The Gouge On Training At Flight Express!!

mtsu_av8er · April 6th, 2006, 22:19

Well, as everybody knows, I’ve been down in Orlando for the last two weeks for training at Flight Express. I figured I’d go ahead and give everybody the gouge now that the training is over.

Training begins on a Monday morning at 0900, and you show up wearing a white shirt and solid, dark tie. This is the only day that you have to wear this attire. The rules thereafter are shirts with collars, clean, neat, jeans are ok – but not with rips, holes, etc.

The first couple of hours are consumed with massive amounts of paperwork. Believe me, there is a lot. Several breakdowns of flight time (for FAA files, insurance company, etc), aircraft flown, previous employers, background checks, more background check, etc, etc. It really does take about 3 hours just for the paperwork. While you’re writing your life away, you’ll also take a photo for your company badge – which will be issued after you’ve passed your checkride. Also a logbook review.

Once the paperwork is done, you’ll break for lunch. One hour. There are plenty of places to go nearby, so there’s no problem getting chow.

After lunch, Mr. Austin Collins – The Manager of Training – introduces himself and the training program. They’re not shy about the fact that it’s an incredibly difficult program. It’s almost as if they want to scare you away from the company. At the same time, there are no surprises. In the beginning, I thought that perhaps they were exaggerating the diffuculty of the training, but it’s pretty tough. To quote them nearly word for word: If, on day one, you aren’t able to pass both an instrument and commercial checkride, in a high performance, complex, single engine aircraft, in extremely busy airspace, then you really don’t have any business there. There is ABSOULUTELY no real flight training while you’re here. The flight training will consist of at least 6 hours of instruction in the aircraft, followed by a checkride. You’re, in effect, getting checked out in the C-210. If you’re thinking about coming here, be prepared for that.

I digress . . .

Mr. Collins issues everyone a copy of the Federal Transportation regs as they relate to HAZMAT and the like, an Emergency Response Guide, a copy of the OPS SPECS, and a copy of the POH for the Cessna 210L. Training guide? You’re responsible for bringing that with you. If you go to Austin Collins’ personal website, you can download and print everything else that you will need for training. Don’t be “that guy” that doesn’t have it.

On day one, you’ll be taught the training requirements of Part 135, find out how FLX fits into the regs, and which regs apply to FLX. You’re also given a training schedule, telling you what will be taught on each day. You’ll watch a couple of films, too. Then, on day one, you’ll take a written test on basic instrument and commercial material. It’s pretty thorough, 60 questions, and you need at least 70% to pass. Some folks whip a$*, and others are humbled.

For the rest of the week, there are classes on Icing, Part 135 flight planning, rest and duty limits, maintenance requirements (No MELs – YEAH!!!), company procedures, and de-icing/anti-icing equipment. There are also classes on HAZMAT, ATC communication, and some quick C-210 differences training (for all of the weird things that we have out on the line).

There’s a written test daily on the material from the previous day. 70% to pass each. There is quite a bit to study on each day. Some of the most challenging subjects are the rest time requirements and part 135 flight planning. Tough stuff!! On Friday morning, there’s a final exam, a 60 question test covering EVERYTHING that was covered, and some things that aren’t. Everything in the POH is fair game, as is the OPS SPECS and basic IFR/Commercial knowledge. If you fail the written, you can pack your bags.

Flight training begins on Sunday or Monday. There are only two instructors, and some folks end up waiting to fly. Written test scores determine base selection, and even that can be over-ridden by the needs of the company. In my class, they absolutely had to fill a Kansas City run, and a Cincy run. I didn’t bid for either one of them, as I got to choose my base. However, 2 out of the 4 people in my class washed out in the flight training, so I ended up having to go to Kansas City to fill that run. Welcome to Aviation – you bust your butt, and you get shafted!! J

The flight training consists of three flights, and your checkride. By the time you jump into the aircraft, you’d better know EVERY SINGLE FLOW from the Flight Training Handbook. I can’t imagine trying to learn the flows as you go, AND keep up with the airplane. If you’re flown the 210, you’ll know that it’s not a slow airplane by any means. No autopilot in our fleet, no GPS, just two VORs, an ADF and a handful with DME. It’s hardcore instrument flying.

First flight is all airwork. Slow flight, stalls, steep turns, emergency procedures, and a lot of trying to keep up with the aircraft. You can bet on an instrument approach at the end.

Second flight is traffic pattern work. Go-arounds, aborted takeoffs, and short field landings. No-flap takeoffs & landings, and LAHSO.

Third flight is all instrument work. You’ll do holds, multiple approaches, partial panel, missed approaches, circling approaches, Back-course approaches – if the company can do it, you’ll do it.

Then the checkride. Just like any checkride, just harder. The hardest checkride I’ve ever taken – harder even then my CFI or Instrument checkrides. It was kind of like a CFI chckride (you have to vocalize all of the flows) combined with a CFI-I checkride. And long. And it was hot. And, wouldn’t you know it – the airvent in my airplane had just been repaired, but wouldn’t blow any air on me! By the time I landed at the end, I was being blinded by sweat!!!

All in all, it’s a great challenge. You feel like you can do anything by the end, and you’re pretty nervous about the fact that the company will expect you to be able to do anything!! This is going to be a fun ride!!! J

Some demographics from my class:*

There were four candidates in my class. One was about 23, a product of ERAU. He was married, and was a Flight Instructor at an Air Force flying club in Ohio. He’d been through a 135 training class before. His test score was the highest, and he ultimately passed with no problems.

One was a 30 year-old (turned 31 during training) product of MTSU. Single, former military, and was the Assistant Chief Flight Instructor at a Part 141 flight school in Tennessee. His test score was the second highest in the class. He ultimately passed with no problem.

One was a guy of about 22 years old. Freelanced, owned his own airplane, Kind of worked for himself. He also went to China for a couple of months to work for a flight school over there (said school has been discussed in the forums). He didn’t like the fact that he didn’t get to fly much in China, and quit. Got hired by FLX. Test scores were good on some days, bad on others. He was frustrated by the pace that the instructor expected him to perform in the airplane. He washed out on the first flight.

The fourth Candidate was a retired school teacher from Ohio. He was 54 years old, and a product of Airline Training Academy. He Did some part-time instruction up in Ohio, a little here and a little there. He had 1700 hours and 20 multi. Made it to the third flight, and fell apart pretty badly with the instrument work. He had trouble multi-tasking in congested airspace. He’s going back to instructing.

Again, folks – know your stuff before you come to a place like this, don’t take anything personally, and be prepared to stay up late to study!!!

*I’m in no way implying that any of these demographics had ANYTHING to do with the success or failure of any candidate.

Mr_Creepy · April 6th, 2006, 22:25

Let's talk! Hey we are back on for tomorrow night - around 830pm

mtsu_av8er · April 6th, 2006, 22:27

Hey, John - looks like I'm going to have to head out in the morning. After waiting 5 days to start training, I have to hurry up and get up to KC by Monday!!!

Now, that's an efficient way to do it . . .

JEP · April 6th, 2006, 22:39

Quote:

One was a 30 year-old (turned 31 during training) product of MTSU. Single, former military, and was the Assistant Chief Flight Instructor at a Part 141 flight school in Tennessee. His test score was the second highest in the class. He ultimately passed with no problem.

Who was this guy, he must be hot S#$%?

Enjoy the ride ! As for the no GPS, do they care or have any rules against having a hand-held GPS in the aircraft?

Mr_Creepy · April 6th, 2006, 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Hey, John - looks like I'm going to have to head out in the morning. After waiting 5 days to start training, I have to hurry up and get up to KC by Monday!!!

Now, that's an efficient way to do it . . .

Well you'll be back, so call me when you come back to town.

We need a good cook

mtsu_av8er · April 6th, 2006, 22:42

Oh, I'll definately be back, John!! I'm going to try to get some TDY down here this summer!!

Maximillian_Jenius · April 6th, 2006, 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Oh, I'll definately be back, John!! I'm going to try to get some TDY down here this summer!!

Wow Lloyd...sounds tuff man? Would you say that this training program is more difficult then an airline (regional) 121 training program?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Welcome to Aviation – you bust your butt, and then you get shafted!!

I know people that would actually pay for that!

Maximillian_Jenius · April 6th, 2006, 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstu_av8r

Welcome to Aviation – you bust your butt, and you get shafted!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

I know people that would actually to pay for that!

And by that I mean Gulftream perverts...and lets keep it clean on the conversation topic related!

JEP · April 6th, 2006, 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

Wow Lloyd...sounds tuff man? Would you say that this training program is more difficult then an airline (regional) 121 training program?

I know people that would actually pay for that!

Max, Max, Max.....Unless Lloyd isn't telling us something he would have no 1st hand knowledge of a 121 regional training?

Maximillian_Jenius · April 6th, 2006, 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by JEP

Max, Max, Max.....Unless Lloyd isn't telling us something he would have no 1st hand knowledge of a 121 regional training?

Yea...but I'm sure he knows other pilots who fly for regionals and or read gouges and can compare and contrast training!

BobDDuck · April 6th, 2006, 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

Yea...but I'm sure he knows other pilots who fly for regionals and or read gouges and can compare and contrast training!

Just because you can read romance novels and have friends who are straight couples, can you compare gay and straight relationships?

KLB · April 7th, 2006, 00:25

Congrats Lloyd. Reading you, kellwolf, and R2F's experiences is giving me so much motivation as I get closer and closer to getting to that next level myself.

The 210 is an awesome aircraft. I got to ferry one last week. I couldn't believe how well it performed. I was cruising at about a 180kts indicated and wasn't even pushing it hard.

AP2B · April 7th, 2006, 00:45

Great read, and thanks for the gouge. Congrats on finishing up training. Do freight outfits have any IOE type training?

Maximillian_Jenius · April 7th, 2006, 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

Just because you can read romance novels and have friends who are straight couples, can you compare gay and straight relationships?

There are MANY parrallels between both gay & straight relationships. But yes there are also minuscule differences as well. I guess just like 121 & 135 indoc training.

Not to short changing R2F and Kellwolf but Lloyd's training gouge did sound a lil more difficult in comparison. Maybe due to the lack of technology in the aircraft at Flight Express (lack of autopilot,GPS,TCAS etc) and the whole hard IFR single pilot!

E_Dawg · April 7th, 2006, 01:18

Congrats Lloyd! Enjoy the sea of paperwork you will soon be swimming through to get to your airplane

EatSleepFly · April 7th, 2006, 02:10

Congrats, Lloyd!!!

Captain_Bob · April 7th, 2006, 02:31

Lloyd,

I didn't know you were a retired school teacher??? ...and man, you look great for 54!

Congrats!

Nick · April 7th, 2006, 02:43

Congratulations on successfully getting through training Lloyd. Great gouge there.

Looking forward to reading a-day-in-the-life at Flight Express sometime!

Maximillian_Jenius · April 7th, 2006, 04:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick

Congratulations on successfully getting through training Lloyd. Great gouge there.

Looking forward to reading a-day-in-the-life at Flight Express sometime!

You mean a night in a life right?

Texasspilot · April 7th, 2006, 08:33

congrats...but did i read that your company doesn't have MEL's?

mtsu_av8er · April 7th, 2006, 09:46

That's right - no MEL's!

Texasspilot · April 7th, 2006, 10:17

I'm kinda interested to hear how that works. Either they have the worlds best MX or there comes a time when they might ask you to fly a broken airplane. I've only heard good things about FLX so I hope its not the latter.

One thing I always tell guys who are starting thier first 135 gig is that you have to understand what everyones job is.

Its managements job to get the stuff delivered any way they can.

Its the pilots job to keep management in check and CYA. I don't know how good they pay...but it surely isn't enough to replace all the time/effort that went into getting you were youre at. Something as simple as a panel light out, missing screw, nav-light inop, non-stop drilled crack etc.. are all things that can and have gotten peoples tickets pulled.

Its the mechanics job to....well patrol the internet, smoke, and tell really dirty jokes

welcome and keep us updated.

NJA_Capt · April 7th, 2006, 12:20

Congrats on becoming a Freight Puppy!

Thanks for the stroll down memory lane. It has been 10+ years since I sat in that room in ORL. It sounds like you are off to a good start. Do they still like to demonstrate stalls in a 60 degree turn (C210)? That was a hoot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

No autopilot in our fleet, no GPS, just two VORs, an ADF and a handful with DME. It’s hardcore instrument flying.

Nobody can discount the challenge of flying freight. There is nobody in the other seat (there isn't even a second seat) to help out. There is no autopilot to flick on when things get busy or hairy. It is just you and the airplane. You are going to gain more experience in the next six months than anyone who went straight from a SE to a RJ will in their career.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

And it was hot. And, wouldn’t you know it – the airvent in my airplane had just been repaired, but wouldn’t blow any air on me! By the time I landed at the end, I was being blinded by sweat!!!

C210s in the summer and windows that don't open. Yes, it seems that hinged right side windows were an option. Many of FLX's C210s have "fixed" position windows.

Words from those that went before:
Be safe and don't be pushed.
Carry a small notebook and keep notes on what you see and feel in flight (when its safe). I made a few entries like this from my freight dog days and it is very inspiring to go back and read these notes. I wish I had written more.

And stay away from the vending machines!!!!!!

Kristie · April 7th, 2006, 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Oh, I'll definately be back, John!! I'm going to try to get some TDY down here this summer!!

ummm this is getting kinda weird! Tenny and Lloyd getting along, all flirty and stuff....I dunno how to take this in yet.. hhahahaha

but i have to admit, it is kinda cute watching you two flirt....hehe

btw congrats on making it thru training lloyd!! we have yet another beer to buy at NJC! make sure you get that time off otherwise "no beea fo u"

Doug Taylor · April 7th, 2006, 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kristie

but i have to admit, it is kinda cute watching you two flirt....hehe

I know! awwww!

April 6th, 2006, 22:19	#1
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,590	The Gouge On Training At Flight Express!! Well, as everybody knows, I’ve been down in Orlando for the last two weeks for training at Flight Express. I figured I’d go ahead and give everybody the gouge now that the training is over. Training begins on a Monday morning at 0900, and you show up wearing a white shirt and solid, dark tie. This is the only day that you have to wear this attire. The rules thereafter are shirts with collars, clean, neat, jeans are ok – but not with rips, holes, etc. The first couple of hours are consumed with massive amounts of paperwork. Believe me, there is a lot. Several breakdowns of flight time (for FAA files, insurance company, etc), aircraft flown, previous employers, background checks, more background check, etc, etc. It really does take about 3 hours just for the paperwork. While you’re writing your life away, you’ll also take a photo for your company badge – which will be issued after you’ve passed your checkride. Also a logbook review. Once the paperwork is done, you’ll break for lunch. One hour. There are plenty of places to go nearby, so there’s no problem getting chow. After lunch, Mr. Austin Collins – The Manager of Training – introduces himself and the training program. They’re not shy about the fact that it’s an incredibly difficult program. It’s almost as if they want to scare you away from the company. At the same time, there are no surprises. In the beginning, I thought that perhaps they were exaggerating the diffuculty of the training, but it’s pretty tough. To quote them nearly word for word: If, on day one, you aren’t able to pass both an instrument and commercial checkride, in a high performance, complex, single engine aircraft, in extremely busy airspace, then you really don’t have any business there. There is ABSOULUTELY no real flight training while you’re here. The flight training will consist of at least 6 hours of instruction in the aircraft, followed by a checkride. You’re, in effect, getting checked out in the C-210. If you’re thinking about coming here, be prepared for that. I digress . . . Mr. Collins issues everyone a copy of the Federal Transportation regs as they relate to HAZMAT and the like, an Emergency Response Guide, a copy of the OPS SPECS, and a copy of the POH for the Cessna 210L. Training guide? You’re responsible for bringing that with you. If you go to Austin Collins’ personal website, you can download and print everything else that you will need for training. Don’t be “that guy” that doesn’t have it. On day one, you’ll be taught the training requirements of Part 135, find out how FLX fits into the regs, and which regs apply to FLX. You’re also given a training schedule, telling you what will be taught on each day. You’ll watch a couple of films, too. Then, on day one, you’ll take a written test on basic instrument and commercial material. It’s pretty thorough, 60 questions, and you need at least 70% to pass. Some folks whip a$, and others are humbled. For the rest of the week, there are classes on Icing, Part 135 flight planning, rest and duty limits, maintenance requirements (No MELs – YEAH!!!), company procedures, and de-icing/anti-icing equipment. There are also classes on HAZMAT, ATC communication, and some quick C-210 differences training (for all of the weird things that we have out on the line). There’s a written test daily on the material from the previous day. 70% to pass each. There is quite a bit to study on each day. Some of the most challenging subjects are the rest time requirements and part 135 flight planning. Tough stuff!! On Friday morning, there’s a final exam, a 60 question test covering EVERYTHING that was covered, and some things that aren’t. Everything in the POH is fair game, as is the OPS SPECS and basic IFR/Commercial knowledge. If you fail the written, you can pack your bags. Flight training begins on Sunday or Monday. There are only two instructors, and some folks end up waiting to fly. Written test scores determine base selection, and even that can be over-ridden by the needs of the company. In my class, they absolutely had to fill a Kansas City run, and a Cincy run. I didn’t bid for either one of them, as I got to choose my base. However, 2 out of the 4 people in my class washed out in the flight training, so I ended up having to go to Kansas City to fill that run. Welcome to Aviation – you bust your butt, and you get shafted!! J The flight training consists of three flights, and your checkride. By the time you jump into the aircraft, you’d better know EVERY SINGLE FLOW from the Flight Training Handbook. I can’t imagine trying to learn the flows as you go, AND keep up with the airplane. If you’re flown the 210, you’ll know that it’s not a slow airplane by any means. No autopilot in our fleet, no GPS, just two VORs, an ADF and a handful with DME. It’s hardcore instrument flying. First flight is all airwork. Slow flight, stalls, steep turns, emergency procedures, and a lot of trying to keep up with the aircraft. You can bet on an instrument approach at the end. Second flight is traffic pattern work. Go-arounds, aborted takeoffs, and short field landings. No-flap takeoffs & landings, and LAHSO. Third flight is all instrument work. You’ll do holds, multiple approaches, partial panel, missed approaches, circling approaches, Back-course approaches – if the company can do it, you’ll do it. Then the checkride. Just like any checkride, just harder. The hardest checkride I’ve ever taken – harder even then my CFI or Instrument checkrides. It was kind of like a CFI chckride (you have to vocalize all of the flows) combined with a CFI-I checkride. And long. And it was hot. And, wouldn’t you know it – the airvent in my airplane had just been repaired, but wouldn’t blow any air on me! By the time I landed at the end, I was being blinded by sweat!!! All in all, it’s a great challenge. You feel like you can do anything by the end, and you’re pretty nervous about the fact that the company will expect you to be able to do anything!! This is going to be a fun ride!!! J Some demographics from my class: There were four candidates in my class. One was about 23, a product of ERAU. He was married, and was a Flight Instructor at an Air Force flying club in Ohio. He’d been through a 135 training class before. His test score was the highest, and he ultimately passed with no problems. One was a 30 year-old (turned 31 during training) product of MTSU. Single, former military, and was the Assistant Chief Flight Instructor at a Part 141 flight school in Tennessee. His test score was the second highest in the class. He ultimately passed with no problem. One was a guy of about 22 years old. Freelanced, owned his own airplane, Kind of worked for himself. He also went to China for a couple of months to work for a flight school over there (said school has been discussed in the forums). He didn’t like the fact that he didn’t get to fly much in China, and quit. Got hired by FLX. Test scores were good on some days, bad on others. He was frustrated by the pace that the instructor expected him to perform in the airplane. He washed out on the first flight. The fourth Candidate was a retired school teacher from Ohio. He was 54 years old, and a product of Airline Training Academy. He Did some part-time instruction up in Ohio, a little here and a little there. He had 1700 hours and 20 multi. Made it to the third flight, and fell apart pretty badly with the instrument work. He had trouble multi-tasking in congested airspace. He’s going back to instructing. Again, folks – know your stuff before you come to a place like this, don’t take anything personally, and be prepared to stay up late to study!!! *I’m in no way implying that any of these demographics had ANYTHING to do with the success or failure of any candidate. __________________ Ike is one nasty storm, and it's all the fault of management. That's why we need ALPA.

April 6th, 2006, 22:25	#2
Mr_Creepy Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone Posts: 5,810	Let's talk! Hey we are back on for tomorrow night - around 830pm __________________ "You know you're winning an argument with a liberal when they start calling you names" johntenney.com The PEO Message Myspace My Business - PEO Pros

April 6th, 2006, 22:27	#3
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,590	Hey, John - looks like I'm going to have to head out in the morning. After waiting 5 days to start training, I have to hurry up and get up to KC by Monday!!! Now, that's an efficient way to do it . . . __________________ Ike is one nasty storm, and it's all the fault of management. That's why we need ALPA.

April 6th, 2006, 22:42	#6
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,590	Oh, I'll definately be back, John!! I'm going to try to get some TDY down here this summer!! __________________ Ike is one nasty storm, and it's all the fault of management. That's why we need ALPA.

April 7th, 2006, 01:18	#15
E_Dawg Moderator Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: chicago Posts: 4,311	Congrats Lloyd! Enjoy the sea of paperwork you will soon be swimming through to get to your airplane __________________ Yeah, I just stare at my desk; but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch, too. I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work.

April 7th, 2006, 00:25	#12
KLB Old Skool Join Date: May 2005 Location: DFW Posts: 3,003	Congrats Lloyd. Reading you, kellwolf, and R2F's experiences is giving me so much motivation as I get closer and closer to getting to that next level myself. The 210 is an awesome aircraft. I got to ferry one last week. I couldn't believe how well it performed. I was cruising at about a 180kts indicated and wasn't even pushing it hard.

April 7th, 2006, 00:45	#13
AP2B Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The IND SOC / TYQ Posts: 659	Great read, and thanks for the gouge. Congrats on finishing up training. Do freight outfits have any IOE type training?

April 7th, 2006, 02:10	#16
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,600	Congrats, Lloyd!!!

April 7th, 2006, 02:31	#17
Captain_Bob Old Skool Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: DFW, based back in EWR, wishing I was in Maine Posts: 3,944	Lloyd, I didn't know you were a retired school teacher??? ...and man, you look great for 54! Congrats! __________________ My head is in the clouds and my heart is still in Maine... but my devotion and love belong to my wife and children. Pics!

April 7th, 2006, 02:43	#18
Nick Old Skool Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 2,523	Congratulations on successfully getting through training Lloyd. Great gouge there. Looking forward to reading a-day-in-the-life at Flight Express sometime! __________________ Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress in this period in history.

April 7th, 2006, 08:33	#20
Texasspilot Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,080	congrats...but did i read that your company doesn't have MEL's?

April 7th, 2006, 09:46	#21
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,590	That's right - no MEL's! __________________ Ike is one nasty storm, and it's all the fault of management. That's why we need ALPA.

April 7th, 2006, 10:17	#22
Texasspilot Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,080	I'm kinda interested to hear how that works. Either they have the worlds best MX or there comes a time when they might ask you to fly a broken airplane. I've only heard good things about FLX so I hope its not the latter. One thing I always tell guys who are starting thier first 135 gig is that you have to understand what everyones job is. Its managements job to get the stuff delivered any way they can. Its the pilots job to keep management in check and CYA. I don't know how good they pay...but it surely isn't enough to replace all the time/effort that went into getting you were youre at. Something as simple as a panel light out, missing screw, nav-light inop, non-stop drilled crack etc.. are all things that can and have gotten peoples tickets pulled. Its the mechanics job to....well patrol the internet, smoke, and tell really dirty jokes welcome and keep us updated.

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