Airline Pilots (in Australia?)

udhara · May 3rd, 2006, 23:31

Hey ppl,

I'm kind of going through the most critical time of my life right now lol - i've got 10 days to decide what I want to do with my life (i.e submit my uni application lol) a) get a job in the media industry by doing bachelor in digital media b) become a commercial airline pilot by doing the bachelor in aviation at the uni of new south wales in sydney. The most frustrating part though is that even though I have loved airliners since I was around, say...2...many, many people discourage me from persuing a career in aviation. On the other hand, I've got a lot of talent with digital media, buttt...the possible jobs I could get sound pretty boring.

What I would like is for some proper info on becoming a commercial airline pilot (possibly from those who live in australia or middle east?), how long it would take to get a job with a good airline, the benefits, family life, and lifestyle in general, plus anything else that might be useful for me.

Any advice would be really appreciated!

Thanks
Udz

Swen · May 4th, 2006, 00:46

1) Go to school and get a degree in digital media assuming that it interests you.
2) Simultaneously, or as soon as feasible financially, start working on your certificates. Get the private, then instrument and so on...
3) Graduate with your 4 year degree.
4) CFI for a bit
5) Move up

How's that sound?

Aero_Engineer · May 4th, 2006, 00:52

First of all let me welcome you to the board. I hope you will find a lot of answers over here as I did.
I was in your same exact situation two years ago. Every single person in my family was against the fact that I wanted to become a commercial pilot, still most of them sadly feel that way but that did not stop me from doing it. I hopefuly will be a CFI by end of this Fall and will also have a BS in aerospace Engineering.
You have to sit down and think carefully. Would you be willing to be away from your family for days if you become a pilot? Would you study and train hard knowing that possibly you may never get the dream flying job or you may get furloughed? Are you raedy to face te competition that you will have from much experienced pilots that are looking for jobs and will be looking for them in future? Do you have the passion and willingness to fight against the odds and work your way through the steps I this career? Would you be willing to dedicate minimum of 8-10 years until you actually are able to secure a good flying position?
If your answer to these questions are YES then nothing should stop you, once again I am not as experienced as a lot of these guys on this forum but if you want it go ahead and do it and for support you can always come to us here on JC.
Again welcome to the forums and I hope you enjoy the interesting ride that awaits you.

Armen

udhara · May 4th, 2006, 03:36

thanks a lot fellas for your advice

..... well the only thing that seems to be logical right now is to flip a coin or somethin lol.

umm lets c... yep im willing to stay away from my family and dog for days...so long as i get to see them on my off days. umm yeeh i think i'm willing to strive on and know that my dream job may be further than arm's length....i guess i'd sorta be in the same position if i was looking for a decent job in the media industry? and yes I have a burning passion for aviation lol......im such a nerd...when i was a little 3 foot tall kid i never let my poor siblings sit on window seats...cuz i wanted to stare at the frickin flaps and spoilers during takeoff and landing o_O..... beat that ppl lol :P.

soo does anyone else have any additional encouraging/discouraging comments?

I guess there aren't and qantas pilots here huh? or emirates? or sri lankan?

tc
udz

frog_flyer · May 4th, 2006, 03:39

PROCRASTINATOR!!!!!!!!!! WHY THE FHELCLLK DID YOU WAIT TILL 10 ADAYS AHEAD TO MAKE THIS DEICASONSION!?!?

dude fly for qantas

udhara · May 4th, 2006, 04:07

lol because im doing this thing calld foundation year at uni of nsw...its aimed at high schoolers who lived overseas for a long time, most preferably international students...however...since im a local (i.e not international) me and the rest of the local bunch were given our uni apps 3 days ago

...so im NOT a proscrastinator :P

got any reasons as to why fly qantas? srry im just a bucket full o questions at this time right now

udz

udhara · May 4th, 2006, 06:17

i just reread swen's solution....and i wondered...i'll be arnd 20/21 wehn i graduate with digital media....supposing I start getting flight certifications after i graduate...i'll probably be arnd 25-6 ish when i complete all the neccessarry things to get employed by an airline....is that an ok age to get employed by an airline...or is it too late? im clueless !

Timmypig · May 4th, 2006, 06:41

Udhara

I started down the commercial route, but didn't start until my mid-twenties. My BA is from UNSW (the Aviation Degree didn't start at UNSW until around when I graduated). A career in aviation in Oz will NOT require a BAv from UNSW or Swinburne or Griffith or whatever. As it turned out Ansett tanked, and the world turned upside down, just when I was contemplating the jump, so I stayed in IT and I just fly on weekends.

The jury is still out on the usefulness of BAv and similar courses in Australia. The airlines don't need them (I'm sure you've seen QANTAS's website - HSC maths & physics are needed, but no tertiary quals strictly necessary).

The ways to start toward the airlines are: GA bush flyng (C206s etc in Halls Creek, Katherine, Borroloola, Broome, Lake Eyre, etc); GA instructing; or the ADF. The latter requires a ROSO (return of service obligation) or whatever it's called nowadays of up to 10 years, but typically about 12 years before you go back to civvie street.

Mate, dinner is on the table, so I'll post again later. BTW have you checked out PPRuNe's Dunnunder & Godzone forums (fora!!!) yet?

wheelsup · May 4th, 2006, 08:36

Ya'll are lucky - I just found out that being born in AUS doesn't necessarily mean I can become a citizen (or at least from what I can tell from the immigration web site). It looks like I have be born from a parent that was a citizen as well, just having an Australian birth certificate isn't enough.

I was looking to apply to Qantas, too, after converting my licenses.

fly22 · May 4th, 2006, 09:26

PM Minima-No-COntact. He is an FO for a Qantas Jetlink in Perth. The guy has a lot of good info.

The difficutly with Qantas isn't the time needed it is the phsy test and another set of test they put you through. Roughly 80 percent of the candidates fail this.

I was looking at flying over there but accordning to him there are way more opportunities here even with the state of the industry. I do know that Virgin Blue is sizing up as well as Jetstar. However you pay 33,000 for your type rating in a A-320 upon date of hiring.

SeanD · May 4th, 2006, 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by udhara

Hey ppl,

I'm kind of going through the most critical time of my life right now lol - i've got 10 days to decide what I want to do with my life (i.e submit my uni application lol) a) get a job in the media industry by doing bachelor in digital media b) become a commercial airline pilot by doing the bachelor in aviation at the uni of new south wales in sydney. The most frustrating part though is that even though I have loved airliners since I was around, say...2...many, many people discourage me from persuing a career in aviation. On the other hand, I've got a lot of talent with digital media, buttt...the possible jobs I could get sound pretty boring.

What I would like is for some proper info on becoming a commercial airline pilot (possibly from those who live in australia or middle east?), how long it would take to get a job with a good airline, the benefits, family life, and lifestyle in general, plus anything else that might be useful for me.

Any advice would be really appreciated!

Thanks
Udz

I could say follow your passion however some will say passion wont pay the bills. I am in the Media industry and must say the money is good and I have met some real ASS***** along the way. It really depends on what area of digi media you want to get involved in. Feel free to PM me anytime if you have an questions about it.

typhoonpilot · May 5th, 2006, 07:41

Udhara:

I work with a lot of Australians at my company. All of them left Australia to pursue their career in aviation because Australian aviation is a very competitive market for pilots. The lucky ones end up at Qantas. Everybody else struggles to find a good job. That is what makes Australia one of the toughest markets in the world to pursue. You only have one good choice and if you fail to get on with them then your career will be mediocre at best. You'll have to either live on the paltry wages of a Virgin or Jet* pilot or go overseas.

That being the case, get your degree in Digital Media then pursue a career in aviation. If you make it to Qantas then you are probably set for life. If you don't and want to have a stable job at home then you can fall back on the digital media thing.

Typhoonpilot

udhara · May 5th, 2006, 08:21

thanks a lot for all of the above advice.......I just spoke to my dad today and IF the banks somehow gimme a loan because $33000 per year is most certainly waay out of my budget, i'll most probably do the bachelor of aviation. If not then i'd do digital media/computer science, get a job in the film industry, earn some bucks and then get a job in aviation.

Sound good? or...

thanks again!

udhara de silva

(www.soundclick.com/udharadesilva & www.udhara.deviantart.com ... sorry i just HAD to put em in

)

udhara · May 5th, 2006, 08:22

Ah damn I forgot the most important part... does anyone know anyone who's a pilot for emirates? Or Singapore Airlines? If so how are they finding it?

and the qantas medical..whats so tough about it?

typhoonpilot · May 5th, 2006, 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by udhara

Ah damn I forgot the most important part... does anyone know anyone who's a pilot for emirates? Or Singapore Airlines? If so how are they finding it?

and the qantas medical..whats so tough about it?

The only way you would want to go to work for Singapore is as a Captain. SQ Cargo is hiring expat F.O.s, but it remains to be seen how they will treat them when it comes time to upgrade.

Cathay, Dragonair, a few of the Japanese contracts, and Emirates are the places were you can realistically expect to upgrade. Question is, do you want to live outside of Oz for your whole career ?

EK is okay. It's a nice lifestyle, but I'm only in it for a 10 to 20 year time frame. I wouldn't or couldn't imagine it as a 30 to 35 year time frame.

TP

udhara · May 5th, 2006, 09:32

kewl can i have ur autograph? :P lol....

yeah i lived in saudi arabia when i was a kid so im used to that lifestyle, dubai's a million times better tho!

eerrmm...so is it relatively easy to get a job at EK and...do u expect lots of jobs to be readily available by the time i complete 1000 hrs (i.e arnd 2011-2012 ish?)

thanks again ppl for all ur advice!

typhoonpilot · May 5th, 2006, 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by udhara

kewl can i have ur autograph? :P lol....

yeah i lived in saudi arabia when i was a kid so im used to that lifestyle, dubai's a million times better tho!

eerrmm...so is it relatively easy to get a job at EK and...do u expect lots of jobs to be readily available by the time i complete 1000 hrs (i.e arnd 2011-2012 ish?)

thanks again ppl for all ur advice!

The minimums for EK are 4000 total and 2000 jet. That will probably come down over time, but they will be hiring continuously for the next decade at least, unless that maniac in the White House starts a war with Iran.

TP

udhara · May 5th, 2006, 18:53

omg i'll be like..925 by the time i get that many hrs done lol ah well its all good

thanks

udhara · May 5th, 2006, 23:22

ok so i had a long chat with my unsupportive dad and we comprimised lol. I do my digital media/computer science degree..and for 3 yrs will get my ppl and go flying every month, collecting up hours...after i graduate, i can decide wehther i sitll want to be a pilot or not. If I do want to continue on to beomcing a pilot I'll then be able to afford it myself without getting a million and one loans.

udhara

Realms09 · May 5th, 2006, 23:50

The decision to pursue a career as a professional pilot should not be made when you are 18 and fresh out of high school. Get a degree in something else and truly research and consider it for 3-4 years. Only then, in my opinion, will you be ready to make the right choice.

udhara · May 5th, 2006, 23:55

well said..thanks for that

typhoonpilot · May 6th, 2006, 02:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Realms09

The decision to pursue a career as a professional pilot should not be made when you are 18 and fresh out of high school. Get a degree in something else and truly research and consider it for 3-4 years. Only then, in my opinion, will you be ready to make the right choice.

I completely disagree with this statement. If you know what you want to do when you are, say 14, then go for it. It's those who are focused from a young age that tend to have the best careers in whatever field they pursue. For a teenager to focus on aviation they can easily be working for a major airline in their mid 20s.

TP

Realms09 · May 6th, 2006, 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by typhoonpilot

I completely disagree with this statement. If you know what you want to do when you are, say 14, then go for it. It's those who are focused from a young age that tend to have the best careers in whatever field they pursue. For a teenager to focus on aviation they can easily be working for a major airline in their mid 20s.

TP

I strongly believe in working hard and attacking your goals, and those who love aviation should by all means pursue it as soon as they are able - learn to fly gliders, get your ratings, etc. For those who love aviation, these are items on the agenda regardless of whether you want to fly professionally or not. However, I do not think one should "bet the farm" professionally at 18 by getting an aeronautical science sort of degree. I think it is far better to go to the best all around college you can go to, get a nice well rounded education, and research the professional flying route while you are there. The experienced pilots on this board, such as yourself, bless us with insight on what the profession is like on a daily basis, but that advice cannot be truly absorbed overnight. I think it takes a period of time and some maturing during the 18-22 year old range to have the more balanced view needed for a good decision.

May 3rd, 2006, 23:31	#1
udhara Newbie Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10	Airline Pilots (in Australia?) Hey ppl, I'm kind of going through the most critical time of my life right now lol - i've got 10 days to decide what I want to do with my life (i.e submit my uni application lol) a) get a job in the media industry by doing bachelor in digital media b) become a commercial airline pilot by doing the bachelor in aviation at the uni of new south wales in sydney. The most frustrating part though is that even though I have loved airliners since I was around, say...2...many, many people discourage me from persuing a career in aviation. On the other hand, I've got a lot of talent with digital media, buttt...the possible jobs I could get sound pretty boring. What I would like is for some proper info on becoming a commercial airline pilot (possibly from those who live in australia or middle east?), how long it would take to get a job with a good airline, the benefits, family life, and lifestyle in general, plus anything else that might be useful for me. Any advice would be really appreciated! Thanks Udz

May 4th, 2006, 00:46	#2
Swen Old Skool Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 2,595	Re: Airline Pilots (in Australia?) 1) Go to school and get a degree in digital media assuming that it interests you. 2) Simultaneously, or as soon as feasible financially, start working on your certificates. Get the private, then instrument and so on... 3) Graduate with your 4 year degree. 4) CFI for a bit 5) Move up How's that sound? __________________ "Who'd you give it to? Where's the meat?"

May 4th, 2006, 00:52	#3
Aero_Engineer Old Skool Join Date: May 2005 Location: California, USA Posts: 2,035	Re: Airline Pilots (in Australia?) First of all let me welcome you to the board. I hope you will find a lot of answers over here as I did. I was in your same exact situation two years ago. Every single person in my family was against the fact that I wanted to become a commercial pilot, still most of them sadly feel that way but that did not stop me from doing it. I hopefuly will be a CFI by end of this Fall and will also have a BS in aerospace Engineering. You have to sit down and think carefully. Would you be willing to be away from your family for days if you become a pilot? Would you study and train hard knowing that possibly you may never get the dream flying job or you may get furloughed? Are you raedy to face te competition that you will have from much experienced pilots that are looking for jobs and will be looking for them in future? Do you have the passion and willingness to fight against the odds and work your way through the steps I this career? Would you be willing to dedicate minimum of 8-10 years until you actually are able to secure a good flying position? If your answer to these questions are YES then nothing should stop you, once again I am not as experienced as a lot of these guys on this forum but if you want it go ahead and do it and for support you can always come to us here on JC. Again welcome to the forums and I hope you enjoy the interesting ride that awaits you. Armen

May 4th, 2006, 03:36	#4
udhara Newbie Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10	Re: Airline Pilots (in Australia?) thanks a lot fellas for your advice ..... well the only thing that seems to be logical right now is to flip a coin or somethin lol. umm lets c... yep im willing to stay away from my family and dog for days...so long as i get to see them on my off days. umm yeeh i think i'm willing to strive on and know that my dream job may be further than arm's length....i guess i'd sorta be in the same position if i was looking for a decent job in the media industry? and yes I have a burning passion for aviation lol......im such a nerd...when i was a little 3 foot tall kid i never let my poor siblings sit on window seats...cuz i wanted to stare at the frickin flaps and spoilers during takeoff and landing o_O..... beat that ppl lol :P. soo does anyone else have any additional encouraging/discouraging comments? I guess there aren't and qantas pilots here huh? or emirates? or sri lankan? tc udz

May 4th, 2006, 03:39	#5
frog_flyer Old Skool Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: FTW Posts: 3,970 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Airline Pilots (in Australia?) PROCRASTINATOR!!!!!!!!!! WHY THE FHELCLLK DID YOU WAIT TILL 10 ADAYS AHEAD TO MAKE THIS DEICASONSION!?!? dude fly for qantas __________________ Charter Member - JC Pilot Motion Picture Society (JC PiMPS) "There needs to be more drinking here on JC. We need more ******* partying!" -Doug Taylor

May 4th, 2006, 04:07	#6
udhara Newbie Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10	Re: Airline Pilots (in Australia?) lol because im doing this thing calld foundation year at uni of nsw...its aimed at high schoolers who lived overseas for a long time, most preferably international students...however...since im a local (i.e not international) me and the rest of the local bunch were given our uni apps 3 days ago ...so im NOT a proscrastinator :P got any reasons as to why fly qantas? srry im just a bucket full o questions at this time right now udz

May 4th, 2006, 06:17	#7
udhara Newbie Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10	Re: Airline Pilots (in Australia?) i just reread swen's solution....and i wondered...i'll be arnd 20/21 wehn i graduate with digital media....supposing I start getting flight certifications after i graduate...i'll probably be arnd 25-6 ish when i complete all the neccessarry things to get employed by an airline....is that an ok age to get employed by an airline...or is it too late? im clueless !

May 4th, 2006, 06:41	#8
Timmypig Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: NSW Australia Posts: 222	Re: Airline Pilots (in Australia?) Udhara I started down the commercial route, but didn't start until my mid-twenties. My BA is from UNSW (the Aviation Degree didn't start at UNSW until around when I graduated). A career in aviation in Oz will NOT require a BAv from UNSW or Swinburne or Griffith or whatever. As it turned out Ansett tanked, and the world turned upside down, just when I was contemplating the jump, so I stayed in IT and I just fly on weekends. The jury is still out on the usefulness of BAv and similar courses in Australia. The airlines don't need them (I'm sure you've seen QANTAS's website - HSC maths & physics are needed, but no tertiary quals strictly necessary). The ways to start toward the airlines are: GA bush flyng (C206s etc in Halls Creek, Katherine, Borroloola, Broome, Lake Eyre, etc); GA instructing; or the ADF. The latter requires a ROSO (return of service obligation) or whatever it's called nowadays of up to 10 years, but typically about 12 years before you go back to civvie street. Mate, dinner is on the table, so I'll post again later. BTW have you checked out PPRuNe's Dunnunder & Godzone forums (fora!!!) yet? __________________ I don't have a complex - I really am inferior...

May 4th, 2006, 08:36	#9
wheelsup Old Skool Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: _ Posts: 5,278	Re: Airline Pilots (in Australia?) Ya'll are lucky - I just found out that being born in AUS doesn't necessarily mean I can become a citizen (or at least from what I can tell from the immigration web site). It looks like I have be born from a parent that was a citizen as well, just having an Australian birth certificate isn't enough. I was looking to apply to Qantas, too, after converting my licenses. __________________ "It takes just as much time to be nice to someone as it does to be a jerk."

May 4th, 2006, 09:26	#10
fly22 Old Skool Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: UT, SLC Posts: 1,514	Re: Airline Pilots (in Australia?) PM Minima-No-COntact. He is an FO for a Qantas Jetlink in Perth. The guy has a lot of good info. The difficutly with Qantas isn't the time needed it is the phsy test and another set of test they put you through. Roughly 80 percent of the candidates fail this. I was looking at flying over there but accordning to him there are way more opportunities here even with the state of the industry. I do know that Virgin Blue is sizing up as well as Jetstar. However you pay 33,000 for your type rating in a A-320 upon date of hiring. __________________ Democrats- think you're too stupid to make your own financial decisions. Republicans- think you're too stupid to make your own personal decisions.

May 5th, 2006, 07:41	#12
typhoonpilot Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Dubai, UAE Posts: 339	Re: Airline Pilots (in Australia?) Udhara: I work with a lot of Australians at my company. All of them left Australia to pursue their career in aviation because Australian aviation is a very competitive market for pilots. The lucky ones end up at Qantas. Everybody else struggles to find a good job. That is what makes Australia one of the toughest markets in the world to pursue. You only have one good choice and if you fail to get on with them then your career will be mediocre at best. You'll have to either live on the paltry wages of a Virgin or Jet* pilot or go overseas. That being the case, get your degree in Digital Media then pursue a career in aviation. If you make it to Qantas then you are probably set for life. If you don't and want to have a stable job at home then you can fall back on the digital media thing. Typhoonpilot

May 5th, 2006, 08:21	#13
udhara Newbie Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10	Re: Airline Pilots (in Australia?) thanks a lot for all of the above advice.......I just spoke to my dad today and IF the banks somehow gimme a loan because $33000 per year is most certainly waay out of my budget, i'll most probably do the bachelor of aviation. If not then i'd do digital media/computer science, get a job in the film industry, earn some bucks and then get a job in aviation. Sound good? or... thanks again! udhara de silva (www.soundclick.com/udharadesilva & www.udhara.deviantart.com ... sorry i just HAD to put em in ) Last edited by udhara; May 5th, 2006 at 09:33.

May 5th, 2006, 08:22	#14
udhara Newbie Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10	Re: Airline Pilots (in Australia?) Ah damn I forgot the most important part... does anyone know anyone who's a pilot for emirates? Or Singapore Airlines? If so how are they finding it? and the qantas medical..whats so tough about it?

May 5th, 2006, 09:32	#16
udhara Newbie Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10	Re: Airline Pilots (in Australia?) kewl can i have ur autograph? :P lol.... yeah i lived in saudi arabia when i was a kid so im used to that lifestyle, dubai's a million times better tho! eerrmm...so is it relatively easy to get a job at EK and...do u expect lots of jobs to be readily available by the time i complete 1000 hrs (i.e arnd 2011-2012 ish?) thanks again ppl for all ur advice!

May 5th, 2006, 18:53	#18
udhara Newbie Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10	Re: Airline Pilots (in Australia?) omg i'll be like..925 by the time i get that many hrs done lol ah well its all good thanks

May 5th, 2006, 23:22	#19
udhara Newbie Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10	Re: Airline Pilots (in Australia?) ok so i had a long chat with my unsupportive dad and we comprimised lol. I do my digital media/computer science degree..and for 3 yrs will get my ppl and go flying every month, collecting up hours...after i graduate, i can decide wehther i sitll want to be a pilot or not. If I do want to continue on to beomcing a pilot I'll then be able to afford it myself without getting a million and one loans. udhara

May 5th, 2006, 23:50	#20
Realms09 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 212	Re: Airline Pilots (in Australia?) The decision to pursue a career as a professional pilot should not be made when you are 18 and fresh out of high school. Get a degree in something else and truly research and consider it for 3-4 years. Only then, in my opinion, will you be ready to make the right choice.

May 5th, 2006, 23:55	#21
udhara Newbie Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10	Re: Airline Pilots (in Australia?) well said..thanks for that

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