Somebody Please Help!

EyeOntheSky · April 29th, 2006, 09:55

I was just wondering if some current pilots could give me their opinion on my situation.

I am 22 and have been planning on getting all my ratings to become a professional aviator and work my way up to get hired by the regionals.

However I have a criminal record that includes: Eluding the police in a Motor Vehicle in the 3rd degree, as well as a DWI from the same incident.

This happened when I was 18 and stupid, and I'm almost 23 and since haven't had, and don't intend to have further legal troubles whatsoever. I was told today that there is no way in hell that I would be even looked at by an airline with that type of record for at least 10 years. I was wondering if some of you folks could give me your own opinion about all this, mainly whether or not it is true. Thanks in advance, Steve

DE727UPS · April 29th, 2006, 10:16

It depends on how bad you want to fly as a career.

Maybe you work longer as a CFI than most and work longer at 135 freight than most. It could take you longer to overcome the setback. The question is back to you. Is it worth it to you?

What if you instructed two years and did 135 freight for three before a regional would look at you?

Setbacks can be overcome. The more time, experience, ratings, good work record, and lack of addtional events, the easier it is to move on.

EyeOntheSky · April 29th, 2006, 10:28

Thank you for your help, I will do whatever is neccessary its just the way this person was making it out, my background essentially would make it impossible to find employment of ank kind flying an aircraft. I mean he was basically saying even being hired to instruct on a c-172 would be out of the question let alone flying freight or pax.

A300Capt · April 29th, 2006, 10:33

We all do stupid things when we're young. Some of us continue to do stupid things when we're older. Most of us learn from it and become better people from the experience. Running from the police is never a good thing and I'm sure you've learn that by now.

I won't say it's impossible to overcome your past; however, considering that the airlines have thousands of a "clean" applicants to choose from for the few openings they might have, the odds are certainly against you..especially post 9/11. That's the cold hard truth. The "feel good" truth is that as more time passes from your legal transgression the better your chances are in achieving your goals. Your clean work experience will begin to overshadow past problems. You'll just have to work a little harder than the next guy, keep your chin up and continue to keep your eye on the prize.

I, for one, like the way you took the humble approach, admitted guilt without petty excuses in your post and accepted responsibility for the mistake. That kind of attitude goes a long way.

Good luck!

Airdale · April 29th, 2006, 10:48

The best thing you can do is be honest and up front with any future employers. Admit your mistake and prove to them that you have learned your lesson and haven't done anything since. I don't have any DUI's or felonies but I have some stupid tickets on my drivers license from when I was 17. Every application you fill out for a flying job, even for aviation insurance, is going to ask about your driving record and history as well as your criminal history. You can not escape answering the truth on those.

While there isn't anyone who can honestly tell you exactly the road you have to travel, you know its going to be a tough one. I wouldn't say its impossible, but its one of those things like A300Capt said. If an employer has 50 resumes for 10 positions, they need to use something to sort them. Criminal history, college degree etc. will all be ways to make seperate resume piles, and there's no telling which pile yours will land in. Goodluck to you and maybe you can talk to a pilot that had a similar situation.

Eagle737 · April 29th, 2006, 10:55

Hey Steve,
Nah, as the one who talked to you this morning... I never said that you wouldn't be able to find employment flying with that record.. I was trying to get across that you will be hard pressed to get an airline job with that incident being current on your record. As far as instructing, there are plenty of schools that would probably hire you to instruct for them, it just might mean you will instruct for longer than some without that kind of incident on your record before advancing to the carriers.

For instance here is an excerpt for you from the December 2005 of "Airline Pilot Careers: On The Record" its with Chris Bender, Pilot Recruiter for Mesa Airlines. She states: "Applicants are disqualified if they have too many traffic tickets, misdemeanors, or a recent DUI on their record. DUIs are not necessarily disqualifying if a certain amount of time has elapsed, but the pilot will have to do a credible job of explaining the situation at the interview."

So please, keep the dream goin! I think you deffinately could make it to the airlines and fly commercially, but I think you just have be realistic that the one stupid mistake when you were young might have set you back for a while in the short term.

Best of luck,
Chris

Airdale · April 29th, 2006, 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle737

Hey Steve,
Nah, as the one who talked to you this morning... I never said that you wouldn't be able to find employment flying with that record.. I was trying to get across that you will be hard pressed to get an airline job with that incident being current on your record. As far as instructing, there are plenty of schools that would probably hire you to instruct for them, it just might mean you will instruct for longer than some without that kind of incident on your record before advancing to the carriers.

For instance here is an excerpt for you from the December 2005 of "Airline Pilot Careers: On The Record" its with Chris Bender, Pilot Recruiter for Mesa Airlines. She states: "Applicants are disqualified if they have too many traffic tickets, misdemeanors, or a recent DUI on their record. DUIs are not necessarily disqualifying if a certain amount of time has elapsed, but the pilot will have to do a credible job of explaining the situation at the interview."

So please, keep the dream goin! I think you deffinately could make it to the airlines and fly commercially, but I think you just have be realistic that the one stupid mistake when you were young might have set you back for a while in the short term.

Best of luck,
Chris

Well said Chris.

Steve I'm sitting next to Chris right here and I over heard him talking to you. Just understand that we here at this organization do not want to give you some sales pitch with peach fuzz all over it just to get your dollars. This company isn't like that. We just want to make sure those that want to get on with us are fully informed about their decision so that we don't waste your hard earned or hard borrowed money.

Eagle737 · April 29th, 2006, 11:55

Hey Steve,
I remember why I told you 10 yrs between incident and airline job! I had to remember where i had heard it from... I worked for Pinnacle for 4.5 yrs and in that time I had lots of access to "stuff." Here is why as a pilot you need the 10 yrs between the DUI/DWI incident and the airline job:

Straight off of Pinnacle Airline's website (nwairlink.com):

* Special Note to Pilot Applicants

Canadian Law prohibits an individual who has been convicted of a DUI/DWI within the last 10 years from entering or exiting Canada. Special paperwork must be obtained through the Canadian Consulate so that a waiver may be obtained. This waiver must be obtained prior to our airline interview.

So, Steve, that being said, any carrier that you might fly for, if they have routes that go to Canada or plan on servicing Canada you MIGHT not be able to get hired with them at this point until you put that 10 year time in from the incident.

Chris

ColMustard · April 29th, 2006, 12:23

All good advice. I can't add too much to that, other than how to handle news like this. I'm sure I speak for all the pilots here, that can recall when we have received (whether it was deliberate or not) some piece of information from someone "in the know" that might have discouraged us, or given us a reason to give up. IMMEDIATELY after we hear this piece of information, our stomach's DROP, and our heart starts to race in worry.

That uneasy feeling usually doesn't subside until we hear some words of hope from someone else (especially someone who we trust). After this happens a couple DOZEN times, you get used to it, and realize that you have to take some of this information with a grain of salt.

Your desire and motivation is there. Keep focused on the prize, and continue to present the responsible and positive thinking persona, and it'll come eventually. In the end, the only person you need to convince it can be done, is yourself. But all of us have seeked (and received) encouragement from good hearted positive thinking people that has helped "rekindle" the flame! (i.e. surround yourself with these kind of people

)

Next time this happens, sleep on it, get some time separation from it, then move on. We create too many reasons on our own to quit or be discouraged, we certainly don't need an added effort from others!

Hope this helps. Best of luck!

-ColM

EyeOntheSky · April 29th, 2006, 12:24

I'd like to thank all of you folks for your insight. It's greatly appreciated.

Chris- I'm sorry I misinterpereted what you told me on the phone.

I completely respect the strict hiring practices by the airlines after what happened on Sept 11th.

I am pursuing a B.S. in Aviation, I just was recently looking into flight training and my background history I must equate when making career choices. Like you pilots say, if there is 100 names on a pile for 8 positions, criminal backgrounds, in spite of a B.S. will shift my name to the bottom of the pile everytime; regardless of the company I apply to.

Today, I must take responsibility for all choices that I've made, including the self-destructive ones.

Do you pilots believe that a potential employer may take into account the fact that I was 18 at the time this happened and not 26?

Do you think if they see it was an isolated incident and not consistant behavioral problem it would help?

Would I even be able to get part 135 work with this background?

Would getting connections help? Or is the bottom line the bottom line?

Once again I appreciate all insight you guys give me. Thanks in advance, Steve

DE727UPS · April 29th, 2006, 12:34

"Do you pilots believe that a potential employer may take into account the fact that I was 18 at the time this happened and not 26?"

Yes

"Would I even be able to get part 135 work with this background?"

Yes, I've seen some pretty shady looking characters flying 135 freight....hehe. You might not get the first one you look at and you might have to build your time up higher than normal mins, but I'm confident you'll have little trouble. Heck, some 135 freight outfits would probably see you as more likey to stick around a while. It could actually work in your favor at that level.

"Would getting connections help?"

I think an inside connection, at every level of this career, helps set you apart from the pack. It's priceless.

Minnesota_Flyer · April 29th, 2006, 12:35

Were those felony or misdemeanor convictions (especially the fleeing the cops one)? It could make a difference.

In any case, if that is your only conviction, and it happened when you were 18 (and if both are misdemeanors), it probably isn't going to have a huge impact on your career. For a CFI job (or even for a Part 135 freight job) the employer may not even run a criminal background check, although they may ask for that information on an application (DON'T LIE!!). Chances are that those types of employers aren't going to really even care about a one time thing that happened 5 years ago. If it comes up, be honest, be contrite, and explain how much you've learned/grown, etc.

For the airlines (regional on up), they will run a criminal background check because TSA requires it. However, from what you've listed as your convictions, it does not appear that you would be barred from flying for the airlines under the TSA regs. The airlines might still screen you out under their own policies, but they probably won't put up a firm bar to a conviction which, by then, would be about 10 years old.

So, while your convictions certainly aren't going to help (and they might prevent you from getting on with one or a few airlines), they aren't going to prevent you from flying professionally if that's what you really want to do. Just keep your nose clean from now on.

MF

Holding Short · April 29th, 2006, 13:09

Off the topic a little. I was wondering about the disclosing of information on applications.

For instance, prior work history. Is there a time frame or time period that they would want this information? Do they want info on all the jobs I've had since birth or there a "capp" on how far back?

There is usually about 5 sections, to list prior work history on the application. Asking for dates; phone numbers; supervisor's name, etc...
In my case, I've been at my current job(non aviation) for 9 Yrs. 4Yrs at the job before that. 3 Yrs before that at another job.

That's 16 Yrs. How am I Suppose to remember all that info to fill the application ,completely.

HS

Eagle737 · April 29th, 2006, 13:17

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