Good Single Engine Plane

[meritflyer]

If you can afford one, who cares how much you fly?

[MDPilot]

Originally Posted by stuckingfk

300 seems a little steep to me.

Where is this rule of thumb book anyway

Gleaned from the experiences of several of my friends who have owned everything from C-172 to light twins to a Falcon 100. Remember the old adage, "If it flys, floats or ****s, rent it!"

[jwyatt1]

Does anyone know anything about the Piper Cherokee 140/160? What is considered a cross country?

[Tiger815]

Originally Posted by MDPilot

As a very general rule of thumb, if you're not renting at least 300 hr a year, you're better off renting. Over 300 hr, buying a plane MAY pay off.

As for a good SE plane for XC's I not so humbly submit that you can't do better than a Tiger in terms of bang for the buck. Super fun to fly, no more expensive to own than a 172 or PA28, 130+ TAS and the ability to experience open cockpit flight. ;-)

Now looking at some quick, back of the envelope numbers for a simple 4 seat cruiser flown a more typical 100 hours per year.

$500/mo. Monthly payment
$85/mo Tiedown
$100/mo Insurance
$100/mo Annual/MX
$357/mo Fuel

Total monthly 500+85+100+100+357 = $1142 * 12 = $13704 per year or roughly $137/hour at 100 hours.

At $85/hr, 300 hours cost you $25500, so the breakeven is somewhere north of 100 hours, but likely south of 300 unless you have a bad MX year.

Assumptions:

Montly Payment will depend on cost of the plane and financing.
Tiedown is a SWAG.
Insurance will depend heavily on AC value and pilot experience.
Annual/MX is not a regularly occuring monthly cost. You have to have resources to spring for $1200 worth of mags when the crap out unexpectedly and something else can break the next day.
Fuel was calculated at 10 gph/100 hours/$4.29 per gal which is the average in my area per Airnav. OUCH!!!

[jwyatt1]

So if I wanted to take a vacation for a week and rented a plane that was around $100-150 hr to rent, would I have to pay for the hours I fly or the hours I have it? Just curious

[SteveC]

Maybe it is time to better define the question. You started out asking about a plane to "do a lot of long distance traveling", and now you are talking about Cherokee 140's.

What do you want an airplane for? Business travel? Leisure travel? Flight training?

What do you mean by "long distance traveling"?

How many people and how much "stuff" are going on the typical trip?

How important is time (read that as "speed") to your travel plans?

Help us by defining want you want to do and we can help steer you in the right direction. Right now the answers are all over the board and are probably more confusing than helpful.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by jwyatt1

So if I wanted to take a vacation for a week and rented a plane that was around $100-150 hr to rent, would I have to pay for the hours I fly or the hours I have it? Just curious

It varies, but the typical scenario is that you pay for the flight hours, with a stipulation of a minimum number of hours per day that the plane is gone. For example they may want to be paid for at least 1 or 2 hours of flight time for every day that you are gone (just pulling numbers out of the air as an example).

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by jwyatt1

So if I wanted to take a vacation for a week and rented a plane that was around $100-150 hr to rent, would I have to pay for the hours I fly or the hours I have it? Just curious

Typically most places [I've rented at] want at least 3/ hours a day on the airplane for every 24 hours you have it out. This doesn't apply to flying clubs though... have you checked any of those out? Might be right up your alley.

[jwyatt1]

oh sorry I didnt mean this to get confusing. I was just looking around for a good single engine plane to do some long distance flying just for leisure. We got on the cost of some things that started to make me think of other options liked fixed gear etc. Then the whole rent Vs buying thing started. So basically I am in the market for a single engine fixed gear plane that I can do some pretty good traveling in. But then again I dont know if its just better to rent a plane everytime I want to take a trip?

[MDPilot]

Originally Posted by Tiger815

$500/mo. Monthly payment
$85/mo Tiedown
$100/mo Insurance
$100/mo Annual/MX
$357/mo Fuel

Total monthly 500+85+100+100+357 = $1142 * 12 = $13704 per year or roughly $137/hour at 100 hours.

Realistic now:

$655 Monthly payments on a 15 year loan for a 1976 Tiger on aso with a slightly higher than mid time engine, well equipped on fairly recent avionics
85 Tiedown Okay, but wear and tear will increase not in a hanger
200 More realistic full coverage hull and liability insurance cost for a new pilot on his own airplane
100 Cost of an annual if nothing else is wrong

These are most of the simple fixed costs that have to be paid even if you only fly 1 hr this year.

Fuel, and engine reserve, are variable costs. 12 GPH*$4.00/gal and another $20/hr for engine reserve, thats $80/hr between the two with todays gas prices. For 100/hr/yr, thats $800. Fly it more and the variable costs go up, but at least you amortize the fixed costs over more hours. For 100 hrs/year just round this whole thing off to about $22,000/year

Some more for a new paint job every 10 yr or so since you are keeping it outside in the weather. One of your radios craps out? There's another $2500 (minimum) for a repair or used replacement. I can easily see another $5000-7000 in possible yearly expenses for your example airplane. Of course, if you're not worried about money, then go for it!

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by jwyatt1

I just kind of viewed it as buying Vs renting a house but I am still very new to aviation.

It's not always the smartest thing to do to buy a house, either - regardless of what the trend is . . .

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by MDPilot

85 Tiedown Okay, but wear and tear will increase not in a hanger

For the money you'll save by not renting a hanger, you can have the airplane re-painted annually and have the plexiglass replace every three.

[MDPilot]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

For the money you'll save by not renting a hanger, you can have the airplane re-painted annually and have the plexiglass replace every three.

You need to change airports, Lloyd!!

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by MDPilot

You need to change airports, Lloyd!!

Nooo, the remote-controlled electric hangar doors are soooooo cool!!

[Bandit_Driver]

A Cessan 206 wouldn't be too bad if you wanted to a go a little north of your price and you get 6 seats. Perfect for taking the family along.

Here are some number from AOPA on 2005 Aircraft Sales

General aviation manufacturers have recorded the highest first quarter billings in history. Industry billings totaled $4 billion, a 39.7-percent increase over 2005, according to the General Aviation Manufacturers Association (GAMA). While all market segments are up, piston-engine aircraft led the way with a total of 597 shipments compared to 434 last year. Business jet shipments were up by nearly the same percentage. With 187 shipments, Cessna was the leader for total piston-engine aircraft when combining the 172, 182, and 206 models. But Cirrus easily had the best-selling model, the SR22, with 124. Cirrus shipped another 35 SR20s. The Diamond DA40 and Columbia 400 are both selling well with 46 shipments each. The New Piper Aircraft, meanwhile, shipped 39 piston aircraft. "These positive figures, if sustained, are an indication that the year will be a solid one for general aviation," said GAMA President and CEO Pete Bunce. "All segments of the general aviation manufacturing industry are continuing to increase at strong levels."
(May 5)