strike yourself out of a job

[BCTAv8r]

Unions aren't important just for aviation, so you don't need to be a pilot to understand how important they are.

It is funny though the majority of the people saying unions are necessary, are professional pilots, while the ones against union probably never needed an union in the first place.

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by Champcar

So Educate and knok off the personal attacks.

Does anybody else see the humor in this sentence?

Think about all the airline pilot perceptions, the public views this as the PILOTS could bring this airline down and put a lot of people out of work. So step outside of you flying box for just a minute, step back in and educate.

Why step out of the flying box? This forum is for pilots - not the traveling public.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by Champcar

Riddle has nothing to do with it. I cant stand this place which is why im leaving.

What place?

When?

[Champcar]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Does anybody else see the humor in this sentence?



Why step out of the flying box? This forum is for pilots - not the traveling public.

Hey i fixed it. This forum is also for people that want to be pilots and are not there yet.

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by Champcar

Hey i fixed it. This forum is also for people that want to be pilots and are not there yet.

They probably need to ask questions, and not argue with people that know best.

Like my Father used to tell me (usually following a back-hand in the mouth): "Boy, quit while you're behind, shut up and learn something!"

[adreamer]

Wow. Champcar, relax a little. I think you are brain-washed yourself. .

[Champcar]

Originally Posted by SteveC

What place?

When?

At the end of the month, finally....HA nice try. Not telling you were I'm going.

I love how there is only one more view that reply on this thread.

[notawannabee]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

So you've just told a regional captain that he's brainwashed.

I personally know him, know what he's thinking and experienced what he went thru in order for him to form his opinions.

What are your experiences? Besides the 'right' to have an opinion about things you have no first hand knowledge of, what gives your opinion any gravitas?

Where are you, "notawannabe", coming from? What life experiences have you had that helped form your views?

Enquiring minds and all that...

regional captain or astronaut...I would say the same thing.

experiences :
worked in the oil industry making an outstanding living...it went under..I went into another field. I had to adjust. There is no comparison in the money I lost compared to what most of the pilots are losing. I lost ALOT. But hey..life goes on. I didn't picket outside. Believe me, I want delta pilots to make the money they deserve.

[mrivc211]

Originally Posted by Champcar

You have to understand that we're not all in the industry, we're not all airline pilots. So Educate and knock off the personal attacks.

Think about all the airline pilot perceptions, the public views this as the PILOTS could bring this airline down and put a lot of people out of work. So step outside of your flying box for just a minute, step back in, and educate please.

Yo champcar, (telling you straight without being rude) thank you for posting that sentence. Thats exactly the problem. All the public knows is what the airline puts out there for them to read. Is there any form of communication between pilots and the public? Not really is there. Think about that. Now knowing the airline directly controls what gets put out there, what perception are you going to have of pilots?

That we're all money hungry, lazy, womanizing bastards? OK maybe womanizaing.......just kidding.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

They probably need to ask questions, and not argue with people that know best.

I'd use the word "better" instead of "best".

Like my Father used to tell me (usually following a back-hand in the mouth): "Boy, quit while you're behind, shut up and learn something!"

Are you my brother???

[JEP]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

They probably need to ask questions, and not argue with people that know best.

Like my Father used to tell me (usually following a back-hand in the mouth): "Boy, quit while you're behind, shut up and learn something!"

I recall a plaque that used to sit on my grandfathers fireplace. This isn't exactly a pilot related quote, but it should be easily translated:

Us Old People,
Know More About Being Young,
Than You Young People,
Know About Being Old.

[Champcar]

Originally Posted by adreamer

Wow. Champcar, relax a little. I think you are brain-washed yourself. .

No, i just fight too long for no reason sometimes. Personal attacks just drive me nuts for some reason. I just wish people would calm down and bring something good to the table.

Although notawannabe opened up a big can at the wrong time.

[JEP]

Originally Posted by SteveC

......
Are you my brother???

From another Mother

[Doug Taylor]

(BTW, sorry for misreading your earlier post, my bad! I'll send you a JC pen or something! )

But...

That's why I created jetcareers.com. It's an interface between those with experience and those that want to learn.

Every day I probably tell the same story over and over again in email or answer the same question on the forums, and have diligently done so for almost the past decade.

When a user with misconceptions about unions within the airlines opines, I could start with the story about how I thought long and hard before joining the union at Skyway because of misconceptions about the industry. She's really busy, but you can ask Kristie about the long chats we had about joining the union. But then after my first week online, I learned more about organized labor in the airline business than all of the USAToday factoids, political blowhards and fluff-pieces written by management could ever 'teach me'.

So, a lot of us are trying to save you guys time and heartache which many of us learned the hard way.

I do get testy when someone, yet again, challenges me with a bunch of sound bites from cable news or what his cousin Fred's uncle's barber said about how organized labor is holding us back from a moon colony, free beer and crazy circus monkeys throwing out $100 bills like confetti.

On some issues, it'd really behoove a lot of the industry newbies/prospectives to considering who is saying what rather than a self-proclaimed right to challenge say, B767Driver about the flying qualities of a 757/767.

I politely asked where "notawannabe" had the experience or background to make such a broad generalization about organized labor in the airline business, which wasn't answered. But, of course, he has a "right" to an opinion, just as those with experience and knowledge have a professional "obligation" to set him straight.

Yes, the website is a airline pilot soapbox. But there's a few more 'diodes' on the newbie/prospective circuit.

[Screaming_Emu]

Originally Posted by Champcar

Riddle has nothing to do with it. I cant stand this place which is why im leaving.

which is why you have a signature that goes "hey everybody, I go to Riddle!"

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

<snip>
...or what his cousin Fred's uncle's barber said about how organized labor is holding us back from a moon colony, free beer and crazy circus monkeys throwing out $100 bills like confetti.

<snip>

[B767Driver]

Originally Posted by notawannabee

while your at it, strike so all the other people who rely on Delta to provide a living for their family cannot do so anymore. Unions are for people who cannot think for themselves or are incapable of making a statement for change. Unions are for people with a sense of entitlement no matter the condition of the industry they chose as their profession. get another job. That's what other people have to do when their company or industry goes under. Unions are for the weak. If you want change then just do it yourself. I'm sick and tired of people who have an inflated sense of entitlement.

Okay...I'll bite. But, first I must say I'm dissappointed with your delivery...a successful, mature, professional should deliver a good measure of self-control...a trait characteristic of strong mental, moral and emotional conditioning. When your emotions break down...which can be tempting in times like these...your jugdment, common sense and decision making ability will suffer. All things a pro pilot should monitor when assessing their fitness to make sound decisions.

Now...back to your post. The pilots love their job and their airline and are willing to do what it takes to make the corp. successful. I think if you study the financials behind the proposals...you'll find that to be the truth.

Contract negotiations are tough, complicated, comprehensive and must blend two separate objectives into a workable solution. Successful negotiations should produce such a solution...and frequently do. It's how collective bargaining agreements work. The latest NFL CBA is a good recent example of how the process works.

If you don't stand up for yourself, however, you may not be successful in recovering some of your objectives.

To make a post like you did...I think demonstrates a lack of understanding of the CBA process.

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by notawannabee

experiences :
worked in the oil industry making an outstanding living...it went under..I went into another field. I had to adjust. There is no comparison in the money I lost compared to what most of the pilots are losing. I lost ALOT. But hey..life goes on. I didn't picket outside. Believe me, I want delta pilots to make the money they deserve.

Doesn't mean jack here, let me save you the time.

Seriously, pull up a chair, grab a soda and do a lot more listening.

(and both B767Driver and I went thru a strike together at another carrier. Many of the benefits that make you want to plunk down $80,000 to get that spiffy new job were hardfought by others... in unions...)

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by Champcar

At the end of the month, finally....HA nice try. Not telling you were I'm going.

Naw, I wanted to know where you were leaving, not where you were going.




BTW, I don't think you have to worry about me trying to steal your job.

[mtsu_av8er]

Are you my brother???

Sounds like your Father was/is a wise man, too!

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Doesn't mean jack here, let me save you the time.

Seriously, pull up a chair, grab a soda and do a lot more listening.

You mean we can't have oilindustrycareers.com??

[Getburned]

The current position of this airline was not a result of what the pilots or unions have done, Pilots have done nothing but work hard day in and day out with an outstanding safety record, but was as a result of poor management who does nothing but seek outrageous paycuts from the employees that truely make the company run. Management brought this upon themselves and its time that they be held accountable.

[notawannabee]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

(BTW, sorry for misreading your earlier post, my bad! I'll send you a JC pen or something! )

But...

That's why I created jetcareers.com. It's an interface between those with experience and those that want to learn.

Every day I probably tell the same story over and over again in email or answer the same question on the forums, and have diligently done so for almost the past decade.

When a user with misconceptions about unions within the airlines opines, I could start with the story about how I thought long and hard before joining the union at Skyway because of misconceptions about the industry. She's really busy, but you can ask Kristie about the long chats we had about joining the union. But then after my first week online, I learned more about organized labor in the airline business than all of the USAToday factoids, political blowhards and fluff-pieces written by management could ever 'teach me'.

So, a lot of us are trying to save you guys time and heartache which many of us learned the hard way.

I do get testy when someone, yet again, challenges me with a bunch of sound bites from cable news or what his cousin Fred's uncle's barber said about how organized labor is holding us back from a moon colony, free beer and crazy circus monkeys throwing out $100 bills like confetti.

On some issues, it'd really behoove a lot of the industry newbies/prospectives to considering who is saying what rather than a self-proclaimed right to challenge say, B767Driver about the flying qualities of a 757/767.

I politely asked where "notawannabe" had the experience or background to make such a broad generalization about organized labor in the airline business, which wasn't answered. But, of course, he has a "right" to an opinion, just as those with experience and knowledge have a professional "obligation" to set him straight.

Yes, the website is a airline pilot soapbox. But there's a few more 'diodes' on the newbie/prospective circuit.

Thanks. It is an interface, and that's why I like to use it. I am familiar with union history, but not with respect to the airline industry. That's why I said their may be a place for it. ( and I'm not saying that to win " brownie points" with anyone ) Today is a hot day for the topic.....sounded like I gave a couple of people the chance to vent...I'm here to learn and contribute.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Sounds like your Father was/is a wise man, too!

Yep. "Is" is correct. O/T, but he's a Marine as well.



Funny how sometimes it takes age to appreciate experience, eh???

[Doug Taylor]

That was actually a post to Champcar.

But while we're on the topic, our only perception of you is through your words and, for example, if you walk into a 747-400 initial ground school and scream, "This thing sucks, it flies like crap!", expect to be challenged as to what your experience is.

If you say, "Well, I drove trucks and diesels are almost as big so I should know".. Erm, no.

Like I said, pull up a chair, grab a soda (or beer if you're over 21) and learn.

[notawannabee]

got my beer....ahhh...much better