Delta Pilots Vote to Authorize Strike by ~95% - Page 9

meritflyer · April 10th, 2006, 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Herreshoff

Ya'll do realize that people managed to feed their families LONG before corporations took over this country right?

OMG the corporations are coming!!!! Run!!!! Coporations provide jobs, health benefits, retirements, and a way for people to live. They arent all as bad as people make them out to be.

jtrain609 · April 10th, 2006, 21:50

See that's exactly your problem, you think you need these corporations to get by. You believe they provide you jobs and a way of life. I on the other hand believe that they suck people dry and destroy people's lives with false promises.

Remember, I'm from the land of GM: where when in a year that they recorded record profits, they closed down all their Flint, MI plants to move to Mexico and screw the people there. I've seen corporations do nothing but destroy peoples lives.

ComplexHiAv8r · April 10th, 2006, 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Herreshoff

Remember, I'm from the land of GM: where when in a year that they recorded record profits, they closed down all their Flint, MI plants to move to Mexico and screw the people there. I've seen corporations do nothing but destroy peoples lives.

yep, GM just announce more cutbacks, plant loosing shifts (if not the entire plant), but they are opening a new plant in Mexico!!!

Sad, very sad!

tonyw · April 10th, 2006, 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by meritflyer

Coporations provide jobs, health benefits, retirements, and a way for people to live.

Oh yeah?

They used to provide jobs. Now? It's all about goosing the stock price, and guess how they do that. Wall Street goes ape when you announce layoffs.

Health benefits? Once upon a time, yes. Now? Let's see, we'll jack your copay up to $25 a pop, and oh, yeah, until you pay $1000, we won't cover any of your expenses.

Retirements? Ask the folks at Delta or United about those pensions.

A way for people to live? Maybe. If they have their way, they'll have us all working for Wal-Mart wages, barely scraping by, for another tenth of a percent in margins.

Mr_Creepy · April 10th, 2006, 23:38

Ok jump on him for something else. Personally, I don't like the way he accuses Doug of not caring about the rest of the world.

Corporations are just as necessary as unions, ok? They are neither good nor evil. They can be either, neither or both at the same time, but it always comes down to the people in charge.

I agree with Doug - sick of this!

The big question is though, what happened? Is there a strike? no? PEB? etc? because 12:00 pm was NOON TODAY!

I saw nothing on any news anywhere.

Maximillian_Jenius · April 11th, 2006, 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Creepy

Ok jump on him for something else. Personally, I don't like the way he accuses Doug of not caring about the rest of the world.

Corporations are just as necessary as unions, ok? They are neither good nor evil. They can be either, neither or both at the same time, but it always comes down to the people in charge.

I agree with Doug - sick of this!

The big question is though, what happened? Is there a strike? no? PEB? etc? because 12:00 pm was NOON TODAY!

I saw nothing on any news anywhere.

I believe the deadline is either April 15th or 17th.

meritflyer · April 11th, 2006, 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonyw

Oh yeah?

They used to provide jobs. Now? It's all about goosing the stock price, and guess how they do that. Wall Street goes ape when you announce layoffs.

Health benefits? Once upon a time, yes. Now? Let's see, we'll jack your copay up to $25 a pop, and oh, yeah, until you pay $1000, we won't cover any of your expenses.

Retirements? Ask the folks at Delta or United about those pensions.

A way for people to live? Maybe. If they have their way, they'll have us all working for Wal-Mart wages, barely scraping by, for another tenth of a percent in margins.

You cite two examples of the hundreds of thousands of companies in America. I guess they all suck. Corporations may dish out their share of careless dealings to employees however, they provide what I mentioned above. Maybe we should go back to farming and mud huts.

meritflyer · April 11th, 2006, 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Creepy

Ok jump on him for something else. Personally, I don't like the way he accuses Doug of not caring about the rest of the world.

I assume you were talking about my dialogue with Doug. I was merely pointing out that the attitude people in general have towards their jobs cant be taken with such ease. Not for me atleast. A job means something to me.

tonyw · April 11th, 2006, 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by meritflyer

You cite two examples of the hundreds of thousands of companies in America. I guess they all suck. Corporations may dish out their share of careless dealings to employees however, they provide what I mentioned above. Maybe we should go back to farming and mud huts.

Yeah, they pretty much all do. There are a few exceptions, but most corporations blow. Big time.

And if they could find a way to profit from us going back to farming and mud huts, they'd do it. In a heartbeat.

It's all about goosing the stock price. Know why, for example, so many companies moved their manufacturing overseas? It wasn't because they were losing money. It was because they could save a few pennies on labor.

The only way to keep corporations in check and to force them to provide jobs, health care, and such is to organize labor so that if corporations push too hard, labor can shut the mofo down.

If either side in the labor management divide gets too much power, then things go bad. Right now, too much power resides in the hands of management.

Doug Taylor · April 11th, 2006, 01:00

Merit, with all due respect, I'd like you to consider other topics of conversation other than airline labor or pay-for-(training/job) operations.

Are you flying? Anything cool going on?

meritflyer · April 11th, 2006, 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonyw

And if they could find a way to profit from us going back to farming and mud huts, they'd do it. In a heartbeat.

So would any other entrepreneur in America, including you.

meritflyer · April 11th, 2006, 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Merit, with all due respect, I'd like you to consider other topics of conversation other than airline labor or pay-for-(training/job) operations.

Are you flying? Anything cool going on?

You got it man. No pun intended.

Kristie · April 11th, 2006, 04:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComplexHiAv8r

yep, GM just announce more cutbacks, plant loosing shifts (if not the entire plant), but they are opening a new plant in Mexico!!!

Sad, very sad!

isn't that just ridiculous! maybe we need to start invading mexico and taking the jobs down there?

Kristie · April 11th, 2006, 04:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

I believe the deadline is either April 15th or 17th.

17th.....

Mr_Creepy · April 11th, 2006, 08:29

Thanks! I missed the news the first day, and the date has not been mentioned when I'm walking by a TV.

tonyw · April 11th, 2006, 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by meritflyer

So would any other entrepreneur in America, including you.

Wrong.

You see, I believe that there is a benefit, which may not show up in the bottom line, but which definitely shows up, in treating your employees well and keeping them happy. You get lower turnover, you get lower recruitment costs, and you get more production out of happy employees.

Don't believe me? Contrast say, Southwest and a legacy carrier.

And if I'm wrong, then please explain to me why Fortune's top companies to work for consistently deliver higher stock peformance than does the S&P 500?

Treating your employees well is good for the bottom line.

meritflyer · April 11th, 2006, 14:50

Gosh! Wrong again! Everyone is always wrong on here except you.

Chris_Ford · April 11th, 2006, 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by meritflyer

Gosh! Wrong again! Everyone is always wrong on here except you.

No, he thought he was wrong once, but he was mistaken

tonyw · April 11th, 2006, 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by meritflyer

Gosh! Wrong again! Everyone is always wrong on here except you.

When I've got the facts to back up what I say, and you've got nothing, yup, I feel fine telling you that you are wrong.

Don't like it?

I've got a simple solution.

Don't say things that are contradicted by facts.

There's your helpful hint for the day. Who says I'm always negative?

Chris_Ford · April 11th, 2006, 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonyw

When I've got the facts to back up what I say, and you've got nothing, yup, I feel fine telling you that you are wrong.

Not always, a lot of these arguments aren't about facts, they're often about intangibles and hypotheticals. Because of this, one may present a "fact" that is neither factual nor relevant into an argument. Not accusing you of doing this, but pointing out the potential downfalls of trying to intermesh "fact" and "opinion".

For example, I am afraid of space aliens. There are no facts for me to back up why I am afraid of them, I simply am. It's not always black and white, Tony.

TonyC · April 11th, 2006, 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

..., one may present a "fact" that is neither factual ...

That's nonsense.

.

Chris_Ford · April 11th, 2006, 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyC

That's nonsense.

Where are your facts to prove that wrong?

TonyC · April 11th, 2006, 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

Where are your facts to prove that wrong?

http://www.m-w.com

.

Chris_Ford · April 11th, 2006, 15:13

Except that you've just proven my entire point. People subjectively apply the term fact to something that is not a fact at all. Thus the quotes around "fact" in my original post

TonyC · April 11th, 2006, 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

Except that you've just proven my entire point. People subjectively apply the term fact to something that is not a fact at all. Thus the quotes around "fact" in my original post

Like I said - - nonsense.

If it's not factual, it's not a fact.

People may present arguments or positions based on opinion or emotion, but unless they are real or actual, they are not facts, with or without quotation marks.

.

April 10th, 2006, 21:50	#202
jtrain609 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 12,869	See that's exactly your problem, you think you need these corporations to get by. You believe they provide you jobs and a way of life. I on the other hand believe that they suck people dry and destroy people's lives with false promises. Remember, I'm from the land of GM: where when in a year that they recorded record profits, they closed down all their Flint, MI plants to move to Mexico and screw the people there. I've seen corporations do nothing but destroy peoples lives. __________________ "Jetlink 2940, on another radio, contact clearance for new airways..."

April 10th, 2006, 23:38	#205
Mr_Creepy Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone Posts: 5,810	Ok jump on him for something else. Personally, I don't like the way he accuses Doug of not caring about the rest of the world. Corporations are just as necessary as unions, ok? They are neither good nor evil. They can be either, neither or both at the same time, but it always comes down to the people in charge. I agree with Doug - sick of this! The big question is though, what happened? Is there a strike? no? PEB? etc? because 12:00 pm was NOON TODAY! I saw nothing on any news anywhere. __________________ "You know you're winning an argument with a liberal when they start calling you names" johntenney.com The PEO Message Myspace My Business - PEO Pros

April 11th, 2006, 01:00	#210
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,926 Blog Entries: 1	Merit, with all due respect, I'd like you to consider other topics of conversation other than airline labor or pay-for-(training/job) operations. Are you flying? Anything cool going on? __________________ Doug Taylor http://76school.flyblog.com (old!) http://30west.flyblog.com (updated 11/28)

April 11th, 2006, 08:29	#215
Mr_Creepy Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone Posts: 5,810	Thanks! I missed the news the first day, and the date has not been mentioned when I'm walking by a TV. __________________ "You know you're winning an argument with a liberal when they start calling you names" johntenney.com The PEO Message Myspace My Business - PEO Pros

April 11th, 2006, 14:50	#217
meritflyer Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Winchestertonfieldville Posts: 6,802	Gosh! Wrong again! Everyone is always wrong on here except you. __________________ The simplest answer tends to be correct.

April 11th, 2006, 15:13	#224
Chris_Ford Banned Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 7,329	Except that you've just proven my entire point. People subjectively apply the term fact to something that is not a fact at all. Thus the quotes around "fact" in my original post

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