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Old March 19th, 2006, 10:07   #26
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Originally Posted by SteveC


If I want a headache I'll do my own drinking, thank you very much.

Got a supply of Guiness draught. All ready for the Kansas vs. Pitt game today. Wait a minute.......D'Oh!!!!!!
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Old March 19th, 2006, 10:19   #27
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Originally Posted by flyover
Got a supply of Guiness draught. All ready for the Kansas vs. Pitt game today. Wait a minute.......D'Oh!!!!!!
Guiness works with sorrows as well as celebrations.

Oh BTW, I'm from Michigan. Got any extra sorrow-drowning suds?
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Old March 19th, 2006, 12:09   #28
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So with all these major guys retiring, the regional guys will move up and there'll be a bunch of regional jobs? When should this happen?
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Old March 19th, 2006, 12:48   #29
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Originally Posted by SteveC
Guiness works with sorrows as well as celebrations.

Oh BTW, I'm from Michigan. Got any extra sorrow-drowning suds?
Nope, too many legal age sons still around. There are never any extra suds at my house.

Next year I'm not buying any beer until they at least make the Sweet 16.
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Old March 19th, 2006, 15:11   #30
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Originally Posted by FatBastard
Doug, where can you dump trash that pays that well?? Enquiring minds want to know!
Everywhere.
Here's a few:
Culver City, CA $36,700
http://www.culvercity.org/uploads/jo...00585952AM.pdf

San Diego, $35,600-$42,600
http://apps.sandiego.gov/pjaol8/bull...r/transfer.pdf

Poughkeepsie, NY
"The starting salary is $28,472. After six months, the pay jumps to $31,635. At the end of 18 months, workers make $34,000 a year."
http://poughkeepsiejournal.com/proje...031704s2.shtml

Framingham, MA, $33,700
http://www.framinghamma.gov/web/JobP...%20(06-92).htm
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Old March 19th, 2006, 15:20   #31
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Originally Posted by BCTAv8r
So with all these major guys retiring, the regional guys will move up and there'll be a bunch of regional jobs? When should this happen?
It isn't going to happen. Pilot factories have been using the "1000s of pilots are retiring, there will be a shortage..." line for 20 years and it still hasn't happened.
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Old March 19th, 2006, 15:22   #32
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Originally Posted by NJA_Capt
Everywhere.
Here's a few:
Culver City, CA $36,700
http://www.culvercity.org/uploads/jo...00585952AM.pdf

San Diego, $35,600-$42,600
http://apps.sandiego.gov/pjaol8/bull...r/transfer.pdf

Poughkeepsie, NY
"The starting salary is $28,472. After six months, the pay jumps to $31,635. At the end of 18 months, workers make $34,000 a year."
http://poughkeepsiejournal.com/proje...031704s2.shtml

Framingham, MA, $33,700
http://www.framinghamma.gov/web/JobP...%20(06-92).htm
None of those places are cheap to live in.....
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Old March 19th, 2006, 16:54   #33
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Originally Posted by frog_flyer
its all one list. when you get the seniority you can move into the left seat. but you'll have last pick at trips. thats why some guys like to sit as a very senior fo instead of upgrading
I know a guy who's sister is a senior FO for a major. He said she flies alot of international flights. She has a family and likes to make the decision of when she works. She will not upgrade to captain.
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Old March 19th, 2006, 18:05   #34
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Originally Posted by NJA_Capt
It isn't going to happen. Pilot factories have been using the "1000s of pilots are retiring, there will be a shortage..." line for 20 years and it still hasn't happened.
LOL. And why hasn't there been a shortage? Because of all the pilot factories.

I remember having a discussion with our VP of FltOps about 20 years ago. He was worried about a pilot shortage and said the company was looking at European style setups where they trained their own pilots.

Of course it never was an issue because the pilot factories ramped up big time.

Believe it or not all pilots eventually retire. I spent most of my career waiting for guys to retire, then the next thing I knew all those guys and I were retired.
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Old March 19th, 2006, 19:11   #35
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Originally Posted by notawannabee
I know a guy who's sister is a senior FO for a major. He said she flies alot of international flights. She has a family and likes to make the decision of when she works. She will not upgrade to captain.
Depending on what airline she is at that may not be an option. I know several of up or out policies in effect.
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Old March 19th, 2006, 20:12   #36
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Originally Posted by flyover
And why hasn't there been a shortage? Because of all the pilot factories.
The first point that came to mind was the retirement of the 3 pilot aircraft in the 80s-90s (DC8 & 10s, L10-11, B727). Right off the bat, 30% less pilots were needed and the "entry level" (ie low timer) positions went away.
Next came the end of two major airlines (Pan Am and Eastern). The market was again flooded with experienced pilots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyover
I spent most of my career waiting for guys to retire, then the next thing I knew all those guys and I were retired.
I've met a few of those. One spent 22+ years as an FO and the last 3 as Capt. That is something that people don't think about when airlines are hiring 2000 25-30 year old pilots. You don't upgrade until someone retires. If all the guys immediately ahead of you are the same age, guess what?

Then again, the way airlines are going out of business and pilots jumping jobs every 5 years, very few pilots will see the 20 year (High $$) salaries that were once abundant.
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Old March 19th, 2006, 20:47   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJA_Capt
The first point that came to mind was the retirement of the 3 pilot aircraft in the 80s-90s (DC8 & 10s, L10-11, B727). Right off the bat, 30% less pilots were needed and the "entry level" (ie low timer) positions went away.
Next came the end of two major airlines (Pan Am and Eastern). The market was again flooded with experienced pilots.
The three pilot to two was definitely a factor. And another was the increasing productivity of the pilots that were left. When I came to work in the late 70s the senior guys flew so seldom they had a hard time remembering how to get to the airport. 70 hour caps. 6 weeks of vacation with all touching trips dropped and paid.

But all that was more than compensated for by the big growth the industry experienced. I wasn't suggesting I spent my career as an FO. I just wanted to be more senior as a captain. (grass is always greener)
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Old March 20th, 2006, 01:11   #38
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Originally Posted by BobDDuck
Depending on what airline she is at that may not be an option. I know several of up or out policies in effect.
interesting. I did not know there was such a policy.
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Old March 20th, 2006, 10:56   #39
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Originally Posted by Chris_Ford
None of those places are cheap to live in.....
Neither are some of the regional pilot bases like EWR, LAX, IAH, DFW etc.
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Old March 20th, 2006, 11:04   #40
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Originally Posted by NJA_Capt
Neither are some of the regional pilot bases like EWR, LAX, IAH, DFW etc.
Yes but it's easier to commute from somewhere cheap than it would be to drive to pick up trash
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Old March 20th, 2006, 16:04   #41
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Originally Posted by Chris_Ford
Yes but it's easier to commute from somewhere cheap than it would be to drive to pick up trash
Hmmm.
They don't have to commute and they make more money......
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Old March 20th, 2006, 16:24   #42
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Originally Posted by NJA_Capt
Hmmm.
They don't have to commute and they make more money......
No, I'm a second year regional FO and make more money than all of those garbage collector salaries. Minus the high-end San Diego one of $42,000 a year.
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Old March 20th, 2006, 18:50   #43
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Originally Posted by NJA_Capt
Hmmm.
They don't have to commute and they make more money......
Yes but their C.O.L. is twice as high, that's my point! Look at prices of real estate within an hour of San Diego (save Tijuana...) and tell me that you can find a place that you feel safe in and can live in for $35k/year. That's the point, meanwhile you could live in Salt Lake City and commute to SAN and be able to save money on COL.

Saying "X makes more money than Y" isn't always so black and white. How much value does one put on flight benefits?

Example: A pro golfer who makes $400k a year versus a university president who makes $250k. Clearly the golfer makes more, right? Except that he has to pay to get to all his tournaments, pay entry fees, hotel arrangements, etc. Meanwhile the university president is given a house, a private jet, a car, and a hotel if he ever has to stay anywhere. Clearly the university president is "better off"
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Old March 20th, 2006, 21:46   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_Ford
Yes but ....
FB asked Doug where you could make that much dumping trash and I provided a few answers, plain and simple. It is what it is.

Last edited by NJA_Capt; March 20th, 2006 at 22:08.
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Old March 21st, 2006, 00:34   #45
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I don't know what's worse...the fact that the salary is more for the garbage man or that the idea turned into a debate
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Old March 21st, 2006, 01:02   #46
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Originally Posted by AFdude411
Ja das ist eine gute idee! Was sagst du Doug? Bitte!
nein, das is nicht gut....die forum ist spreche zie english...
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Old March 21st, 2006, 01:05   #47
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Originally Posted by AFdude411
Ja das ist eine gute idee! Was sagst du Doug? Bitte!
Aww, most of you guys talk American anyway!
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Old March 21st, 2006, 01:06   #48
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tried to write japanese characters...it didn't work
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Old March 21st, 2006, 01:07   #49
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Oh hell, my brother sprays bugs for Tulare County (Well, mosquito abatement) and earns in the mid-$60's.
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Old March 21st, 2006, 01:09   #50
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Oh hell, my brother sprays bugs for Tulare County (Well, mosquito abatement) and earns in the mid-$60's.
put some wings on his truck and WHOOLAH !!
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