Delta TA Is Out!

[Kristie]

I am so ticked off.. i FOR SURE thought it was the company that was going to come down...i didn't think the union, negotiating committee, MEC would be so stupid!

I'm almost thinking that the DAL pilots need to call for some union head and say "you want me to give up another 5% on top of the 9% you had already proposed to the company? I think, in that case, it should be taken out of union dues!" (cuz it was originally 9% or 140 mil proposed earlier was it not?)

what the hell are we paying 1.95% (of total pay) per month for here? representation or just for ****s-n-giggles?

cuz they for SURE are not working for the pilots NOW....that's obviously crystal clear...trying to save their own asses instead of who they're supposed to be representin' is going to get them screwed!

As it is, it should have been the company coming down to meet OUR demands...we're not "killing" the company... apparently, it's the union along with company (something smells of rotten politics) doing it now...who's sleeping in whose bed?

[Timbuff10]

And that is the big knock on unions. They cost a lot and many times you get nothing out of it. A union is just another business as far as I am concerned.

I wish you guys the best, but I am afriad you may need luck.

[OldTownPilot]

ALPA has been nothing but a "big business" for several years now. They got the CO pilots to give up consessions when the company posted a profit the previous quarter. They are also allowing the lowering of the bar in the regional ranks. They ore only looking out for their friends, and that is other big businesses. The catch is they use working amseicas dollars to to said activities.

[B767Driver]

Originally Posted by OldTownPilot

ALPA has been nothing but a "big business" for several years now. They got the CO pilots to give up consessions when the company posted a profit the previous quarter. .

You need only look so far as that they let an aurline with a significant number of scabs back into the membership. Unbelievable .

Oh, btw, the TA will pass with 59% voting in favor.

And I'm with Doug...not real interested in a circular discussion about this one.

[B767Driver]

Originally Posted by Timbuff10

So from everything I have read, it looks like about 90% of the pilots will vote NO.

Where does this leave us? More pictures of empty lockers or will a strike be assured if it gets voted down?

That's 90% of the 5% that actually post on the internet. I'd say 90% of pilots have never even heard of some of these websites. Doug's is the only one I've ever been to...and that's just because I know him.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by Kristie

I am so ticked off.. i FOR SURE thought it was the company that was going to come down...i didn't think the union, negotiating committee, MEC would be so stupid!

I'm almost thinking that the DAL pilots need to call for some union head and say "you want me to give up another 5% on top of the 9% you had already proposed to the company? I think, in that case, it should be taken out of union dues!" (cuz it was originally 9% or 140 mil proposed earlier was it not?)

what the hell are we paying 1.95% (of total pay) per month for here? representation or just for ****s-n-giggles?

cuz they for SURE are not working for the pilots NOW....that's obviously crystal clear...trying to save their own asses instead of who they're supposed to be representin' is going to get them screwed!

As it is, it should have been the company coming down to meet OUR demands...we're not "killing" the company... apparently, it's the union along with company (something smells of rotten politics) doing it now...who's sleeping in whose bed?

Kristie wouldn't an over all resounding no vote on this TA force not only ALPA but DL management to wake up. B767Driver...I hope this TA doesn't pass for Delta's sake but more so the industry?

[Timbuff10]

Originally Posted by B767Driver

That's 90% of the 5% that actually post on the internet. I'd say 90% of pilots have never even heard of some of these websites. Doug's is the only one I've ever been to...and that's just because I know him.

So when this thing is voted in the ramifactions (other than lower pay and bennies) will be more RJs thus more hiring in the regionals which is good in the short term because that means more jobs, yippie! (scarcasm implied) But in the long term or shall I say more realistically, it means, more RJs with lower paid pilots still racing to the bottom and a shrinking mainline that will become that much more difficult to get to, not that it will be that desireable anymore anyway?

Is that a good summary?

[MQAAord]

Yeah, pretty much.

[OldTownPilot]

Originally Posted by B767Driver

You need only look so far as that they let an airline with a significant number of scabs back into the membership. Unbelievable .

That and the MEC chairman at the time was a scab. Yes the #1 guy in the CAL union was a scab. That there is unbelievable.

Of the 3 pilots on the NC, none flew international, so guess what group got screwed, you guess it international pilots. The international override was eliminated, intl per diem when down (domestic stayed the same). The 50% pay for deadheads hit the EWR europe flying hard. Half of the Europe flying for EWR 756 (Dads base) has an IRO who deadheads over then flys back, making those trips worthless. When 35% of the lines go from quite senior to the rock bottom the base gets hit hard. That, and the rest seat is a seat in coach now. Have you tried sleeping in one of those? The only thing I got was a sore neck and was still exausted after the flight.

[Tim]

Originally Posted by Kristie

I am so ticked off.. i FOR SURE thought it was the company that was going to come down...i didn't think the union, negotiating committee, MEC would be so stupid!

I'm almost thinking that the DAL pilots need to call for some union head and say "you want me to give up another 5% on top of the 9% you had already proposed to the company? I think, in that case, it should be taken out of union dues!" (cuz it was originally 9% or 140 mil proposed earlier was it not?)

what the hell are we paying 1.95% (of total pay) per month for here? representation or just for ****s-n-giggles?

cuz they for SURE are not working for the pilots NOW....that's obviously crystal clear...trying to save their own asses instead of who they're supposed to be representin' is going to get them screwed!

As it is, it should have been the company coming down to meet OUR demands...we're not "killing" the company... apparently, it's the union along with company (something smells of rotten politics) doing it now...who's sleeping in whose bed?

Kristie tell us how you really feel.....

[Kristie]

dude, i gotta save some for tomorrow!

[Tim]

lol...Kristie do you need to fill out Doug's vote for him?

[Kristie]

Oh no... that's all his! he knows he votes for both of us... hahaha

[Tim]

The good hubby knows how to follow directions...us married men all do.

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by Tim

The good hubby knows how to follow directions...us married men all do.

Happily married men.

Wifey's not happy, NO ONE'S happy!

Learn that one early or learn it in a divorce court I say.

[Tim]

Wifey's not happy, NO ONE'S happy!

AMEN to that and then you have to teach your kids the same thing just saying if moms not happy no one is!!!!

[Doug Taylor]

S'actly.

[CFIse]

Originally Posted by Timbuff10

So from everything I have read, it looks like about 90% of the pilots will vote NO.

Where does this leave us? More pictures of empty lockers or will a strike be assured if it gets voted down?

We'll see about the 90% - about 90% of people didn't vote for George Bush - but he ended up in charge anyway - just as I'm sure 90% of Delta pilots will say they voted no, but it mght pass anyway.....

But if it doesn't pass then there are 2 options:
- back to the table.
- Delta gets the contract thrown out.

If Delta gets the contract thrown out there are 2 options:
- the pilots roll over and accept even BIGGER cuts - which seems unlikely if they vote this TA down.
- the pilots strike - effectively driving Delta into Chapter 7.

It's good TV - unless you work at Delta, and then it sucks!

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by OldTownPilot

That and the MEC chairman at the time was a scab. Yes the #1 guy in the CAL union was a scab. That there is unbelievable.

.

Not really. ALPA needed to get back into CAL. Putting some of the scabs back "in good standing" served that purpose. Not saying I agree with that all, just that I'm pretty sure that's how it went down.

A 14% paycut for DAL....but hey, you're getting 1% raises every year in return

Am wondering if it's even worth it to be an airline pilot anymore, with what love the company provides (not)....or even the union leadership, in some ways. Makes one wonder who to trust beyond their fellow rank and file.

[Champcar]

Originally Posted by MikeD

Am wondering if it's even worth it to be an airline pilot anymore, with what love the company provides (not)....or even the union leadership, in some ways. Makes one wonder who to trust beyond their fellow rank and file.

Im starting to think the same thing. Business jets look more appealing everyday. My Airlines Operations Professor was a American Eagle domicile Chief Pilot and some of things he has told up about union and management issues has me wondering how "professional" this industry is.

[skyhawk39]

Best thing I ever did was to get the hell away from the airline industry...

[Bandit_Driver]

Originally Posted by Kristie

what the hell are we paying 1.95% (of total pay) per month for here? representation or just for ****s-n-giggles?

cuz they for SURE are not working for the pilots NOW....that's obviously crystal clear...trying to save their own asses instead of who they're supposed to be representin' is going to get them screwed!

As it is, it should have been the company coming down to meet OUR demands...we're not "killing" the company... apparently, it's the union along with company (something smells of rotten politics) doing it now...who's sleeping in whose bed?

I feel your frustration Krisitie. My previous airline had serious issues with Teamsters representation. It is obvious, the unions don't give a crap about the pilots. It's all about how much cash they can get in their pockets.

[Kristie]

seems to be true.. and yet, without unions.. we're still screwed...

unfortunately, i haven't had the defining solution come into my head yet....

[ERfly]

Originally Posted by MikeD

Not really. ALPA needed to get back into CAL. Putting some of the scabs back "in good standing" served that purpose. Not saying I agree with that all, just that I'm pretty sure that's how it went down.

Not really. ALPA was voted into CAL. The scabs (aka the IAH LEC) recalled the MEC chairman (nice guy, know him well). The scabs also blame Express for voting ALPA back in. It has been shown to them many times that even without our vote, ALPA would be back on property. That's why we don't have a single seniority list. That's why our MECs split. That's why some people have declared war on us. Its getting better, but sometimes its an up hill battle.