Radio Call - your opinion - Page 2

desertdog71 · April 17th, 2006, 20:58

WTF!!!

"Tulsa Ground, Skyhawk 881 clear of 18R at Charlie, request taxi to Mercury"

What is so hard about it.

At an uncontrolled airport with a single runway. "Down and Clear" or "clear the Active is Fine"

ORD may be different but I DOUBT IT.

TonyC · April 18th, 2006, 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

So you're saying that ground works 100% independently of tower and has no idea which runway is in use? Or are you just able to put it down on the numbers and make the taxiway immediately to your left or right?

As for the non-movement area being adjacent to Alpha, wouldn't you call that "the ramp" or some other locale rather than alpha, since you're not technically on alpha? Also, when you put it in context, you'd likely say "N12345, at ramp taxi with Golf" or whatever ATIS, which would infer you're departing. Unless you guys like to repeat the ATIS code to everyone you talk to?

Let's just cut to the chase.

Which part of the AIM guidance do you not like?

.

Chris_Ford · April 18th, 2006, 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyC

Let's just cut to the chase.

Which part of the AIM guidance do you not like?

The part where people think it's solid unchangable law and regulatory in nature, not that I'm naming names or anything

bike21 · April 18th, 2006, 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertdog71

WTF!!!

"Tulsa Ground, Skyhawk 881 clear of 18R at Charlie, request taxi to Mercury"

What is so hard about it.

At an uncontrolled airport with a single runway. "Down and Clear" or "clear the Active is Fine"

ORD may be different but I DOUBT IT.

Agree with you on the towerd statement.

But your uncontrolled field I must say once again it it too ambiguous. See my earlier post. "Clear the active" doesn't tell me if you just landed 15 or 33. Not that is a huge deal, but it can be a big help.

bob loblaw · April 18th, 2006, 09:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by bike21

Agree with you on the towerd statement.

But your uncontrolled field I must say once again it it too ambiguous. See my earlier post. "Clear the active" doesn't tell me if you just landed 15 or 33. Not that is a huge deal, but it can be a big help.

Why repeat the runway in use if there are numerous aircraft in the pattern. If he was alone in the pattern, he can say "clear runway 29." But otherwise a pilot 20 miles out listening to the CTAF could determine the runway in use by the other aircraft making pattern leg calls while in the pattern. Common sense guys...Common sense.

BobDDuck · April 18th, 2006, 13:05

If you are taking to ground chances are you are off the runway or at least exiting it. At a non controlled airport, making the "clear of the runway" call is a a curtisy to ther people coming in or taking off. Remember, there are some runways where you can't see one end from the other and somebody holding short up at the top would like to you when you are off.

Doug Taylor · April 18th, 2006, 13:56

I don't think it even matters all that much.

In fact, I just said "Airliner 1152 clear of 16R for Charlie Three" about 30 minutes ago.

bike21 · April 18th, 2006, 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob loblaw

Why repeat the runway in use if there are numerous aircraft in the pattern. If he was alone in the pattern, he can say "clear runway 29." But otherwise a pilot 20 miles out listening to the CTAF could determine the runway in use by the other aircraft making pattern leg calls while in the pattern. Common sense guys...Common sense.

Of course. I guess I could have been more specific if you are alone in the pattern. Or it could be helpful for the guy around the corner coming out of the hangars. Ok I'm done now

frog_flyer · April 18th, 2006, 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

I don't think it even matters all that much.

In fact, I just said "Airliner 1152 clear of 16R for Charlie Three" about 30 minutes ago.

doug, can you get me an inteview with airliner airways?!

kellwolf · April 18th, 2006, 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyC

I can't count the number of airports where the parallel connects to the runway at both ends.

Um, wouldn't that be perpendicular? Either that or a parallel taxiway has to be connected by another taxiway (something like M6 connecting 18R with N with N being the parallel taxiway). In that case unless towered told you to go to N, you'd stop on M6 and tell ground that's where you are. Odds are the ground controller doesn't even NEED a taxiway diagram to know where you are. He deals with that area every day the way pilots deal with the overhead panel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob loblaw

But otherwise a pilot 20 miles out listening to the CTAF could determine the runway in use by the other aircraft making pattern leg calls while in the pattern. Common sense guys...Common sense.

You've never flown in GKY, have ya?

Common sense isn't so common around there. You could have 15 guys making radio calls for 34 and there will be some yahoo call downwind for 16.

ColMustard · April 18th, 2006, 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

The part where people think it's solid unchangable law and regulatory in nature, not that I'm naming names or anything

I agree Chris. While the AIM is perhaps the best FAA publication, it is NOT regulatory. I've seen a lot of folks quote it like it has a regulatory jurisdiction and it drives me nuts! Unless it relates to the FARs, it is not regulatory, though probably a good suggestion.

I believe the AIM serves a vital role in helping pilots and controllers operate safely and on the same page, but there is always a grey area where a little intuition and experience on behalf of the pilot is necessary.

-ColM

Chris_Ford · April 18th, 2006, 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColMustard

I agree Chris.

Well, you're going to have to change your opinion. Agreeing with me isn't permitted on this board

MikeD · April 18th, 2006, 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

I don't think it even matters all that much.

In fact, I just said "Airliner 1152 clear of 16R for Charlie Three" about 30 minutes ago.

Amen. Same as I use, with the exception of no "airliner", lol.

I'm all about clear/comcise/correct comm....everyone round here knows that. But once that's met, everything else from there is style.

The arguments over the radio transmission in question are seemingly ones of semantics. Not that that's wrong, it's interesting to see everyone's techniques and thoughts, but the intent and spirit of C3 is being met here, IMO.

CapnJim · April 18th, 2006, 17:10

Wake me up when the subjet changes to drinkin or wimmen.

<CapnJim leans the seat back, pulls up rollaway sunshade, studies overhead panel>
*snore*

MikeD · April 18th, 2006, 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapnJim

Wake me up when the subjet changes to drinkin or wimmen.

<CapnJim leans the seat back, pulls up rollaway sunshade, studies overhead panel>
*snore*

Bored are we?

CapnJim · April 18th, 2006, 17:34

Naah, I was just bein' a smarta** about the technique thread.

TonyC · April 18th, 2006, 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

The part where people think it's solid unchangable law and regulatory in nature, not that I'm naming names or anything

Yeah, yeah, it's not regulatory. Lemme know when you plan to use that as a defense for ignoring its guidance at that hearing - - I wanna see how well it works.

.

CapnJim · April 18th, 2006, 17:51

Hate to be the one to say it Tony, but it'd prolly end in a "letter of no action" That is, of course, if no FARS were broken and the FAA dosen't have sufficent evidence to prosecute otherwise.

That said, most of the AIM is damn good guidance, ignored by fools.

TonyC · April 18th, 2006, 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Um, wouldn't that be perpendicular? Either that or a parallel taxiway has to be connected by another taxiway (something like M6 connecting 18R with N with N being the parallel taxiway).

Umm, nope. I meant exactly what I said, and said exactly what I meant.

Let's see, right off the top of my head, and from the past month's worth of flying, here's Great Falls International, Montana:

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0604/00177AD.PDF

Notice Taxiway Alpha parallels Rwy 03/21, and it intersects the runway at both ends.

While we're in Montana, how about Billings Logan International:

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0604/00048AD.PDF

Again, Taxiway Alpha winds along, roughly parallel to Runway 10L/28R, and it intersects the same runway at both ends.

Charleston AFB/International is landing south - - you report, "Clear of the active on Charlie" Which direction are you pointing?

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0604/00076AD.PDF

Whicita Mid-Continent, KS: http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0604/00987AD.PDF
Taxiway Delta parallels 01L/19R and intersects the same runway at both ends.

OK, this copy and paste thing is getting boring.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellwolf

You've never flown in GKY, have ya?

Common sense isn't so common around there. You could have 15 guys making radio calls for 34 and there will be some yahoo call downwind for 16.

No, I haven't flown into Arlington Muni. What's your point? Is Arlington the exception to the AIM that makes its guidance invalid?

.

Chris_Ford · April 18th, 2006, 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyC

Umm, nope. I meant exactly what I said, and said exactly what I meant.

Let's see, right off the top of my head, and from the past month's worth of flying, here's Great Falls International, Montana:

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0604/00177AD.PDF

Notice Taxiway Alpha parallels Rwy 03/21, and it intersects the runway at both ends.

While we're in Montana, how about Billings Logan International:

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0604/00048AD.PDF

Again, Taxiway Alpha winds along, roughly parallel to Runway 10L/28R, and it intersects the same runway at both ends.

Charleston AFB/International is landing south - - you report, "Clear of the active on Charlie" Which direction are you pointing?

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0604/00076AD.PDF

Whicita Mid-Continent, KS: http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0604/00987AD.PDF
Taxiway Delta parallels 01L/19R and intersects the same runway at both ends.

OK, this copy and paste thing is getting boring.

How quick we are to forget that the ground controller can likely see you. Ever been wrong in your life about anything Tony? I wonder if you fly with your "I'm always right" attitude. Must be wonderful to be an FO

CapnJim · April 18th, 2006, 18:25

Chris, I hate to be the one to say it, but your online persona dosen't exactly translate to "FO of the Year" either.

But I'll say this: You guys are fun as hell to watch spar!

TonyC · April 18th, 2006, 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

Ever been wrong in your life about anything Tony?

Plenty of times.

Once I thought I was mistaken, but I was wrong...

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Seriously, I'm only defending what the AIM says, and I feel like I'm on rather solid ground. I'd be more than happy to entertain your serious arguments to the contrary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

I wonder if you fly with your "I'm always right" attitude.

Since I have no such attitude, I guess I can't fly with it. If you're offended by my persistence on this subject, I'm sorry. I don't mind standing up for principles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

Must be wonderful to be an FO

It was a great job while it lasted. Even with the walk-arounds and the coffee jug, it wasn't that hard. Even so, I prefer the job I have now.

.

Kingairer · April 18th, 2006, 19:01

Im going to attempt to add every aggravating radio slang or phraseolgy in one transmission...

"Aannnnnd Ground Top of the morning to ya, Airliners' 1234 checkin in with ya clear of the active"

.

TonyC · April 18th, 2006, 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingairer

Im going to attempt to add every aggravating radio slang or phraseolgy in one transmission...

"Aannnnnd Ground Top of the morning to ya, Airliners' 1234 checkin in with ya clear of the active"

You forgot, "on Dixie."

.

CapnJim · April 18th, 2006, 19:03

Uh-oh! You know things are really heating up when Tony gets a-goin on a Super Quote-a-thon!

Meantime, Chris was a-cookin' up a smarmy comeback... and it wenta lil' sump'n like this-
(hit it!)

April 17th, 2006, 20:58	#26
desertdog71 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: KIDP/KCNU Posts: 3,006	WTF!!! "Tulsa Ground, Skyhawk 881 clear of 18R at Charlie, request taxi to Mercury" What is so hard about it. At an uncontrolled airport with a single runway. "Down and Clear" or "clear the Active is Fine" ORD may be different but I DOUBT IT. __________________ www.flywhiteair.com http://www.myspace.com/desertdog71 Following message is for SkyCougar. Took my chances on a big jet plane, Never let them tell you that they're all the same.

April 18th, 2006, 13:05	#31
BobDDuck Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Left Seat Posts: 5,564	If you are taking to ground chances are you are off the runway or at least exiting it. At a non controlled airport, making the "clear of the runway" call is a a curtisy to ther people coming in or taking off. Remember, there are some runways where you can't see one end from the other and somebody holding short up at the top would like to you when you are off. __________________ TBJC08 The Gear Monkey The Gear Monkey Store

April 18th, 2006, 13:56	#32
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 40,600 Blog Entries: 1	I don't think it even matters all that much. In fact, I just said "Airliner 1152 clear of 16R for Charlie Three" about 30 minutes ago. __________________ Doug Taylor http://76school.flyblog.com (old!) http://30west.flyblog.com (updated 11/28)

April 18th, 2006, 19:01	#48
Kingairer Old Skool Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Nomadic...World Wide Boobie Bungalow Bouncer Posts: 3,172	Im going to attempt to add every aggravating radio slang or phraseolgy in one transmission... "Aannnnnd Ground Top of the morning to ya, Airliners' 1234 checkin in with ya clear of the active" . __________________ "I do not proofread"

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April 18th, 2006, 17:10	#39
CapnJim Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: All up in Cantubury, tellin' tales. Posts: 4,444	Wake me up when the subjet changes to drinkin or wimmen. <CapnJim leans the seat back, pulls up rollaway sunshade, studies overhead panel> snore

April 18th, 2006, 17:34	#41
CapnJim Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: All up in Cantubury, tellin' tales. Posts: 4,444	Naah, I was just bein' a smarta** about the technique thread.

April 18th, 2006, 17:51	#43
CapnJim Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: All up in Cantubury, tellin' tales. Posts: 4,444	Hate to be the one to say it Tony, but it'd prolly end in a "letter of no action" That is, of course, if no FARS were broken and the FAA dosen't have sufficent evidence to prosecute otherwise. That said, most of the AIM is damn good guidance, ignored by fools.

April 18th, 2006, 18:25	#46
CapnJim Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: All up in Cantubury, tellin' tales. Posts: 4,444	Chris, I hate to be the one to say it, but your online persona dosen't exactly translate to "FO of the Year" either. But I'll say this: You guys are fun as hell to watch spar!

April 18th, 2006, 19:03	#50
CapnJim Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: All up in Cantubury, tellin' tales. Posts: 4,444	Uh-oh! You know things are really heating up when Tony gets a-goin on a Super Quote-a-thon! Meantime, Chris was a-cookin' up a smarmy comeback... and it wenta lil' sump'n like this- (hit it!)