Rates on the Twinstar?

Timbuff10 · April 23rd, 2006, 18:06

Now that there are a few of these in the US (from what I hear) does anyone know what the hourly rate is on these things?

One would think that since it uses so much less fuel, not to mention diesel (I think) it would cost significantly less than a new seminole right? And if both engines turn the same way, you won't have that high cost of the odd engine.

Or will flight schools say it looks cool and people are interested so we will charge more for it?

Screaming_Emu · April 23rd, 2006, 19:11

not sure, but it does look like a pretty badass plane. Dont know how good of a trainer it will be though since everything bout the engines is automatic, other than the thrust levers anyway.

stuckingfk · April 23rd, 2006, 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Screaming_Emu

not sure, but it does look like a pretty badass plane. Dont know how good of a trainer it will be though since everything bout the engines is automatic, other than the thrust levers anyway.

What do you think jet drivers do when there's an engine failure?

Feather?

mtsu_av8er · April 23rd, 2006, 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timbuff10

Or will flight schools say it looks cool and people are interested so we will charge more for it?

That's exactly what I believe will happen.

Look at all of these silly operators with DA-20s and DA-40's. The sad part is that people will pay it!

Timbuff10 · April 23rd, 2006, 21:22

I take it, DA40s are cheaper to operate than a 172 of the same year?

I have actually heard that the G1000 172 is cheaper to buy than the non-glass version. Not sure if it is true but I could easily see it being that way. I do know G1000s usually rent for about $15 more per hour though.

CAFFEINE · April 23rd, 2006, 21:27

I got to demo one today and it's a pretty fun airplane. You are right, they are diesel engines and burn jet A. It's not as fast as a seminole, but it doesn't burn nearly as much fuel either. The guy said there were only 10 in the US currently. He said they are going for about $480,000 new. What's a new seminole go for?

Swissair · April 23rd, 2006, 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by CAFFEINE

What's a new seminole go for?

Base price is $484,900... look for that to be in the 550 rage after options and fittings...

So basically the same price as the Twinstar

Screaming_Emu · April 23rd, 2006, 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by CAFFEINE

I got to demo one today and it's a pretty fun airplane. You are right, they are diesel engines and burn jet A. It's not as fast as a seminole, but it doesn't burn nearly as much fuel either. The guy said there were only 10 in the US currently. He said they are going for about $480,000 new. What's a new seminole go for?

really not as fast as a seminole? I thought it was supposed to be faster.

Diamond's website has 172 TAS listed at 80% power, piper has 162 at 75%

WestIndian425 · April 23rd, 2006, 22:05

The Diamond Twinstar is faster than a Seminole!

It cruises (@ 80% power) at 171kts with a 12.5 gph fuel burn.

Economy cruise (@ 60% power) is 151 kts with an 8.8 gph fuel burn.

Check out www.diamondaircraft.com.

Neil

Timbuff10 · April 23rd, 2006, 23:15

Ok, so they are quoting about $500,000 range fully loaded which includes the G1000. Seminoles with a dual stack of 430s are around $550,000. This combined with the fact that your fuel burn is nearly cut in half, there should be no reason why the Twinstar should ever be renting for more than a new model Seminole then.

In my area new Seminoles go for a little over $200 an hour, perhaps we can see these Twinstars for $175 an hour when they actually arrive?

I wonder if insurance companies think one is more safe than the other? That could change the price too I suppose?

dakovich · April 24th, 2006, 01:45

what about the talk that the Diesel's have to be replaced every 1000hrs. not overhauled, REPLACED. last i read they were still working on getting an extrension to the rule to increase the TBR. if the engines have half the life, then prices may be affected by that.

Screaming_Emu · April 24th, 2006, 01:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by dakovich

what about the talk that the Diesel's have to be replaced every 1000hrs. not overhauled, REPLACED. last i read they were still working on getting an extrension to the rule to increase the TBR. if the engines have half the life, then prices may be affected by that.

bah, just take the engines off and use it as a glider then :-P

Timbuff10 · April 24th, 2006, 01:48

Ohh, I didn't know about that... Thousand hours seems pretty low though, you sure that is right? That would be about once a year at some schools.

Screaming_Emu · April 24th, 2006, 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timbuff10

Ohh, I didn't know about that... Thousand hours seems pretty low though, you sure that is right? That would be about once a year at some schools.

yeah, I vaguely remember reading something about that.

Shemsey · April 24th, 2006, 01:54

That is fact with the engines at the moment... very short lifespan, and only being replaced. However, once they have proven themself in a couple years,that will continue to go up!

dakovich · April 24th, 2006, 02:24

yup, 1000 hours. http://www.tae-service.de/doc-downlo...v1LifeTime.pdf

April 23rd, 2006, 18:06	#1
Timbuff10 Old Skool Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Coloradan in Orange County, CA Posts: 3,235	Rates on the Twinstar? Now that there are a few of these in the US (from what I hear) does anyone know what the hourly rate is on these things? One would think that since it uses so much less fuel, not to mention diesel (I think) it would cost significantly less than a new seminole right? And if both engines turn the same way, you won't have that high cost of the odd engine. Or will flight schools say it looks cool and people are interested so we will charge more for it? __________________ My Photography My Airliners.net photos

April 23rd, 2006, 19:11	#2
Screaming_Emu Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 3,396	Re: Rates on the Twinstar? not sure, but it does look like a pretty badass plane. Dont know how good of a trainer it will be though since everything bout the engines is automatic, other than the thrust levers anyway. __________________ Commercial Pilot - ASEL, AMEL, Instrument CFI/II 1050TT CRJ-700 FO at Southernjets Connection Former flight instructor out of KBWI and W29 Loves Dutch chicks "jtrain609: I wish I had a pair"

April 23rd, 2006, 21:22	#5
Timbuff10 Old Skool Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Coloradan in Orange County, CA Posts: 3,235	Re: Rates on the Twinstar? I take it, DA40s are cheaper to operate than a 172 of the same year? I have actually heard that the G1000 172 is cheaper to buy than the non-glass version. Not sure if it is true but I could easily see it being that way. I do know G1000s usually rent for about $15 more per hour though. __________________ My Photography My Airliners.net photos

April 23rd, 2006, 21:27	#6
CAFFEINE Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Ontario, CA Posts: 664	Re: Rates on the Twinstar? I got to demo one today and it's a pretty fun airplane. You are right, they are diesel engines and burn jet A. It's not as fast as a seminole, but it doesn't burn nearly as much fuel either. The guy said there were only 10 in the US currently. He said they are going for about $480,000 new. What's a new seminole go for? __________________ Sleep is a poor substitute for coffee. Commercial Pilot ASMEL, IA CFI/CFII/MEI

April 23rd, 2006, 22:05	#9
WestIndian425 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: KEWR (by way of Brooklyn, NY) Posts: 967	Re: Rates on the Twinstar? The Diamond Twinstar is faster than a Seminole! It cruises (@ 80% power) at 171kts with a 12.5 gph fuel burn. Economy cruise (@ 60% power) is 151 kts with an 8.8 gph fuel burn. Check out www.diamondaircraft.com. Neil __________________ God did not create aircraft pilots to be on the ground.

April 23rd, 2006, 23:15	#10
Timbuff10 Old Skool Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Coloradan in Orange County, CA Posts: 3,235	Re: Rates on the Twinstar? Ok, so they are quoting about $500,000 range fully loaded which includes the G1000. Seminoles with a dual stack of 430s are around $550,000. This combined with the fact that your fuel burn is nearly cut in half, there should be no reason why the Twinstar should ever be renting for more than a new model Seminole then. In my area new Seminoles go for a little over $200 an hour, perhaps we can see these Twinstars for $175 an hour when they actually arrive? I wonder if insurance companies think one is more safe than the other? That could change the price too I suppose? __________________ My Photography My Airliners.net photos

April 24th, 2006, 01:45	#11
dakovich Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 1,043	Re: Rates on the Twinstar? what about the talk that the Diesel's have to be replaced every 1000hrs. not overhauled, REPLACED. last i read they were still working on getting an extrension to the rule to increase the TBR. if the engines have half the life, then prices may be affected by that.

April 24th, 2006, 01:48	#13
Timbuff10 Old Skool Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Coloradan in Orange County, CA Posts: 3,235	Re: Rates on the Twinstar? Ohh, I didn't know about that... Thousand hours seems pretty low though, you sure that is right? That would be about once a year at some schools. __________________ My Photography My Airliners.net photos

April 24th, 2006, 01:54	#15
Shemsey Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 79	Re: Rates on the Twinstar? That is fact with the engines at the moment... very short lifespan, and only being replaced. However, once they have proven themself in a couple years,that will continue to go up!

April 24th, 2006, 02:24	#16
dakovich Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 1,043	Re: Rates on the Twinstar? yup, 1000 hours. http://www.tae-service.de/doc-downlo...v1LifeTime.pdf

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