Regional airline question

British Pilot · March 25th, 2006, 22:28

I assumed as a FO you can only log SIC time, but then read something that brushed over the subject of a FO logging PIC.

Is it discretionary for the captain to fly one leg, and you fly the next, thus allowing you to build PIC too?

BobDDuck · March 25th, 2006, 22:36

You are thinking of when an FO can count 1/2 (I think) of their time to count towards the PIC requirment for the ICAO ATP rating.

Two other things. It is now required that FOs have an SIC type rating. This is really just a piece of paper, although a lot of people I have talked to seem to think that it is really a type rating and will be attractive on the resume. Somehow I doubt this. The second thing is that some people that are typed (PIC Type) in the aircraft think they can log actual PIC on any leg they fly. This has been discussed here before. As far as I am concerened, unless you sign for the airplane you shouldn't be logging PIC.

British Pilot · March 25th, 2006, 22:50

Ah, I see. That 1/2 time you can count towards your ATP though is just for that purpose I assume, and cannot be logged in your log book as such PIC.

What does ICAO mean?

AlexF · March 25th, 2006, 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by British Pilot

What does ICAO mean?

It's the International Civil Aviation Organization. It basically tries and sets standardization of the rules of flying for most of the world. It makes rules, techniques, and guidelines to follow from everything like accident investigation to navigation, to border crossing procedures. It is kinda like the United Nations (and is in fact part of it!).

Quote:

Originally Posted by www.icao.int

One of ICAO's chief activities is standardization, the establishment of International Standards, Recommended Practices and Procedures covering the technical fields of aviation: licensing of personnel, rules of the air, aeronautical meteorology, aeronautical charts, units of measurement, operation of aircraft, nationality and registration marks, airworthiness, aeronautical telecommunications, air traffic services, search and rescue, aircraft accident investigation, aerodromes, aeronautical information services, aircraft noise and engine missions, security and the safe transport of dangerous goods. After a Standard is adopted it is put into effect by each ICAO Contracting State in its own territories. As aviation technology continues to develop rapidly, the Standards are kept under constant review and amended as necessary.

wheelsup · March 25th, 2006, 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by British Pilot

I assumed as a FO you can only log SIC time, but then read something that brushed over the subject of a FO logging PIC.

Is it discretionary for the captain to fly one leg, and you fly the next, thus allowing you to build PIC too?

Yep, you split up the legs. I like how people refer to regional FO's as "gear monkey's"; it's kinda funny to have them think that. We do actually get to touch the flight controls, believe it or not!

The only thing FO's don't do much of is taxing the aircraft. The captain has the steering wheel while on the ground.

BobDDuck · March 25th, 2006, 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheelsup

Yep, you split up the legs. I like how people refer to regional FO's as "gear monkey's"; it's kinda funny to have them think that. We do actually get to touch the flight controls, believe it or not!

The only thing FO's don't do much of is taxing the aircraft. The captain has the steering wheel while on the ground.

THANK YOU!!!!

I registered a domian name as that a while ago and then I was talking about it in the crew room the other day and not one person had heard the term Gear Monkey. I thought it was pretty common, but apparently it isn't. I'm sorry... Gear B*tch was already taken.

casey · March 26th, 2006, 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by British Pilot

I assumed as a FO you can only log SIC time, but then read something that brushed over the subject of a FO logging PIC.

Is it discretionary for the captain to fly one leg, and you fly the next, thus allowing you to build PIC too?

regardless of who is flying, whoevers signature is on the dispatch release logs PIC. Even if the FO is type rated and flying (sole manipulator), at that point in your career FAR 1 PIC is what people want to see.

Bigey · March 26th, 2006, 05:52

Cant FO's also taxi the plane?

Doesnt the rudder pedals serve some amount of steering to the front wheel?

CFIse · March 26th, 2006, 07:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by British Pilot

Is it discretionary for the captain to fly one leg, and you fly the next, thus allowing you to build PIC too?

If the FO is type rated and the sole manipulator of the controls they can log PIC - that's what the FAA says, and it's the FAA that controls the legality of logging PIC.

There's all kinds of opinions about if you should log that as PIC, but you can. Most airlines are run by people who are slightly brighter than the box the in flight food comes in, so their applications want you to break out your time based on when you signed for the plane as PIC - which of course FO time doesn't count.

So that's one way to log PIC time as an FO.

Cheechako · March 26th, 2006, 09:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigey

Cant FO's also taxi the plane?

Doesnt the rudder pedals serve some amount of steering to the front wheel?

On the CRJ, the rudder pedals can turn the front wheel a max of 7 degrees while the tiller can turn 70 degrees. The numbers will be slightly different, but most airliners have the same setup.

Maximillian_Jenius · March 26th, 2006, 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigey

Cant FO's also taxi the plane?
Doesnt the rudder pedals serve some amount of steering to the front wheel?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyWChris

On the CRJ, the rudder pedals can turn the front wheel a max of 7 degrees while the tiller can turn 70 degrees. The numbers will be slightly different, but most airliners have the same setup.

There are some planes Serv that have "tillers" on both the captain and the FO's side of the cockpit. But for the most part taxiing is done by the captain!

Kingairer · March 27th, 2006, 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheelsup

Yep, you split up the legs. I like how people refer to regional FO's as "gear monkey's"; it's kinda funny to have them think that. We do actually get to touch the flight controls, believe it or not!

The only thing FO's don't do much of is taxing the aircraft. The captain has the steering wheel while on the ground.

Thats quite an oversimplification.

March 25th, 2006, 22:28	#1
British Pilot Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 110	Regional airline question I assumed as a FO you can only log SIC time, but then read something that brushed over the subject of a FO logging PIC. Is it discretionary for the captain to fly one leg, and you fly the next, thus allowing you to build PIC too?

March 25th, 2006, 22:36	#2
BobDDuck Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Left Seat Posts: 5,924	You are thinking of when an FO can count 1/2 (I think) of their time to count towards the PIC requirment for the ICAO ATP rating. Two other things. It is now required that FOs have an SIC type rating. This is really just a piece of paper, although a lot of people I have talked to seem to think that it is really a type rating and will be attractive on the resume. Somehow I doubt this. The second thing is that some people that are typed (PIC Type) in the aircraft think they can log actual PIC on any leg they fly. This has been discussed here before. As far as I am concerened, unless you sign for the airplane you shouldn't be logging PIC. __________________ TBJC08 The Gear Monkey The Gear Monkey Store

March 26th, 2006, 05:52	#8
Bigey Old Skool Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Socal Posts: 2,847	Cant FO's also taxi the plane? Doesnt the rudder pedals serve some amount of steering to the front wheel? __________________ 6/30 - PUBNAT4 7/31 - PUBNAT5 8/29 - PUBNAT6 8/27 - AT-SAT Authorized 9/08 - AT-SAT Scheduled 9/24 - AT-SAT (97%)

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March 25th, 2006, 22:50	#3
British Pilot Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 110	Ah, I see. That 1/2 time you can count towards your ATP though is just for that purpose I assume, and cannot be logged in your log book as such PIC. What does ICAO mean?