Purchasing an Airplane

[SibePilot311]

What have folks found to be the best resources for information on HOW to approach buying an airplane, WHAT to look for, and the DO'S and DON'TS of buying your first airplane?

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Originally Posted by SibePilot311

What have folks found to be the best resources for information on HOW to approach buying an airplane, WHAT to look for, and the DO'S and DON'TS of buying your first airplane?

Buy what you need for 80% of your mission, and think of the future needs. You can always rent for the other 20%. Don't get a six seater if you want to build time, fuel and insurance will get you. Don't get a 2 seater if you plan for weekend trips, even for 2, luggage could become an issue.

[MQAAord]

Find a good, trusted mechanic. They will be instrumental in helping you determine a great, airworthy machine that may have some old paint from a beautifully painted piece of crap.

[FlyNavy]

Are you an AOPA member? They have some of the best resources for ownership from what I've seen!

[Mr_Creepy]

I remember when I bought an airplane. Before I did it, a friend of mine literally grabbed me by the lapels, shook me, and said "are you out of your mind???"

A year and a half later, when I finally sold the plane at "what I paid for it" (with huge expenses in maintenance and insurance) I went back to him and asked him:

"Why didn't you shake me harder?"

[Nick]

From everything I've learned in classes, in reading on my own, and from people that have been in Mr. Creepy's position, I will second just what he said.

There are exceptions, though.

[MQAAord]

Generally speaking, being an A&P will help you in owning your own plane. Dad has had students in his A&P program who are in the program for the specific purpose of working on their own airplane.

The only reason my dad is considering buying a plane (he's going to look at a 310 next week) is becuase he's an A&P IA. Without that, maintenance costs would be astronomical.

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Originally Posted by MQAAord

The only reason my dad is considering buying a plane (he's going to look at a 310 next week) is becuase he's an A&P IA. Without that, maintenance costs would be astronomical.

He going to let you train in it?Can we train in it??????

[DE727UPS]

One thing about owning a plane, you need to fly it a lot or renting makes more sense. I don't fly my 152 much and I just figured out it's costing me $300 an hour. HAHA. It serves a purpose and I hope to be flying it more soon. I offered to give rides for kids at the Y in an at-risk youth program. I'll have to get rid of it, though, if I don't start flying it more.

[Spbeyond]

How much is an okay rental cost? Around here the cheapest is 80 bucks an hour for a 152, including oir and fuel. Is that good? What about 140 for a 172?

[MQAAord]

Originally Posted by ComplexHiAv8r

He going to let you train in it?Can we train in it??????

Ha! Multi training is so far in my future it's not even funny. It'll be literally years before I even need to start thinking about thinking about it!

Flight training takes two things I'm kind of short on right now, time and money!

[Nick]

Originally Posted by Spbeyond

How much is an okay rental cost? Around here the cheapest is 80 bucks an hour for a 152, including oir and fuel. Is that good? What about 140 for a 172?

It varies depending on where you are and what you're renting. If Signature Aviation at a major airport started renting 172s, you could assume that they'd be very expensive. Your local FBO might be a lot cheaper, but there are some out there that don't maintain their airplanes well, even new ones. $80 an hour for a 152 seems high to me, but I'm probably accustomed to different prices than you are and now that I think about the fuel surcharges many places put on hourly rates, $80 seems reasonable.

Since I assume you'll be renting from within an hour's drive of where you are quoting that 152 price, I'd suggest comparing all the rental prices from that renter and others in the area. Whether the region is above or below the national average rates doesn't matter. YOU will be able to get the best deal for what you've got available.

One more thing, $140 an hour for a 172 seems high no matter where you are. My opinion.

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Originally Posted by MQAAord

Flight training takes two things I'm kind of short on right now, time and money!

Don't lie to us, we know your husband is a 6 figure airline pilot!
Those six figures are $x,xxx.xx

Is your dad also a MEI?

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Ohio (North East) prices are around $95-105 for a newer 172 (non G1000). $85 for a 1970's model 172 with a Garmin 430 in it.

[shooter13]

There are several good book and I would recommend them. Let me look around and see if I hhave them still and I will send them to you. i bought my 150 about 6 months ago now and have loved having it. Yeah I am paying more than the rental rate. however, i can also go jump in mine when I want. Pretty day ona sunday, I can get the wife and fly up to Myrtle Beach for a nice lunch. Good luck getting a rental plane ona anice day and even if you do it costs you 70 - 120/hour. Mine pretty much costs the same if I fly it or not (except gas really) so I have incentive to go flying. The more I fly the less per hour it is also. I just changed the oil and had the cowling off. It is education to get inside the cowl with your engine and learn more about it. I can tell you way more about that airplane than I could the 172 I got my private in. Next onthe list after I save just a little more and convince the wife and also rob a bank is one of these....

http://www.yakity.com
I would also like to build an RV.

Found the books.

"Airplane Ownership" by Ronald J. Wanttaja

and

"The Illustrated Buyers Guide to Used Airplanes": by Bill Clarke (special Thanks goes out to Eagle for this one!)

If you are serious and have checked out all of the material on the AOPA site, PM me and I will send these to you as long as you promise to pass them along to someone else down the line.

[meritflyer]

I own a PA-28-201T and its a great airplane with very low maintenance costs.

When looking to buy one, you should consider damage history, landing gear (do not buy retractable), engine and prop times (usually less than 60% of TBO), interior, avionics, corrosion, hangered or tie down, flight school or private owner (no flight school planes!), turbocharged (I needed a TC airplane b/c of where I live) and maintenance logs.

Another huge thing to consider is the title. Alot of people get dumped into buying a plane with a less than clean title. I would take a look at either a 172, 182, or Piper Archer or Turbo Dakota. Great airplanes with low maintenance.

[MQAAord]

Originally Posted by ComplexHiAv8r

Don't lie to us, we know your husband is a 6 figure airline pilot!
Those six figures are $x,xxx.xx

Is your dad also a MEI?

That's about it for the '6 figures'!

Dad's got a commercial multi with an instrument rating along with his A&P IA. I think he got his ground instructor rating, but he's not a CFI.

[British Pilot]

I love buying toys, but the economist in me suggests you need to work out your break even. How many hours must you fly each month to break even, and how many hours do you need to fly to come out on top.

I thought about it too, but it's cheaper for me to rent a plane. That said everything in Boston is more expensive than it should be, and it's still cheaper to rent the next Skyhawks at the FBO.

Also, consider when you buy a plane, like anything you buy, you will use it a great deal less than you think, so be conservative.

[Tiger815]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

I own a PA-28-201T and its a great airplane with very low maintenance costs.

When looking to buy one, you should consider damage history, landing gear (do not buy retractable), engine and prop times (usually less than 60% of TBO), interior, avionics, corrosion, hangered or tie down, flight school or private owner (no flight school planes!), turbocharged (I needed a TC airplane b/c of where I live) and maintenance logs.

Another huge thing to consider is the title. Alot of people get dumped into buying a plane with a less than clean title. I would take a look at either a 172, 182, or Piper Archer or Turbo Dakota. Great airplanes with low maintenance.

.

I agree with most of meritflyers points here, but would stay away from anything with a turbo for a first plane. Also the the 182 is a mighty popular model and therefore tends to be on the high end of the price scale. Stone simple planes like the 172, Warrior/Cherokee 180/Archer/Pathfinder (Pipers answer to the 182)are the best bet for a successful 1st airplane ownership experience. I would add to the list the Grumman 4 seaters Traveler, Cheetah and Tiger.

You should also look into securing insurance prior to going very far looking at planes. Insurance companies have had huge losses with 9/11, followed by a couple of bad hurricane years. Underwriting standards have tightened considerably in the last few years. With out some time in type, you will pay higher premiums if they will even offer coverage. I'd suggest discussing what type of plane your interested in and your flight times with a good insurance broker to see if coverage will be available at a manageable cost.

Finally, I have to point out that if the decision to own a plane was always purely financial, very few of us would own. It's nearly impossible to justify on cost alone, but its sure nice being able to show up and fly when you want and keep the plane as long as you like without worry.

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Originally Posted by MQAAord

That's about it for the '6 figures'!

Dad's got a commercial multi with an instrument rating along with his A&P IA. I think he got his ground instructor rating, but he's not a CFI.

Sound about what my dad had. Everything but CFI.

[Mr_Creepy]

Nobody is listening to me!

"Have you lost your mind?"

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by Mr_Creepy

Nobody is listening to me!

Shocker!

[Mr_Creepy]

This is definitely one case where someone should listen!

Think about it.
Think how many hours of rental planes you could get for the interest and insurance payments alone.

Once you buy a plane, that's the one you have to fly!

[Nick]

Sibepilot311,

Sit down for a while with a paper and a calculator and run the numbers. You will probably find that you'll start to save money after 100 to 150 hours of flying per year.

If you want to buy your own plane and fly it 5 hours per week, that would make sense.

If you want to buy your own plane and fly it 1 hour per week, you'd probably be better off renting.

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by Mr_Creepy

This is definitely one case where someone should listen!

Think about it.
Think how many hours of rental planes you could get for the interest and insurance payments alone.

Once you buy a plane, that's the one you have to fly!

What if you just want an airplane?

"Don't get married! Just go down to see Air Force Amy at the Moonlight Bunny Ranch!"