodies that have been crushed, torn and seperated in pieces - you have no idea. Until the day you see a mother in total shock because she can't find her son. Her son that we transported by boat in pieces to be identified. Only then will you realize that this isn't a game. The next attack could be your backyard - because the last one was in mine. And I served my country while cleaning up the mess. I'd rather inconvienience 4 guys for 5 hours then have my family killed by people who despise us because we are free. We might be a free country, but this does not remove our obligation as AMERICANS, reguardless of our race or religion or backround, to DEFEND our country and PROTECT our fellow citizens and most importantly our family members, from those who seek us harm. Why does everything involve race?? We Americans are diverse - that's what makes us great. I love my neighbor and fellow American reguardless of their skin color or religious belief. But I HATE those who try to kill my fellow Americans and threaten my family. Those that fit the terrorist profile, should be questioned. I don't ever want to have to see what I saw on 9/11 ever again.

[SteveC]

You funny!