Delta Pilots Vote to Authorize Strike by ~95%

[mpenguin1]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Based upon???

Shame on me? WTF did I do beyond give up 32.5%-plus of my livelihood to ensure some dorks that are the ones that got us into trouble, walked away with a few million for their gladiator-like efforts?

Am I, personally, the one that threw fare sale after fare sale during ever increasing fuel costs?

Am I, personally, the one that sold off the fuel hedges to fund SERPS?

Am I, personally, the one that pulled off jets with CASM's less than $.10 to put on $0.25-plus CASM jets that passengers had a strong preference against?

HTF do you qualify "shame on both"? Good grief.

Broham, you know I luv ya like my brotha from anotha motha, but that's straight up ridiculous.

Oh lord, I did not say that the employees of Delta were directly responsible for the events that drove Delta to bankruptcy....

As far as my no angel comment, you know how it goes Doug, pay cuts today, pay raises tomorrow, hell, Delta just negotiated industry leading union contracts back in 2001, which back then, the company said that it would bleed them..

ATLANTA--Pilots at Delta Airlines reached a tentative agreement with management as Socialist Worker went to press. The deal averted a strike that was set for April 29. However, the 9,800 pilots could still walk if the deal is rejected in balloting that is expected to take about a month.

Capt. Charles Giambusso, chair of the Air Line Pilots Association’s (ALPA) Delta Master Executive Council, called the deal "an industry-leading agreement." The five-year deal provides for raises ranging from 23.8 percent to 34 percent, while pilots at the low-fare Delta Express subsidiary would get raises of 62.8 percent in exchange for flying more hours.

Now if people want, I can jump on the bandwagon, that management is bad, pilots/employees are good, so what, let's say for a minute that 100% of the reason can be placed in the lap of management, so what, it is not as if they are going to right a $20 billion dollar check.

[BCTAv8r]

Scabs must be in the edge of their chairs...

[Doug Taylor]

Yes.

Ready...

Set...

Wait...formulate some excuse for scabbing...

GO!

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by mpenguin1

Oh lord, I did not say that the employees of Delta were directly responsible for the events that drove Delta to bankruptcy....

Because ALPA is each individual line pilot.

When you say, "blame belongs on both ends", well, one of those ends you said was ALPA, and for the lack of a better way of saying it, I am ALPA.

[mpenguin1]

Originally Posted by BCTAv8r

Scabs must be in the edge of their chairs...

If there was a strike at Delta, which I am crossing my fingers that there will not be a strike, but, if any pilot were to scab, it would be the end of their flying careers....

You will see a pilot working at Walmart or Home Depot before crossing a picketline, just my opinion.....

[BCTAv8r]

Originally Posted by mpenguin1

If there was a strike at Delta, which I am crossing my fingers that there will not be a strike, but, if any pilot were to scab, it would be the end of their flying careers....

You will see a pilot working at Walmart or Home Depot before crossing a picketline, just my opinion.....

I don't know. If someone is willing to pay for a job to get ahead, I don't see why they wouldn't do the same to work for an airline such as Delta. Going from paying to low pay sure is a big step for them. Just take this comment lightly though. Last thing we need to add to this thread is PFT.

[RynoB]

I've never had experience with unions.

I have always wondered who the union leaders are for pilots?

Are they pilots, lawyers, or what?

If pilots, are they senior pilots, or a cross-section of seniority?

Finally, if the union goes against the majority vote can the union members recall the union leaders to establish new leadership?

Thanks

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by RynoB

Are they pilots, lawyers, or what?

Regular line pilots like me.

If pilots, are they senior pilots, or a cross-section of seniority?

Well, long story short, there are elected FO reps and Captain reps. Whoever has the cajones enough to volunteer and run for office pretty much.

Finally, if the union goes against the majority vote can the union members recall the union leaders to establish new leadership?

Yes. Absolutely.

[RynoB]

Thanks Doug.

[Doug Taylor]

In fact, and I'll use no names, but the LAS FO rep at America West is a regular lurker and the guy who was a favorite to run for FO rep at ExpressJet/EWR (I think) is a active participant as well.

I worked on the MEC communications committee at Skyway and I'd produce "Skylines" newsletter and did a few VARS updates while the chairman was on paternity leave.

[Brazilian_Pilot]

I have a question. would this strike, if it where to happen kill the airline??

Would it force delta to pretty much close its doors?

[n77j]

I am sitting here and thinking to myself- really- does management think the $300 million or so money will make that much of a difference to bring Delta out of trouble. Since 2001, Delta has been losing money in the billions for the fiscal year(fact from Wall Street). Now management is so stuborn that they are focused in squeezing pilots pay rather than restructuring many other aspects that they need to focus on. Delta is going to need a lot of work than just pilot paycuts- unlike United and Northwest who have dominant presence internationally especially in Asia (where there is good money), Delta does not-yet. Cargo is money a lot of money-perhaps start a small subsidiary by modifying some of the 763's to cargo. Too many TYPES of aircraft-need to simplify them-again IMMEDIATELY! These are some of my suggestions to the DL management. Feel free to critisize me-no hard feelings-

[Doug Taylor]

Well, it's really all about cash flow and revenue. Revenue and cash flow have increased so we're really talking about two weeks of revenue over what the union and the airline are fighting about.

You really have to look beyond the headlines and read the financials to see what's really going on.

Basically, what you're watching is nothing more than bankrupcy profiteering.

Notice how Comair made fat loads of loot and then the flight attendants wouldn't agree to concessions so virtually overnight, they're losing money?

The pilots don't decide if the company stays in business, the pilots don't decide if the company goes OUT of business either.

I know we have the 'world revolves around our decisions!' attitude, but in the big corporate scheme of things, we have a lot less control and impact over what a company decides.

[Kristie]

Originally Posted by Brazilian_Pilot

I have a question. would this strike, if it where to happen kill the airline??

Would it force delta to pretty much close its doors?

I honestly don't think it'd close the doors quickly.. granted if it didn't get resolved over time, sure the amount of $$ would add up...

they're talking about $330 million compared to the billions they take in as revenue, mgmt really wouldn't be wise to take this to strike zone.

but honestly, word on the street is that they still will not budge on any one clause and that just seems stupid, IMO. At this point, I fully believe they're trying to break the pilots and the union so that there is no union, thereby setting a presidence among all airlines and lowering the bar even more for their own golden parachutes. but that's just how i see it.

the financial information on the matter just doesn't make sense.

[ETAV8R]

Originally Posted by mpenguin1

... so what, it is not as if they are going to right a $20 billion dollar check.

Only to right a wrong.
Or to write a rong.
Stand fast Doug.
Pay raises for the regional guys? Yeah they need it but not at the cost of the mainline guys.

[ERfly]

Its sad to sit here and watch this happen toDelta. I grew up in the south. Delta is THE airline down here. It's always been a dream of mine to work for them. It just flat out pisses me off the Leo and the idiots that followed him did this to Delta. Doug my thoughts and hopes are with you and your fellow brothers and sisters. Stand strong and get what you deserve!!

[n77j]

Originally Posted by Brazilian_Pilot

I have a question. would this strike, if it where to happen kill the airline??

Would it force delta to pretty much close its doors?

I don't think it will get to that stage-governments and some high political figures will step in both from Georgia and DC. You are talking not only some 60,000 employees of DL but more or less over 100,000 combined with contractors and subsidiaries. DL is such a powerful and big company to simply evaporate-IMO

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by Brazilian_Pilot

I have a question. would this strike, if it where to happen kill the airline??

Would it force delta to pretty much close its doors?

Here's a little "TMI", but entertaining reading from a 'financial dude':

Delta - Theater of the Absurd



"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters."

-- Alan Simpson

"Our distrust is very expensive."

-- Ralph Waldo Emerson


"Every time history repeats itself, the price goes up."

-- Unknown



There are two very distinct and different shows playing on stage right now at Delta Air Lines.

One is external - on the road -- in Washington, DC.

The other is internal - at home -- in Atlanta.

One is being played before a 3-man arbitration board.

The other is playing out before 50,000 loyal, active employees and another 40,000 retirees - all watching and waiting - to see if Delta Air Lines goes out of business - as the company continues to warn unless they get the maximum additional demands and concessions from the pilots.

The playwrights themselves -- Delta management -- wonder why there is little trust among the audience - an audience of faithful workers -- from every department -- generally regarded as smarter viewers than the average bear - and not easily fooled.

One must then ask, how can two very different simultaneous stage shows be a truthful and fair representation -- when they are vastly different in both script and content.

Observe and draw your own conclusions:

Two weeks ago (2/28) -- COO Jim Whitehurst told a packed house of 700+ employees at the GICC that in 2005, if Delta had just been an average legacy carrier -- we would have brought in another $2.5 billion in additional revenue.

In other words, if Delta had the same relative RASM numbers (revenue per available seat mile) as our competitors -- AMR, United, Northwest, USAir and Continental -- we would have been not only the most profitable - but the only profitable legacy carrier among the majors in 2005.

Jim told the standing room only crowd -- of mostly non-contract employees -- that we had a very good chance the airline would be "in the black" operationally in the next 12-18 months. I was in the audience. I did not mistake what Jim said or what I heard spoken on stage.

One then asks: How much is just being average worth to Delta? Again, Jim says it would yield an additional $2.5 billion in revenue if we just catch up - and be on par with the other guys - who pay for the same fuel and have competitors of their own.

Next observation:

On Delta's website -- is a copy of the most current interview from the December NewsDigest with Glen Hauenstein, Delta's new Executive VP of Network and Revenue Management - whom we hired away from Continental in 2005, along with Bob Cortelyou - also from Continental.

Both gentlemen came to Delta because they saw an extensive opportunity to shine -- not suffer defeat. In fact, listening to and watching Glen Hauenstein, there is a certain "glee" in his optimism about the potential he feels certain we can and should achieve and thus, surpass the competition.

Jim, Glen, and Bob each project a "fight's on" attitude. They appear motivated to not rest until we succeed. Their mantra? We will not tolerate or accept any more excuses about our past failure to produce better results. We have the routes and the assets. We will do better.

From the December 5th interview with Glen, he clearly states that during the first nine months of 2005, Delta only achieved 85% of the RASM realized by the other network/legacy carriers. That additional 15% "shortfall" is worth -- in his estimate -- the same $2.5 billion in additional revenue to Delta - that Jim spoke of two weeks ago on stage at the GICC in Atlanta.

Jim and Glen - both agree on the numbers and the potential already being realized with the latest changes to our scheduling and increased route efficiencies - day to day.

Closing the gap on that 15% shortfall and additional $2.5 billion is what Glen and Bob Cortelyou were hired to do. Thus far, they appear to be making positive strides toward achieving parity with our competitors and "getting it done".

In January, Delta's year over year revenue jumped by 14% from the preceding year. By chance? By luck? No. By being smarter.

As Jim pointed out two weeks ago at the GICC, Delta had built the best route structure in the industry..for the last century. A large fleet of RJs were a good feeder mechanism to the hubs - until everyone else started getting them too.

The parallel focus on increasing our International flying from 20% to 35% of the total will also significantly help close the gap with respect to increased RASM. The moves at JFK, designed to feed our newly proclaimed International "hub" with more passengers is the kind of productivity and increased efficiency that wasn't being done prior to the arrival of these newly hired, motivated thinkers - who've joined the team.

These guys are on a mission to succeed - the fresh blood we needed to feel hungry again. It's the same reason a JetBlue or Song becomes successful -- and popular.

There is a sense of purpose in every action and decision made - a driving desire to excel, to be the best -- and prove it -- with actions - each day. At the same time, those kinds of employees are building pro-active trust and respect with action - not words.

So this is one very important scene -- Act I -- being played out in Atlanta - live and on stage every day. Sounds promising and not at all similar to the doom and gloom being heard in the nation's capital this past week.

The other act -- Act II -- also live and on stage - is being played out in Washington, DC the next few weeks.

How very different is the script being heard by the audience watching and listening to Act II at the Marriott hotel in DC. Tickets are still vaialble.

In fact, is it possible we are watching the same play about the same company?

While COO Whitehurst and VP of Revenue Hauenstein are touting increasing our numbers by a couple billion - if we can just manage to achieve "average" status among our peers -- the company negotiators/lawyers are telling the world, the press, and three arbitrators that Delta is doomed if the company doesn't secure more deep sacrifices -- another 1/3 of a billion dollars -- from the pilots -- those lowly harbingers of destruction and greed.

ALPA and the company have been haggling over a couple hundred million for months - the equivalent of less than 2% of the company's operating revenue in a single year.

At this point, if the reported numbers are anywhere close - ALPA says they are offering an additional $140 million -- today -- on top of the $1 billion already contributed by the pilots in the past 12-15 months.

The company says they still need an additional $305 million. Or all bets are off.

Something was rotten in Denmark - and now in DC and Dixie.

Between the intelligent efforts being put forth to significantly increase revenue being touted in Atlanta and the dire straits of a sinking ship being portrayed by company attorneys at the Marriot Hotel in DC - there is a major disconnect between Act I and Act II.

And folks wonder why trust has been an issue the past couple years???

The two sides are now only supposedly $165 million apart on securing a deal.

How about the large amount of money the company saved six months ago, as well as now, by not making the required payments into the pilot's Defined Benefit retirement fund? Have we seen any credit given for that sacrificial lamb?

How about the additional savings realized by abruptly stopping all "Unqualified" dollars being paid to pilot retirees who earned every dollar of that money. What value has been contributed to the company pot by denying those promises to these men and women?

Or don't those dollars count towards the effort because they were "Unqualified"?

Every contract negotiated during a Delta pilot's career included the value of those "Unqualified" dollars, lest anyone forget that fact.

There's something else that deserves clarification and more attention with respect to those retirement dollars referred to as "Unqualified".

"Unqualified" is a bad term. Makes it sound like they weren't earned or were given out as extra compensation -- like a goodwill bonus or maybe a SERP -- or not really part of the benefits due to those retirees. Nothing could be further from the truth. The term "Unqualified" projects the wrong connotation of that well-earned value promised to those folks in retirement. Somebody along the way -- with the integrity and power to do so -- needs to right that wrong when we make money again.

But like every other crisis situation at Delta, those retired pilots have swallowed that bitter pill in stride - and continue to hope for the best. Many I talk with are not only saddened but have moved into the realm of both disgust and disbelief - a dark place they said they never thought they could ever go in their hearts and minds with regard to Delta.

At some point - which may be the crux of ALPA's current stance - there is a breaking point where you have to stop subsidizing bad decisions and a lack of good faith.

One might also ask - how much is being frittered away on legal fees and other resources? How much revenue has already been lost with book-aways over the last 3 months?

Arbitrator Richard Bloch's assessment with Monday's opening remarks was that both sides have failed at the collective bargaining process. Appropriate assessment - except I believe it to be one side not negotiating -- not both -- knowing the players in the play.

How much time and effort is being spent on squeezing every last nickel from our Delta pilot group vs. focusing on the real enemy - JetBlue, AirTran, AMR, and United?

Deep down, many want to see us avoid a strike, focus on crushing the competition, and be successful again. Who doesn't? (Other then a large contingent of our F/O's -- who feel cheated and lied to - repeatedly. Last time we told them we were going to grow the airline we ordered a large fleet of RJs. Who can blame them? They know what they see.)

As I've mentioviablened many times, the same Marriottstrong personalities we specifically hired to be our future Captains and leaders are the same folks who are now willing to draw a line in the sand. It should be no surprise why.

Even a casual observer would have to ask how two very different scenes at the same company are being played on these two stages.

During testimony in DC before the arbitration panel this week, Ed Bastian, Delta's CFO, made it sound as though Delta is so fragile -- on literal egg shells -- that if we don't get the additional sacrifices from the pilots - the equivalent of about 2% of our total operating revenue in a single year - that it's over. The fat lady's warming up.

Shutter the doors. Send the airplanes to the bone yard. We're barely keeping her afloat. People are up at night wondering how we're possibly getting through the next day without the additional dollars from the pilots.

Something's not adding up here with respect to the true, honest, forthright health of the patient.

If we don't survive it won't be because the company didn't squeeze that last $305 million from the pilots - 2% of the company's total $15 billion size.

Delta Air Lines is a $15 billion company. It takes roughly $40 million a day to run Delta. $40 million x 365 days = $14.6 billion.

The difference between the company demands ($305 million) and what ALPA is offering ($140 million) is about four days' revenue.

There is still $2 billion in DIP financing available and revenue coming in daily. Are GE, Citibank, JP Morgan, Merrill, and Boeing really going to sit idle and let Delta close the doors -- for good?

A spade is a spade. And someone in a management/leadership position needs to call it.

It's the only way to start re-building the trust - at every level.

If we don't survive the current stand-off and continuing uncertainty, it will be because ultimately we lost all trust in the leadership, and consequently -- the spirit and the will to compete in a tough business - where your employees make the difference.

It will be because our leaders forgot the intrinsic value of the most valuable resource at any company -- its people.

Too many family livelihoods and futures are at stake.

This is not how Delta Air Lines grew up resolving differences -- and prospered.

Richard Bloch is right. We have failed at the collective bargaining process - at the increasing expense of the morale and faith of our current employees and retirees.

As has always been the case throughout Delta's history - the deal gets done when the company wants it to get done.

Shame on those who have the experience, the knowledge, the resources, and most of all -- the power -- to make the difference.


"God sells us all things at the price of labor."

--Leonardo da Vinci


"There is no truth. There is only perception."

-- Gustave Flaubert

[Alchemy]

Originally Posted by eta71

Only to right a wrong.
Or to write a rong.
Stand fast Doug.
Pay raises for the regional guys? Yeah they need it but not at the cost of the mainline guys.

The lower the pay at the regionals, the more viable it becomes to replace that 737 or MD80 with an RJ. At the regional level, just about the only thing we pilots can do to keep some semblance of domestic narrowbody flying at the majors is to demand pay and workrules that make the RJ usable in fewer situations....How many 50 seat RJ's do you think would be flying around if we were paid the same as as mainline DC9/MD80 crews? Maybe a few, but probably 40% or less of what there are today.

In my opinion, it's in every pilot's best interest to see pay increase at the regionals, although it would be better if we could get all jets back to mainline. Unfortunately it's almost impossible to hold the bar at the regional level since there's no brand or scope protection and your flying is constantly being put up for bid. This is a difficult situation to say the least. I'd certainly be giddy about a staple to the bottom of mainline, although some of the more senior guys would undoubtedy be a bit apprehnsive. I understand Comair was more or less offered that at one point, but it wouldn't fly. Short-sighted, I think. Look at the position those guys are in now....taking paycuts, all growth being awarded to MESA or REPUBLIC, flying similair equipment for 5-10 dollars less per hour, and the threat of losing airframes.

I have much respect for Delta and United pilots, but the way things have gone regarding scope and the relationship between regionals and mainline for the past 10 years seem to be a model for the way NOT to do things...

[ETAV8R]

Originally Posted by Alchemy

... seem to be a model for the way NOT to do things...

Your take Doug?
The regional pilots should only get pay increases if the mainline guys regain their former pay wages. Until that point, regionals should continue to fly regional a/c and earn a rate comparable to the level within the organization. If the mainlines want to absorb their regional feeders and restructure somewhat that might be one way of leveling things out. I don't agree with that though. Everyone has to pay their dues.
My post was more pointed to the grammar accident of "righting a check".

[Alchemy]

Originally Posted by eta71

Your take Doug?
The regional pilots should only get pay increases if the mainline guys regain their former pay wages. Until that point, regionals should continue to fly regional a/c and earn a rate comparable to the level within the organization. If the mainlines want to absorb their regional feeders and restructure somewhat that might be one way of leveling things out. I don't agree with that though. Everyone has to pay their dues.
My post was more pointed to the grammar accident of "righting a check".

I agree that everyone should "pay their dues". There's no doubt that if the RJ operators were absorbed into the majors, which is of course a pipe dream, that the hiring standards to fly an RJ would go up significantly.

As far as their being some proportionality between mainline and regional payscales, there undoubtedly is, even if it is indirect. When mainline payscales go down, there is even more pressure on the regionals to take lower pay....look at the USAir and JetBlue E190 rates, not much better than the 70 seater rates at most regionals. When you consider the savings from eliminating the regional middle-man, it's more economical for the airline to operate regional sized aircraft in-house if they can get labor to operate it at roughly regional wages.

Believe me, at the company I work for I hear about the "big raise" we got in our last contract from every mainline employee I talk to, be it a ramper or a gate agent or a pilot. Soon after we made small, but significant gains on our contract, mainline managment came at all employee groups on their side with concessions, which were all approved. The bitterness is definitely showing, and management is actually running a bit of a smear campaign, claiming they're going to save everyone's pension by putting our flying up for bid (riiiight...).

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Doug/Kristie

B767Driver

MDPilot

General Lee (I love him..in a totally platonic way)

MQAAord & Husband

and any other Delta pilots and employee families my support is with ya as are my prayers.

[BCTAv8r]

I wonder what management's master plan is. I mean, of course they knew that eventually the pilots would try to fight back. Do they plan on cutting the pay until they are working for free?

[Adam2006]

Foxnews??? Are you serious???

[Chris_Ford]

Originally Posted by Alchemy

The lower the pay at the regionals, the more viable it becomes to replace that 737 or MD80 with an RJ. At the regional level, just about the only thing we pilots can do to keep some semblance of domestic narrowbody flying at the majors is to demand pay and workrules that make the RJ usable in fewer situations....How many 50 seat RJ's do you think would be flying around if we were paid the same as as mainline DC9/MD80 crews? Maybe a few, but probably 40% or less of what there are today.

I think the solution is that people need to stop being so enamored with flying and realize it's a job. But for a lot of people, it's their only "skill" and the thought of not being able to do it irks them to the point where they'll accept subpar pay. This is especially apparent on the regional level... by the time one gets to the majors, it seems like they've realized it is work...