What Happens When Computers Replace Us

[Theotokos]

Not sure if this was more apt for pics from the road or not.

My computer progamming teacher was right. Computers are only smart as the user. Look what happens when we let technology try to replace somthing a human should do. It will be a sad say if computers one day replace pilots. And also a tragic one. I would think there would always be some human there to correct for computer problems. Hopefully, we just let humans keep on flying planes.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0AOgwcigi...rplane%20crash

[Theotokos]

I suppose it could be argued humans err....it should be pointed out, humans can reason. Computers cannot the least bit. I am not sure how this would work actually. Would a pilot be flying the plane from a computer or somthing? Or would a lousy computer do it all?

[BCTAv8r]

Actually, it wasn't fully automated. There were pilots in that airplane and they were killed in the crash. I don't remember where I got this info but I'm pretty sure.

[Theotokos]

Originally Posted by BCTAv8r

Actually, it wasn't fully automated. There were pilots in that airplane and they were killed in the crash. I don't remember where I got this info but I'm pretty sure.

Ah, my fault for jumping the gun. But still, the day will sadly come when pilots may just be there to monitor and nothing more. I mean I am sure half the fun of being a commerical pilot is landng the plane. Then again, there will always be a button to overide the automatic flying plane I am sure.

[jtrain609]

Computers will NEVER replace humans. Know why? 'Cause I've got a dead one sitting next to me that won't boot. You can't have that with an airplane.

[JEP]

Originally Posted by John Herreshoff

Computers will NEVER replace humans. Know why? 'Cause I've got a dead one sitting next to me that won't boot. You can't have that with an airplane.

That's what happens when you use a computer named after a fruit.

[C150J]

Originally Posted by Theotokos

Ah, my fault for jumping the gun. But still, the day will sadly come when pilots may just be there to monitor and nothing more. I mean I am sure half the fun of being a commerical pilot is landng the plane. Then again, there will always be a button to overide the automatic flying plane I am sure.

I battled with this thought for a while, but honestly, I think the automation is cool. Pilots have become more "administrative," but that's awesome! To learn about these systems requires the same professionalism and skill base as those who flew without them. Easier in some ways, more involved in others. This thought certainly isn't meant to diminish the skills of the DC-3 drivers that forged our way...

J.

[jtrain609]

Not quite, this is my PC

I just threw a new video card in it and musta bumped something when I was doing so. Reseated the RAM and the display finally started working, but then I had to reset the BIOS to get the thing to turn on. Now I'm playing with the BIOS and trying to get the POS to work.

[Sprint100]

This thread makes me wanna watch the Terminator trilogy.

[FlyWhiteSox]

This was the first crash of a "fly by wire" aircraft, nothing else.

3 fatalities, 50 injuries. Crew survived.

There was proof that the FDR in this aircraft was tampered with following the crash in an attempt to cover up a series of events involving severe negligence.

Here is a link to a full review.

http://www.airdisaster.com/investiga...96/af296.shtml

[flyover]

Originally Posted by Theotokos

I suppose it could be argued humans err....it should be pointed out, humans can reason. Computers cannot the least bit. I am not sure how this would work actually. Would a pilot be flying the plane from a computer or somthing? Or would a lousy computer do it all?

The problem with the "humans can reason" argument is the more humans "reason" in aviation the less safe it is. There has been a great improvement in safety in pretty much every area where reasoning and decision making have been taken out of the equation.

There are a number of factors driving the inevitable move to fully automated flying. One will be the ability to increase traffic flow. I think it will also be shown that safety will actually improve. And of course, costs can again be reduced when the cockpit crew is just one autopilot monitor and a dog.

But it's still a long way off. The military will lead the way on this technology.

[jtrain609]

I don't think so, flyover. You've gotta realize that a computer can ONLY execute code, and it will never be able to think up a creative solution to a problem. It can only detect that there is something happening, figure out what it is (and with good luck identify's it), and then finds the piece of code for the solution.

If it can't indentify the problem, or the code doesn't exist with a solution then the thing goes TU and stops working. No thanks, I'll take something that can think a problem through instead of a machine.

[Doug Taylor]

I've got to disagree on that one. You're overriding an experienced crew's judgement with what a computer software engineer programmed based upon feedback from a flight test engineer.

How well did that VNAV work in the -800 again, Flyover?

[PhilosopherPilot]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

I've got to disagree on that one. You're overriding an experienced crew's judgement with what a computer software engineer programmed based upon feedback from a flight test engineer.

How well did that VNAV work in the -800 again, Flyover?

I think the next 50 years are going to be telling for aviation. When neural networks and AI become advanced, it will just be a matter of time. For passenger service, the pax will be the most limiting factor, not the technology.

As us old fogies die off, and more tech adjusted youngsters come to age, the pax service will eventually switch over. To think otherwise is just denying the inevitable. Think about what people said about aviation in 1906. No one could imagine where things would go in 100 or even 50 years. I'm sure we are all afflicted with the same short sightedness. I just hope I live long enough to see some really cool things!

G

[flyover]

Originally Posted by John Herreshoff

I don't think so, flyover. You've gotta realize that a computer can ONLY execute code, and it will never be able to think up a creative solution to a problem. It can only detect that there is something happening, figure out what it is (and with good luck identify's it), and then finds the piece of code for the solution.

If it can't indentify the problem, or the code doesn't exist with a solution then the thing goes TU and stops working. No thanks, I'll take something that can think a problem through instead of a machine.

I hear you. And it's hard to foresee a time, at least in transport of humans, that some human oversight won't be there.

But "creative solutions" are antithetical to safe operations. All of the push in safety areas that I've observed over the last 30 years have been to eliminate any opportunity for crews to be creative. And the accident rate has dramatically improved.

Fully automated flight will be a reality. First it wil entail lots of human monitoring. Then as the safety of the concept is proven with time, that will diminish.

[flyover]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

I've got to disagree on that one. You're overriding an experienced crew's judgement with what a computer software engineer programmed based upon feedback from a flight test engineer.

Yup, and things will be safer for it. One of the reasons this is hard to imagine is we are taking automated systems we're familiar with and trying to project them into the future. All you have to do is remember what technology was like 30 years ago. Then try to imagine what will be available 30 years from now. And truthfully, fully automated flight is already a reality.

Believe me I'm glad this stuff won't take over for a couple of more decades. But it definitely will.

How well did that VNAV work in the -800 again, Flyover?

Actually not that bad if you knew how to massage the wind forecast in the descent profile. But it was pretty old tech. The HGS on the other hand was a window into the future. When you flew the data it produced you could easily control airspeed within a knot or two and make good landings every time. And I mean without seeing the runway.

[scramjet]

I think computers will complement (as they already do) not replace pilots. Case in point, highly automated unmanned rockets still require (to paraphrase a technical website) "a room full of lab coated PhDs to make them fly." Most manned space missions have a pilot onboard for safety reasons and to make judgement calls. I can see something like a souped up Cessna (in the future) being able to fly completely by itself as a flying family car, but if commercial aircraft get faster (which is, IMO, bound to happen sometime), someone's going to need to be on board to know how to fly the thing in an emergency and, as said before about spaceships, make judgement calls.
All the same, I think I'll get an Engineering or Computer Science degree just in case...

[pscraig]

When computers replace pilots, I'll buy one of those surplus missile silos and live far underground. As a former IT support droid, I have a slight distrust of any information from a computer. I've even found small errors in our FMS Jeppesen database-who will be there to prevent a computer from flying into a mountain?

[frog_flyer]

that crash is from the paris airshow way back is not not?

[flyover]

Originally Posted by pscraig

When computers replace pilots, I'll buy one of those surplus missile silos and live far underground. As a former IT support droid, I have a slight distrust of any information from a computer. I've even found small errors in our FMS Jeppesen database-who will be there to prevent a computer from flying into a mountain?

Probably more redundancy than is there to keep humans from doing it now.

[BCTAv8r]

What about FAs being replaced by robots?

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by BCTAv8r

What about FAs being replaced by robots?

Then I could still get a Fresca in turbulence!

[Kingairer]

The A320 will never make it!

[BCTAv8r]

Originally Posted by Kingairer

The A320 will never make it!

It already has.

[pscraig]

Originally Posted by BCTAv8r

What about FAs being replaced by robots?

We could just put a row of vending machines on the jetway, just before boarding.