Radio Call - your opinion

[British Pilot]

When you have landed at a tower controlled airport, and have cleared the runway and are now on a taxiway, is the bolded text in this radio call redundant?

"Hanscom Ground, Cessna 6097G, clear of the active, taxiway Golf, for the West Ramp"

I have heard some pilots say this.

[bike21]

Some folks use it. I prefer to be specific. "35 Left" for instance.

It is more annoying at an uncontrolled field. When you just tune onto CTAF and all you hear someone say 'clear the active' it doesn't give you any good info. Had they simply stated 'clear 29' you are instantly armed with a great snapshot of what's going on in the pattern.

[planejay]

I normally just reply something like this: "Riverside ground, cessna xxxxx holding short alpha on alpha 2 for west ramp" it may vary depending on how the ap is setup.

[Kingairer]

Underlined text not needed. Cessna 1234A... Bravo 4, parking WillCheatcha Air.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Let's see. At my airport there are three runways, all of which (in at least one direction) are in use at any given time. So the "active" is...?

[TonyC]

On initial contact with ground control, you should state your position. While "clear of the active" is not as descriptive as it could be, it does fit that requirement. "Taxiway Golf" should suffice. The two together are the most descriptive.







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[Kingairer]

What does it describe?

[bLizZuE]

ground blah blah is clear of 11 right at charlie three, taxi flightsafety

[CFIse]

The AIM says:

3. Request for taxi instructions after landing. State your aircraft identification, location, and that you request taxi instructions.

EXAMPLE-
Aircraft: "Dulles ground, Beechcraft One Four Two Six One clearing runway one right on taxiway echo three, request clearance to Page."

Tower: "Beechcraft One Four Two Six One, Dulles ground, taxi to Page via taxiways echo three, echo one, and echo niner."

or

Aircraft: "Orlando ground, Beechcraft One Four Two Six One clearing runway one eight left at taxiway bravo three, request clearance to Page."

Tower: "Beechcraft One Four Two Six One, Orlando ground, hold short of runway one eight right."

Aircraft: "Beechcraft One Four Two Six One, hold short of runway one eight right."

I must admit I normally only include the runway number if it might not be clear where I am - if I say "clearing Yankee 4" then if the controller doesn't know exactly where I am (since Y4 is about 2 plane lengths long) then he/she has bigger problems in their knowledge of the airport than trying to locate me...... :-)

[Kingairer]

Print this out and take it with you to ORD

[ColMustard]

It is redundant because you shouldn't be talking to ground when on a runway.
Just tell them an intersection and ATC should be able to find it. (I'm pretty sure they know where the intersections are on the field )

-ColM

[TonyC]

Originally Posted by Kingairer

What does it describe?

Without having an airport diagram of the location in question, I'm not sure exactly what is described. However, the question asked for an opinion, and I offered one based on a generic situation. If British Pilot's taxiway golf is only 50 feet long, then it only describes the direction pointing, towards, or away from the runway. If it's a longer taxiway, oh, say a parallel that is 8000 feet long and runs from the appraoch end of the active to the departure end of the active, then "Clear of the active, taxiway Golf" describes where along taxiway Golf the ground controller might first look to spot the airplane.

Stating the taxiway I'm on is descriptive, stating the intersection of two taxiways is more descriptive. Except for the verbage ("clear of the active" vs "clearing runway one right"), British Pilot's example is just like those in the AIM.


The point is this - - communicate the location of the airplane. It's required by AIM. CFIse has done a fine job of presenting that case already.



If your mention of ORD is meant to suggest that we should disregard the guidance given in the AIM, then I suggest you are misguided. Certainly that extremely busy airport is not a good place to learn what is normal. However, the presence of Ground Metering is not envisioned when discussing normal communication with ground control either. If your point is that AIM guidance is invalid because of ORD, your point is moot.






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[TonyC]

Originally Posted by ColMustard

Just tell them an intersection and ATC should be able to find it.

"Clearing the active, Taxiway Golf" IS an intersection. (AND, it's like the examples given in AIM!)








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[Kingairer]

Come sit with me in the Jumpseat in ORD one day, and of course im not suggest we burn the AIM in effigy b/c of the presence of ORD. And my opinion is that "Clear of the active" is a wasted call. Sure it wont throw anyone for a loop, but its a wasted call in my opinion.




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[bob loblaw]

Originally Posted by TonyC

Without having an airport diagram of the location in question, I'm not sure exactly what is described. However, the question asked for an opinion, and I offered one based on a generic situation. If British Pilot's taxiway golf is only 50 feet long, then it only describes the direction pointing, towards, or away from the runway. If it's a longer taxiway, oh, say a parallel that is 8000 feet long and runs from the appraoch end of the active to the departure end of the active, then "Clear of the active, taxiway Golf" describes where along taxiway Golf the ground controller might first look to spot the airplane.

Stating the taxiway I'm on is descriptive, stating the intersection of two taxiways is more descriptive. Except for the verbage ("clear of the active" vs "clearing runway one right"), British Pilot's example is just like those in the AIM.


The point is this - - communicate the location of the airplane. It's required by AIM. CFIse has done a fine job of presenting that case already.



If your mention of ORD is meant to suggest that we should disregard the guidance given in the AIM, then I suggest you are misguided. Certainly that extremely busy airport is not a good place to learn what is normal. However, the presence of Ground Metering is not envisioned when discussing normal communication with ground control either. If your point is that AIM guidance is invalid because of ORD, your point is moot.






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Tony, Kingerror just likes to fall all over himself.

[TonyC]

Originally Posted by Kingairer

Come sit with me in the Jumpseat in ORD one day,...

I don't need to sit in your jumpseat, I operate into and out of ORD on a regular basis, thank you.

Tell ya what, I'll be the First Officer making the radio call, and you be the ground controller.


"FedEx 5470, Taxiway Tango, Southwest Cargo"


OK, now, give me taxi instructions.






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[Kingairer]

Figured thatd get ya wound up with extra arrogance.

Anyways, I as the ground controller, would be lost since you didnt say clear of the active Now im just kiddin ;-)

[TonyC]

Originally Posted by Kingairer

Figured thatd get ya wound up with extra arrogance.

Anyways, I as the ground controller, would be lost since you didnt say clear of the active Now im just kiddin ;-)

Then we agree that ORD is not a good place to explain a fundamental concept such as radio communication.









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[Dugie8]

Originally Posted by TonyC

Then we agree that ORD is not a good place to explain a fundamental concept such as radio communication.









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ORD isn't a good place to explain the fundamentals of the English language.

[British Pilot]

Thanks for all for your opinions and advice, particularly Tony C, CFIse.

[Kingairer]

Originally Posted by TonyC

Then we agree that ORD is not a good place to explain a fundamental concept such as radio communication.









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Which was my point all together, but you wanted to type alot, take up alot of space, and add words like misguided and moot.





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[OldTownPilot]

I say :

Bangor Ground, Cessna 4916B, clear of 33, taxiway Kilo, for GA ramp.

There is only one runway surface in BGR so the only active is 33. That is if tower and ground are on 2 different frequencies. However if one was at a airport, say PWM that has 2 runway surfaces that can both be active at the same time and has taxiways cross both runways, what do you do now? Getting in the habbit of proper radio phraseology is a very good thing. Just because it works at one aorport does not mean that it is OK for all.

[Chris_Ford]

Originally Posted by TonyC

If British Pilot's taxiway golf is only 50 feet long, then it only describes the direction pointing, towards, or away from the runway. If it's a longer taxiway, oh, say a parallel that is 8000 feet long and runs from the appraoch end of the active to the departure end of the active, then "Clear of the active, taxiway Golf" describes where along taxiway Golf the ground controller might first look to spot the airplane.

How many people do you know that put it in reverse to get off the runway? Of course the initial call by an aircraft to ground is going to have the airplane pointing away from the runway. And in the second part of your paragraph, there's got to be a taxiway to connect the parallel (hence its name) taxiway and the runway, and one should read that taxiway name as where they are located, unless you're just given free reign to keep rolling all the way to the ramp at your airport.

[TonyC]

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

And in the second part of your paragraph, there's got to be a taxiway to connect the parallel (hence its name) taxiway and the runway, and one should read that taxiway name as where they are located, ...

I can't count the number of airports where the parallel connects to the runway at both ends. I can exit Runway 21 at the end and be on Taxiway Alpha, or I can exit Rwy 03 at the end and be on Alpha. Or I can leave any of several non-movement areas and be on Alpha. Just stating Alpha is not as descriptive as "clearing Runway 21 on Alpha." If there's a non-movement area immediately adjacent to the Alpha at that end, I could be in the same place facing the runway and make the call, "On Alpha" and be factually correct, but less descriptive.


Hey, listen, if y'all don't like the way the AIM has it, you stand a much better chance of effecting change by taking it up with the FAA than you can by critiquing it on an internet message board.







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[Chris_Ford]

Originally Posted by TonyC

I can't count the number of airports where the parallel connects to the runway at both ends. I can exit Runway 21 at the end and be on Taxiway Alpha, or I can exit Rwy 03 at the end and be on Alpha. Or I can leave any of several non-movement areas and be on Alpha. Just stating Alpha is not as descriptive as "clearing Runway 21 on Alpha." If there's a non-movement area immediately adjacent to the Alpha at that end, I could be in the same place facing the runway and make the call, "On Alpha" and be factually correct, but less descriptive.

So you're saying that ground works 100% independently of tower and has no idea which runway is in use? Or are you just able to put it down on the numbers and make the taxiway immediately to your left or right? As for the non-movement area being adjacent to Alpha, wouldn't you call that "the ramp" or some other locale rather than alpha, since you're not technically on alpha? Also, when you put it in context, you'd likely say "N12345, at ramp taxi with Golf" or whatever ATIS, which would infer you're departing. Unless you guys like to repeat the ATIS code to everyone you talk to?