strike yourself out of a job

[mpenguin1]

Originally Posted by notawannabee

while your at it, strike so all the other people who rely on Delta to provide a living for their family cannot do so anymore. Unions are for people who cannot think for themselves or are incapable of making a statement for change. Unions are for people with a sense of entitlement no matter the condition of the industry they chose as their profession. get another job. That's what other people have to do when their company or industry goes under. Unions are for the weak. If you want change then just do it yourself. I'm sick and tired of people who have an inflated sense of entitlement.

Wow, your post came on a little strong and I can why people jumped at you...

I would not say that Unions are for the weak, in fact, it takes strength to form a Union & keep it going.....

But, yes, if Delta were to strike, it lead to the company becoming insolvent & jobs could be lost.

[mastermags]

I can't even tell who's arguing with who about what anymore.

[jtrain609]

I love lamp

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by SteveC

Yep. "Is" is correct. O/T, but he's a Marine as well.



Funny how sometimes it takes age to appreciate experience, eh???

Ahhh, A Leatherneck. Semper Fi to him!!

Yeah, at least once a week I say to myself, "Man, I guess he was right after all!"

[MQAAord]

Originally Posted by John Herreshoff

I love lamp

Are we back to that again?

[notawannabee]

yea, it came on strong...at least I deleted the word " communism" before I posted. I'll admit, the post could have been worded better, but hey.....I'm entitled to a bad post now and again

[Champcar]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

(BTW, sorry for misreading your earlier post, my bad! I'll send you a JC pen or something! )

But...

That's why I created jetcareers.com. It's an interface between those with experience and those that want to learn.

Every day I probably tell the same story over and over again in email or answer the same question on the forums, and have diligently done so for almost the past decade.

When a user with misconceptions about unions within the airlines opines, I could start with the story about how I thought long and hard before joining the union at Skyway because of misconceptions about the industry. She's really busy, but you can ask Kristie about the long chats we had about joining the union. But then after my first week online, I learned more about organized labor in the airline business than all of the USAToday factoids, political blowhards and fluff-pieces written by management could ever 'teach me'.

So, a lot of us are trying to save you guys time and heartache which many of us learned the hard way.

I do get testy when someone, yet again, challenges me with a bunch of sound bites from cable news or what his cousin Fred's uncle's barber said about how organized labor is holding us back from a moon colony, free beer and crazy circus monkeys throwing out $100 bills like confetti.

On some issues, it'd really behoove a lot of the industry newbies/prospectives to considering who is saying what rather than a self-proclaimed right to challenge say, B767Driver about the flying qualities of a 757/767.

I politely asked where "notawannabe" had the experience or background to make such a broad generalization about organized labor in the airline business, which wasn't answered. But, of course, he has a "right" to an opinion, just as those with experience and knowledge have a professional "obligation" to set him straight.

Yes, the website is a airline pilot soapbox. But there's a few more 'diodes' on the newbie/prospective circuit.

I have heard and been taugh so much about pilot unions, ops, pilots , ALPA to fill my brain twice over. I understand and I agree through what I have been taught. But i can understand peoples negitivity to unions through there actions in other industries.

I love this site and didnt mean or want to piss you off doug or anyone else for that matter, I have to much respect for pilots to do that.

I guess I should have explained what i was trying to say more and not have been so general. But thats hard for me to do because im not that sophisticated, I cant spell, and have terrible (if any) english skills.

[jtrain609]

I'm not sure. I didn't really read this thread and I've had a few beers, so anything could happen here...

[Kristie]

Originally Posted by notawannabee

I personally do not care to be a part of a union. I believe in the individual. What happens when you are not in the majority when it comes to an issue ?

Well, good luck to you then! that's really all I can say

Originally Posted by notawannabee

I do have a problem with closed minded people who ignores the debate / issue and simply walks away.

are you debating? seems that you stated your opinion quite clear in a general statement type of tone. again, good luck to you. your gonna need it.

[notawannabee]

thank you for wishing me well. however, I don't see how you would know that I need good luck.

[Kristie]

Originally Posted by notawannabee

thank you. it's an opinion. that's it. beyond that, I thought it would stimulate a debate tht may be educational. brainwashing....that's when you are not open to others ideas and.......mrivc211...you are a prime example of that

ahh now your debating... actually, i'd like to know a couple of things... without unions, how would you go about making sure you (as an individual) have a equitable, fair scope? pay, per diem, commuting, bid scheduling, overtime, retirement, benefits etc etc...I take it you'd do the negotiating on your own on a yearly basis like most performance reviews and then expect to get a really good raise? (something to note: those without unions typically get a cost of living raise, not too much more now a days)

cuz if your debating, you must have some reasoning for not wanting to be part of a union and with that, i'd like to hear your solution to non-unionized pilot labor and scope clauses....

obviously you must have a solution to the perfect job stability without using a union. I wish i had a union for my job!! i get taken advantage of on a daily basis.

[tonyw]

If a job ain't worth keeping because management shafts you so hard that you bleed in your urine, then I say shut the mofo down.

[JEP]

Originally Posted by notawannabee

thank you for wishing me well. however, I don't see how you would know that I need good luck.

Probably has something to do with this statement:

.....Unions are for people who cannot think for themselves or are incapable of making a statement for change. Unions are for people with a sense of entitlement no matter the condition of the industry they chose as their profession. get another job. That's what other people have to do when their company or industry goes under. Unions are for the weak. If you want change then just do it yourself. I'm sick and tired of people who have an inflated sense of entitlement.

[notawannabee]

cuz if your debating, you must have some reasoning for not wanting to be part of a union and with that, i'd like to hear your solution to non-unionized pilot labor and scope clauses....


If I had the solution...Bill Gates would be my neighbor

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Originally Posted by Kristie

i'd like to hear your solution to non-unionized pilot labor and scope clauses....

If the business treated the employees properly and provided proper pay and per diem then a Union wouldn't be needed. Since that isn't happening, is why the Union IS needed. I am in Engineering, and for our type (Controls/Robotics) their isn't usually a Union for Engineers. If you don't like the company, you move on. I have three times in my career.

Originally Posted by Kristie

obviously you must have a solution to the perfect job stability without using a union. I wish i had a union for my job!! i get taken advantage of on a daily basis.

OOPS, an Engineer looking for a Union. Krisie, I thought you liked your job. Have you started looking?

[notawannabee]

why did the pilots hold a " practice strike " ? Was this a scare tactic. Was it to warn management of how serious the pilots are ?

legitimate questions...not trying to $%^7$ anyone off

[Doug Taylor]

More reading please.

[BCTAv8r]

Just in my first job, I learned how management can be a burden. After working at my previous job for almost a year, even after a perfect review, I only got a $.25 raise. The thing though is that people that started working there close to when I quit, were making about $.10 less. That is outright BS when I've been with the company for such a long time and yet I'm not making that much more. I tried speaking to the owners of the company and they told me if I didn't like it I could move on. So I took my ball and went home. If we had a union, even at a chain of retail stores, things would probably be better off for the workers who were always getting walked over by the #####ing management.

[Kristie]

Originally Posted by ComplexHiAv8r

OOPS, an Engineer looking for a Union. Krisie, I thought you liked your job. Have you started looking?

Nope, but we're starting to lose some long term peeps again...the stability in the job is just not what it used to be anymore.. the only reason i stay is cuz of the flexibility but even that is wanning now and i'm getting more and more flack for wanting to take even a day off...but that's off topic! haha

Notawannabe, I know that if you had the solution to non-unionized pilot labor, you'd be a rich man...however, that's not really what i'm asking (i must have stated myself incorrectly). what i'm asking is if/when you get up to where all the other airline pilots are currently how are you going to verifiably protect yourself without a union? I figured if you had a "plan" of sorts, then that would explain why you destest unions so much (as your tone seems to state).

[Kingairer]

...its my little way of stickin it to the man

[Doug Taylor]

BTW, without a union, I would have gotten fired for running Jetcareers two months ago when some of my users were bring Delta Connection Academy to task.

Anyone remember?

[JEP]

Originally Posted by BCTAv8r

.....After working at my previous job for almost a year, .....That is outright BS when I've been with the company for such a long time .....

A long time????? Brian, You have so much to learn.........

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by Kingairer

...its my little way of stickin it to the man

But you are the man!

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

BTW, without a union, I would have gotten fired for running Jetcareers two months ago when some of my users were bring Delta Connection Academy to task.

Man, didn't you read before? If you'd have gotten fired, the best thing to do is to move on!!

Geez . . .

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by notawannabee

cuz if your debating, you must have some reasoning for not wanting to be part of a union and with that, i'd like to hear your solution to non-unionized pilot labor and scope clauses....


If I had the solution...Bill Gates would be my neighbor

Skywest found the solution, although there has been grumbling around their camp fire about ALPA coming on property.