strike yourself out of a job

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

If you don't like Unions, just don't join one. In fact, leave the industry!

I think you might wanna do that now . . .

Why I will keep my opinions of unions to myself, you dont need to be a member of one to fly or be a professional pilot as you have suggested its a prerequisite to being an airline pilot.

[Doug Taylor]

So what makes you want an airline job? Serious question.

Most people will say days off, travel benefits, vacation, yadda yadda yadda.

So how did those things that attract you to professional aviation come about? Because we're all "swell" guys?

[pilot602]

Originally Posted by notawannabee

while your at it, strike so all the other people who rely on Delta to provide a living for their family cannot do so anymore. Unions are for people who cannot think for themselves or are incapable of making a statement for change. Unions are for people with a sense of entitlement no matter the condition of the industry they chose as their profession. get another job. That's what other people have to do when their company or industry goes under. Unions are for the weak. If you want change then just do it yourself. I'm sick and tired of people who have an inflated sense of entitlement.

...

Unions are for the weak.

You do realize YOU are a member of the most powerful UNION on earth? And have been since birth.

[Champcar]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

So what makes you want an airline job? Serious question.

Most people will say days off, travel benefits, vacation, yadda yadda yadda.

So how did those things that attract you to professional aviation come about? Because we're all "swell" guys?

I just want to wear the uniform .

Seriously I just say that I want to be in the higest profession of the professional world.

[Champcar]

Originally Posted by pilot602

You're an idiot.



You do realize YOU are a member of the most powerful UNION on earth? And have been since birth. F---ing hypocrit.

Here we go again.

[Kristie]

Originally Posted by Champcar

I just want to wear the uniform .

Seriously I just say that I want to be in the higest profession of the professional world.

see, i would think the highest profession in the world would be a CEO for an airline or any other fortune 500 company!! that's the highest/mightyest profession in the professional world...attorney i think would come in 2nd - pilot, for the most part, has dropped to middle class.

[Kristie]

Originally Posted by Champcar

Here we go again.

I agree.. John, it's really not helpful. it could be kept to PM's and off the board.

[Champcar]

Originally Posted by Kristie

see, i would think the highest profession in the world would be a CEO for an airline or any other fortune 500 company!! that's the highest/mightyest profession in the professional world...attorney i think would come in 2nd - pilot, for the most part, has dropped to middle class.

Wow, is it tanking that bad?

[Kristie]

the term "airline pilot" IMO seems to be tanking quite a bit.. granted, freight seems to be doing much better than all the other "professions" as far as the field of - pilot - is concerned.. but that's again just IMHO since i don't necessarily work in the field.. it all goes by what i "hear" (and not from the media).

When i ask other airline pilots (doug's friend/cohorts) if they'd do it all over again, most say no which is how i lead myself to this conclusion.

btw, i say "middle class" because it's only the top 2% (the 20 year, 55+ guys), maybe less than 2% now, that are making the "high class" dollars anymore.

[bob loblaw]

When I was a younger man I used to think unions were for the weak also. I thought unions were there for crybabies and people who screw up. The one smart thing I did during this time was to keep my mouth shut, watch, and learn. I learned that without the union, there was no pairity in salary. I learned that management will try to force you into doing things that just weren't safe.

I've had unions on my side when I needed them to get a dispatcher off my back. The union backed me up when I refused a work assignment and walked off the job. I put the company in a position where they had to suspend me and pay me two weeks back pay for doing so. Had I not been working for a union company, I would have been terminated during that time.

But the most important lesson I learned was that a union exists because the company allows them to exist. The unions make big money off its members and they know that at anytime, a company can close their doors and put everyone on the street. Unions will bend over backwards to keep peice with a company in order not to lose the money it makes from the members. In the end the company still holds all the cards.

[Champcar]

Guess I should have read you sig. Well all I know is that I will try my best to be professional and to represent my company the best I can. I just see it as apart of the job. Im only one person but its better than nothing.

It seems to me that no matter what job people have or how much they like it there is always something to complain about so im not worried about it. Im well aware of whats ahead and all that jazz, so ill have no one to blame but myself.

[pilot602]

Originally Posted by Kristie

I agree.. John, it's really not helpful. it could be kept to PM's and off the board.

EH, sorry.

[Chris_Ford]

Originally Posted by Kristie

the term "airline pilot" IMO seems to be tanking quite a bit..

But who cares? If you got into this profession for people to respect you, one could say that you self-image issues... Get into it because it's what you want to do, not because "other people will think you're cool"...

[aloft]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

So what makes you want an airline job? Serious question.

Most people will say days off, travel benefits, vacation, yadda yadda yadda.

So how did those things that attract you to professional aviation come about? Because we're all "swell" guys?

You seriously mean to tell me it wasn't out of the kindness of management's heart(s)???

[Kristie]

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

But who cares? If you got into this profession for people to respect you, one could say that you self-image issues... Get into it because it's what you want to do, not because "other people will think you're cool"...

I'm not talking image.. i'm talking job...

*wasn't sure if that was to me or just general, just figured i'd stick that in there!

[pavelump]

Originally Posted by Champcar

Seriously I just say that I want to be in the higest profession of the professional world.

Notice that he didn't say highest paid profession of the professional world.

So yes, it is still the highest profession (in terms of altitude) in the world other than an astronaut.

[Captain_Bob]

Astronauts are... outta' this world!

[mpenguin1]

Originally Posted by Kristie

the term "airline pilot" IMO seems to be tanking quite a bit.. granted, freight seems to be doing much better than all the other "professions" as far as the field of - pilot - is concerned.. but that's again just IMHO since i don't necessarily work in the field.. it all goes by what i "hear" (and not from the media).

When i ask other airline pilots (doug's friend/cohorts) if they'd do it all over again, most say no which is how i lead myself to this conclusion.

btw, i say "middle class" because it's only the top 2% (the 20 year, 55+ guys), maybe less than 2% now, that are making the "high class" dollars anymore.

You can still make a good living being a pilot in the US, even in the commercial airline industry, even with all of the givebacks with some of the airlines. Added to that, you have the cargo side of the fence, and of course the Corporate Side.

[Ralgha]

Originally Posted by mpenguin1

You can still make a good living being a pilot in the US, even in the commercial airline industry, even with all of the givebacks with some of the airlines. Added to that, you have the cargo side of the fence, and of course the Corporate Side.

Blasphemy! How dare you say one can live on a pilot's pay! You're undermining the cause!

[awacs94]

Lets be honest... At some point or another these pay consessions are getting out of control. It is only a matter of time before enough is enough and the airlines aren't getting any more out of their employees. Maybe Delta Pilots will stop the "dive to the bottom?" After this managment will actually have to figure out how to run a business, not just ask the employees for paycuts when they did not plan correctly.

[Kristie]

Originally Posted by pavelump

Notice that he didn't say highest paid profession of the professional world.

So yes, it is still the highest profession (in terms of altitude) in the world other than an astronaut.

good point!

[shooter13]

I don't have airline experience but I do have non-union experience ( sorta)

My employer in the steel industry is non-union. While other mills are shutting down around the country we are growing. Not becuase we are taking less pay than them. We aren't. I am overpaid compared to my peers. My company isn't asking me to do crazy unsafe stuff. in fact, i cost the company over $225,000 last week because I refused to work on something that was unsafe. I wasn't fired, or anything. In fact I was later told that I had done the right thing in resisting the pressure to work unsafe even though it negatively affected our profits and our paychecks.

There are non-union companies that are ok places too. Just wanted to throw that out there.

[Mike Lewis]

When I was a manager, I hated unions, as they were a huge pain in the butt.

But, as an employee, I wish I had a union sometimes, as I wouldn't be as worried about my job being outsourced to India.

There are pluses and minuses for both sides, and a lot of it depends on the industry. I think the unions are a major reason there are still manufacturing jobs in this country, but if you ask a manager, they'll tell you that the unions are one of the primary reasons for jobs leaving the country.

For me, it's about dealing truthfully and honestly with unions. As I said, as a manager, the rules regarding the union contract made it difficult for me to get my job done and thus I regarded them as a pain in the butt. BUT, working with the union officials, I found ways to get my job done and go with the union's rules. I understood the union's position, I agreed with them on more points than I disagreed with them, and I respected them. It's all give and take. Lay all your cards out on the table, identify a handful of issues (constraints) you won't part with, and negotiate the rest. You have to be willing to lay out all your cards and deal in the open.

The only ones who really know what's going on are the ones involved in the negotiations with Delta Airlines. Aside from one or two people in this discussion, I think the rest of it is supposition and hearsay from the people - myself included - who have no idea what is really being discussed.

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

So what makes you want an airline job? Serious question.

Not the ALPA. I'd say the technology and science of aerodynamics to be quite honest.

[tonyw]

So, if unions are so bad, riddle me this.

Why is it that the MOST unionized airline out there, Southwest, is profitable, and one of the least, Delta, is flirting with shutting down?

Simple answers are usually wrong.