Ramp Check/W&B

slushie · April 5th, 2006, 19:09

My understanding is that during a ramp check, the only info you must present is the aircrafts Weight and Balance information.

But would you also be asked for your calculations for the specific flight?

rausda27 · April 5th, 2006, 20:31

I have been ramped twice. Both times they asked to see current pilot certificates and medical. During one ramp check they asked to see ALL the aircraft documents incuding airworthiness, registration and aircraft manuals. To answer your question, I would suspect that the official aircraft W&B with all installed euipment dated and signed by a A&P would suffice, but I suppose the FAA could ask for anything pertaining to:

Sec. 91.103

Preflight action.

Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become familiar with all available information concerning that flight. This information must include--
(a) For a flight under IFR or a flight not in the vicinity of an airport, weather reports and forecasts, fuel requirements, alternatives available if the planned flight cannot be completed, and any known traffic delays of which the pilot in command has been advised by ATC;
(b) For any flight, runway lengths at airports of intended use, and the following takeoff and landing distance information:
(1) For civil aircraft for which an approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual containing takeoff and landing distance data is required, the takeoff and landing distance data contained therein; and
(2) For civil aircraft other than those specified in paragraph (b)(1) of this section, other reliable information appropriate to the aircraft, relating to aircraft performance under expected values of airport elevation and runway slope, aircraft gross weight, and wind and temperature

NightCargo · April 5th, 2006, 20:43

Been ramped four times while working for a 135 cargo operator (I know, lucky me). I each one they wanted to see the standard certificates, medical, etc.

On two of them, they wanted to see the weight and balance forms that I had completed for the flight I had just arrived on. Then they checked my flight manuals, Ops Specs, Company Manual, Charts, previous weight and balance calculations (our company required that we carry the aircraft's previous 30 days worth), MEL, etc. Now this was for a 135 operation, but I don't know about a 91 ramp check.

My connecting cargo from another aircraft finally arrived so I told them I had to leave, but they were certainly digging for something! Never chance that you aren't going to get ramped. ALWAYS do your weight and balance, check weather and make sure you are current for the flight . . . then you have nothing to worry about!!

slushie · April 6th, 2006, 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightCargo

ALWAYS do your weight and balance, check weather and make sure you are current for the flight . . . then you have nothing to worry about!!

Good deal.

It seems as I got more into advanced training, the flight instructors payed no worry to w/b and that bothers me. I still have not had a flight instructor explain to me the gear moment change. And as you can see I have a fair amount of complex time.

I guess they think if we do it once, none of us got any fatter, and we always carry the same fuel, it's all good.

hmmmmmmm

chrisdahut1 · April 6th, 2006, 01:38

For a part 91 operation, you are not required to have a weight and balance calculation completed and ready for inspection. If it's just you, one or two other passengers and no bags, it's pretty much a given that you'll be within weight and balance limitations for most light aircraft that I'm familiar with.

However, if you have 4 big passengers in your C-172, full tanks and have the baggage compartment filled to the point where the nose gear is beginning to lift off the ground, an Inspector might get concerned and ask you to prove that you are within limits (ie- calculate the weight and balance). I've heard of this happening, and it sounds more then reasonable. Just make sure you still remember how to do one!

As for the gear moment change...are you referring to the C-172RG? That occurs due to the gear being stowed at a more aft position when retracted. Unlike a Piper, it swings back when retracted. Cessna has you correct this by adding 2424lb/inches to your take off moment to correct for this.

slushie · April 6th, 2006, 03:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisdahut1

(ie- calculate the weight and balance).

Hmm....

I'm still thinking I'm going to start having them done for every flight anyways.

desertdog71 · April 6th, 2006, 04:41

Of course you could have both the DE and Yourself lie about your weights. I calculated a W&B for my checkride today. I lied and said I weighed 260 and the DE said he was 240. I was thinking to myself.....If this guy is 240, hell I must only be a buck eighty. He was clearly larger than me. So I figure we had a good 600 plus in the front seats. Rather than the 500 I calculated. Made stalls easier though..

aloft · April 6th, 2006, 05:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertdog71

I was thinking to myself.....If this guy is 240, hell I must only be a buck eighty. He was clearly larger than me. So I figure we had a good 600 plus in the front seats.

This wasn't in a 152, I take it....

desertdog71 · April 6th, 2006, 06:01

172

ComplexHiAv8r · April 6th, 2006, 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertdog71

I weighed 260

I thought you were 300+ ?? Congrats on the weight loss, maybe time to update your signature to Ex-300+ Ex-Truck Driver. Have you given up smoking too???

VicariousLiving · April 6th, 2006, 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisdahut1

...an Inspector might get concerned and ask you to prove that you are within limits (ie- calculate the weight and balance). I've heard of this happening, and it sounds more then reasonable. Just make sure you still remember how to do one!.

If you are asked to demonstrate aeronautical skills it is no longer a ramp check and there are many extra forms the inspector should share with you prior to making this request (IOW, the exchange has now morped into a 709 ride). However, the ramp inspector may ask for the aircraft w&B document (that's a legitimate ramp inspection request) and then calculate the current w&b him/herself to determine whether or not the aircraft is/was loaded within operating limits. OTOH, if the ramp inspector asks and the pilot is foolish enough to comply...

chrisdahut1 · April 6th, 2006, 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by VicariousLiving

If you are asked to demonstrate aeronautical skills it is no longer a ramp check and there are many extra forms the inspector should share with you prior to making this request (IOW, the exchange has now morped into a 709 ride). However, the ramp inspector may ask for the aircraft w&B document (that's a legitimate ramp inspection request) and then calculate the current w&b him/herself to determine whether or not the aircraft is/was loaded within operating limits. OTOH, if the ramp inspector asks and the pilot is foolish enough to comply...

That sounds "more" right. The experience I explained was second hand knowledge...well, you know how that is. But good point...he wouldn't need to make you do a W&B calculation to nail you...could just do one himself!

chrisdahut1 · April 6th, 2006, 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by slushie

Hmm....

I'm still thinking I'm going to start having them done for every flight anyways.

Excellent choice. It'll keep you sharp on W&B calculations as well as safe.

April 5th, 2006, 19:09	#1
slushie Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Vegas Posts: 2,195	Ramp Check/W&B My understanding is that during a ramp check, the only info you must present is the aircrafts Weight and Balance information. But would you also be asked for your calculations for the specific flight? __________________ Aviation BooksLushAviation.com code="jc05"

April 6th, 2006, 04:41	#7
desertdog71 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: KIDP/KCNU Posts: 3,008	Of course you could have both the DE and Yourself lie about your weights. I calculated a W&B for my checkride today. I lied and said I weighed 260 and the DE said he was 240. I was thinking to myself.....If this guy is 240, hell I must only be a buck eighty. He was clearly larger than me. So I figure we had a good 600 plus in the front seats. Rather than the 500 I calculated. Made stalls easier though.. __________________ www.flywhiteair.com http://www.myspace.com/desertdog71 Following message is for SkyCougar. Took my chances on a big jet plane, Never let them tell you that they're all the same.

April 6th, 2006, 06:01	#9
desertdog71 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: KIDP/KCNU Posts: 3,008	172 __________________ www.flywhiteair.com http://www.myspace.com/desertdog71 Following message is for SkyCougar. Took my chances on a big jet plane, Never let them tell you that they're all the same.

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April 5th, 2006, 20:31	#2
rausda27 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 1,275	I have been ramped twice. Both times they asked to see current pilot certificates and medical. During one ramp check they asked to see ALL the aircraft documents incuding airworthiness, registration and aircraft manuals. To answer your question, I would suspect that the official aircraft W&B with all installed euipment dated and signed by a A&P would suffice, but I suppose the FAA could ask for anything pertaining to: Sec. 91.103 Preflight action. Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become familiar with all available information concerning that flight. This information must include-- (a) For a flight under IFR or a flight not in the vicinity of an airport, weather reports and forecasts, fuel requirements, alternatives available if the planned flight cannot be completed, and any known traffic delays of which the pilot in command has been advised by ATC; (b) For any flight, runway lengths at airports of intended use, and the following takeoff and landing distance information: (1) For civil aircraft for which an approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual containing takeoff and landing distance data is required, the takeoff and landing distance data contained therein; and (2) For civil aircraft other than those specified in paragraph (b)(1) of this section, other reliable information appropriate to the aircraft, relating to aircraft performance under expected values of airport elevation and runway slope, aircraft gross weight, and wind and temperature

April 5th, 2006, 20:43	#3
NightCargo Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: WA Posts: 89	Been ramped four times while working for a 135 cargo operator (I know, lucky me). I each one they wanted to see the standard certificates, medical, etc. On two of them, they wanted to see the weight and balance forms that I had completed for the flight I had just arrived on. Then they checked my flight manuals, Ops Specs, Company Manual, Charts, previous weight and balance calculations (our company required that we carry the aircraft's previous 30 days worth), MEL, etc. Now this was for a 135 operation, but I don't know about a 91 ramp check. My connecting cargo from another aircraft finally arrived so I told them I had to leave, but they were certainly digging for something! Never chance that you aren't going to get ramped. ALWAYS do your weight and balance, check weather and make sure you are current for the flight . . . then you have nothing to worry about!!

April 6th, 2006, 01:38	#5
chrisdahut1 Junior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Louisville, KY & Florida Posts: 269	For a part 91 operation, you are not required to have a weight and balance calculation completed and ready for inspection. If it's just you, one or two other passengers and no bags, it's pretty much a given that you'll be within weight and balance limitations for most light aircraft that I'm familiar with. However, if you have 4 big passengers in your C-172, full tanks and have the baggage compartment filled to the point where the nose gear is beginning to lift off the ground, an Inspector might get concerned and ask you to prove that you are within limits (ie- calculate the weight and balance). I've heard of this happening, and it sounds more then reasonable. Just make sure you still remember how to do one! As for the gear moment change...are you referring to the C-172RG? That occurs due to the gear being stowed at a more aft position when retracted. Unlike a Piper, it swings back when retracted. Cessna has you correct this by adding 2424lb/inches to your take off moment to correct for this.