Does race have anything to do with it...?

[fender_jag]

Was race involved? Who knows. But it's all about persistence. If he keeps plugging away, he should find a good employer eventually.

[Diamnd15]

he did, he's an instructor for a flight school that takes japan airlines students

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by flyover

Yes, lots of racists here.

Well, I don't know about all that . . .

I just think that alot of people are afraid to discuss it.

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by John Herreshoff

I'd say it, but I only think like three people would get the joke.

[flyover]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Well, I don't know about all that . . .

I just think that alot of people are afraid to discuss it.

LOL. I have to agree with you there. Being an old fat white guy I would rather walk through an unswept minefield.

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by flyover

LOL. I have to agree with you there. Being an old fat white guy I would rather walk through an unswept minefield.

For some reason, I just pictured an old fat white guy, naked, walking through a minefield!!! LOL . . .

I think it's one of those things that we desperately need to deal with, on both sides. Unfortunately, as soon as it's brought up by a white person, (s)he's a racist, and as soon as a person of color brings it up, their "pulling the race card".

It's unfortunate . . .

[Windchill]

For some reason, I just pictures an old fat white guy, naked, walking through a minefield!!! LOL . . .

Isn't it funny how all things gravitate back toward The Family Guy

Don't ever recall a minefield ... but the old fat white guy automatically caused Peter Griffin to pop in.

[Texasspilot]

While I don't have any stats I would say that race has nothing to do with your instructor not getting on after interviews at several airlines. Could it possibly have been one...maybe. But two or three no way, I'd say he needs to study more and get some interview practice in before the next one.

[flyover]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

For some reason, I just pictured an old fat white guy, naked, walking through a minefield!!! LOL . . .

I think it's one of those things that we desperately need to deal with, on both sides. Unfortunately, as soon as it's brought up by a white person, (s)he's a racist, and as soon as a person of color brings it up, their "pulling the race card".

It's unfortunate . . .

I agree. I'm a big fan of Morgan Freeman and even more so for some of the stands he's taken lately.

It was unintentionally ironic but the Atlanta Journal recently published a student editorial. In it the well-spoken young lady was exhorting her fellow students to stop segregating (at her all black school) into groups based on their skin tone. After all, she felt they all needed to remember they were black so they could band together and fight the white man. Sigh.

But I'm an optimist.

[pilot602]

Originally Posted by Diamnd15

Well while chatting with my instructor he said that for the several interviews he attended, he (Asian), and the other minorities were the first person not make to the next step of the interview. My instructor to my knowledge is very qualified, he had interviews at scenic, American eagle, pinnacle, and other regional’s. He has his ATP and about 1700 hours TT, and some pic turbine as well but hasn’t landed a job after a lot of interviews, now he’s going to instruct for a flight school that has a contract with Japan airlines. But my question is, I am African American, and being so in the end will it be harder for me to get a regional job just because of it. I work for united and I have only seen a hand full of African American pilots, and only one Asian pilot in the 6 months I have been working here. Does anyone know some statistics of the diversity of airplane pilots etc…? Thanks a lot everyone

Well, considering the first step at the Scenic interview is a 30 question ATP written test I very seriously doubt race had much to do with it. A lot of people don't take the YR interview seriously and about 35-40% of ALL applicants fail out on the written.

If he didn't fail out on the written then; I have had a few friends not get on at Scenic who had high time. I think, don't quote me, but I think it might be because they're afraid a person with higher time will get a few hundred hours of turbine time and then bail very quickly. The attrition rate ar Scenic is pretty high (it's actually higher on the FO list than on th CA side). So the company is kind of sensitive in hiring people they think are going to stick around at least a little while.

[flyover]

Originally Posted by Windchill

Isn't it funny how all things gravitate back toward The Family Guy

Don't ever recall a minefield ... but the old fat white guy automatically caused Peter Griffin to pop in.

Yes, Homer Simpson was my standard for years. But Peter Griffin is now. I only hope I can live up to it.

During my early years as a man and a father I looked to Atticus Finch for guidance. But it was just too hard.

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by 06Flyer

I guess noboby really takes his post seriously. Everyone is making jokes. But I think its a serious question.

Personally, I don't think race is an issue in the airline business at all.

(I'm the brown guy on the front page of the website standing in front of an MD-90 I've been flying for 9 years)

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Personally, I don't think race is an issue in the airline business at all.

(I'm the brown guy on the front page of the website standing in front of an MD-90 I've been flying for 9 years)

Affirmative Action at work...

[BCTAv8r]

I'm Brazilian and I know 3 FOs for regionals that are also Brazilian. Shouldn't be a problem. People don't even know I'm not an American if I don't tell them.

[tonyw]

Originally Posted by BCTAv8r

I'm Brazilian and I know 3 FOs for regionals that are also Brazilian. Shouldn't be a problem. People don't even know I'm not an American if I don't tell them.

Yeah, but aren't Brazillians classified as white?

[notawannabee]

My previous instructor is African American ( I hate political correctness ) and he got hired at Chautaugua about a year ago. That statement in itself is not that important. But to relate it to your question, he said it actually helped him. I didn't get into the specifics with him as why, but I assume that would be at least one airline that holds diversity as important.

[Kenny C.]

It doesn't matter what color you are today, black, brown, yellow, or whatever. Everyone has the SAME opportunities as the guy standing next to him. That's what make America the country it is.

[frog_flyer]

unless you're trying to get into college

[Doug Taylor]

True. Riddle knocked down my door and gave me a free education just to get a little color in their alumni pool.

[Red5xwingdriver]

That's a good question, and a shame that it still is asked in this day and age. Unlike what my avatar implies, I'm African-American as well, and I had concerns about my chances of making it to the airlines as well. As it was said in a previous post, work hard, and you'll get there.
However, let me outline what SOME(not ALL) people who are not of color are thinking.....I had attended Spartan School of Aeronautics in the late 90's, and as I was conversing with another student who was also African-American, he told me that his ground school instructor told the class that they had to "work hard, because ahead of YOU guys and minorities and women". Oh, it get's better, on a different day this same instructor says, "you know, black women would make the best pilots, because they have to overcome so much. When they're growing up, they are being physically, emotionally, and verbally abused." Well, if a certain number of black women in this country live in black neighborhoods and usually are raised by black parents...the WHO THE HELL IS IT THAT ABUSES THEM! (in case you don't get it, the implication is......TADAAAAA....us BLACK MEN!!). I was appalled to say the least, since the newer students usually saw instructors as "know all, see all" gods of aviation.
Also, my ex-employer, when I had lunch with him at the beginning of my employment with his company told me that he knew of an airline pilot that was pissed that blacks and women were "stealing" the flying jobs. My ex-employer then pointed out to him that it was impossible for a small percentage of a people who were already a minority could "steal" jobs. My question to that gentleman would have been how he felt back in the "good old days", when you saw really NO black or female airline pilots (keeping in mind, if you were black AND a woman, you were screwed over TWICE!)....would he have spoken against the hiring practices, or just continued to keep quiet while one qualified black pilot after another got rejected (a 1978 issue of Ebony magazine detailed this, but I don't remember which month it was for).
I was also told by my ex-employer that the airlines, at least a certain number of years ago, practiced non-hiring of black pilots because "they were afraid of losing money". In other words, the passengers would supposedly freak if they saw someone black going into the cockpit.
By the way, after WWII, when some of the Tuskeegee Airmen tried to gain airline employment, not ONE of them was hired. In fact, in an interview on the History Channel, one of the gentlemen recounted that he tried to get on with Pan Am (at the old Pan Am building in Manhattan, now MetLife), he saw the secretary ripping up his application and throwing it in the garbage when he went back in there to retrieve his newspaper. When he confronted her about what she thought she was doing, she said..."well, I'm sorry sir, but we don't hire coloreds here." Hmmmm, a war hero can't get an airline job, go figure. Anyway, that was then, the chances are better now.
However, DON'T be deceived, no amount of affirmative action can legislate against the level of bitterness, hatred, or fear that someone holds in his/her heart against someone of a different race or gender. It only provides protection against the ACTIONS that some people would try to take against us. This ran long, but I wanted to be thorough.;-)
Just remember though that there is a way to remember the history without letting it make you bitter (not to say that you are by the way), for it is said that if we don't know the past, we're dommed to repeat it. Work hard, work smart, keep your head up...and no matter how long it takes, you WILL succeed!

[Diamnd15]

thanks you for all for your input, i guess it doesn't have much to do with it, but i will continue to work hard to achieve my goals regardless...all of the serious posts helped a lot and i thank you guys for contributing

[Sprint100]

Originally Posted by Red5xwingdriver

That's a good question, and a shame that it still is asked in this day and age. Unlike what my avatar implies, I'm African-American as well, and I had concerns about my chances of making it to the airlines as well. As it was said in a previous post, work hard, and you'll get there.
However, let me outline what SOME(not ALL) people who are not of color are thinking.....I had attended Spartan School of Aeronautics in the late 90's, and as I was conversing with another student who was also African-American, he told me that his ground school instructor told the class that they had to "work hard, because ahead of YOU guys and minorities and women". Oh, it get's better, on a different day this same instructor says, "you know, black women would make the best pilots, because they have to overcome so much. When they're growing up, they are being physically, emotionally, and verbally abused." Well, if a certain number of black women in this country live in black neighborhoods and usually are raised by black parents...the WHO THE HELL IS IT THAT ABUSES THEM! (in case you don't get it, the implication is......TADAAAAA....us BLACK MEN!!). I was appalled to say the least, since the newer students usually saw instructors as "know all, see all" gods of aviation.
Also, my ex-employer, when I had lunch with him at the beginning of my employment with his company told me that he knew of an airline pilot that was pissed that blacks and women were "stealing" the flying jobs. My ex-employer then pointed out to him that it was impossible for a small percentage of a people who were already a minority could "steal" jobs. My question to that gentleman would have been how he felt back in the "good old days", when you saw really NO black or female airline pilots (keeping in mind, if you were black AND a woman, you were screwed over TWICE!)....would he have spoken against the hiring practices, or just continued to keep quiet while one qualified black pilot after another got rejected (a 1978 issue of Ebony magazine detailed this, but I don't remember which month it was for).
I was also told by my ex-employer that the airlines, at least a certain number of years ago, practiced non-hiring of black pilots because "they were afraid of losing money". In other words, the passengers would supposedly freak if they saw someone black going into the cockpit.
By the way, after WWII, when some of the Tuskeegee Airmen tried to gain airline employment, not ONE of them was hired. In fact, in an interview on the History Channel, one of the gentlemen recounted that he tried to get on with Pan Am (at the old Pan Am building in Manhattan, now MetLife), he saw the secretary ripping up his application and throwing it in the garbage when he went back in there to retrieve his newspaper. When he confronted her about what she thought she was doing, she said..."well, I'm sorry sir, but we don't hire coloreds here." Hmmmm, a war hero can't get an airline job, go figure. Anyway, that was then, the chances are better now.
However, DON'T be deceived, no amount of affirmative action can legislate against the level of bitterness, hatred, or fear that someone holds in his/her heart against someone of a different race or gender. It only provides protection against the ACTIONS that some people would try to take against us. This ran long, but I wanted to be thorough.;-)
Just remember though that there is a way to remember the history without letting it make you bitter (not to say that you are by the way), for it is said that if we don't know the past, we're dommed to repeat it. Work hard, work smart, keep your head up...and no matter how long it takes, you WILL succeed!

Exactly why it cant be ignored and must be spoken on. There are still knuckleheads that think its OK. I gotta admit, I do get a kick out of the subtle racism and classism going on today.

[HorizonCRJ]

I think everyone has to deal with a racist at one point. I could beat the crap out of every guy who called me Chief or warning me about what happens to Indians when they drink the white mans fire water. But instead I move on and avoid the situation. If the interviewer has a problem with my race, I wouldn’t work for him/her anyway. Don’t dwell on the raciest, just stay positive, work hard and you’ll find your place.
Regarding the T-shirt with the slogan “Fighting Terrorism Since 1492”, just go to a local Pow Wow this summer and you’ll find one.

[KLB]

Darn you Red5xwingdriver.

You stole everything I was about to type. The first black airline pilot in the United States, Mr Marlon Green, wasn't hired till 1965. And even then, he had to take it all the way to the supreme court to make it happen. That was only 41 years ago!...just a little history lesson.

The Tuskeegee airmen are sort of my heros (hence my avatar) and have been a great inspiration to me. If they did it back when they were thought to be inferior and "scientifically" proven to have smaller brains that couldn't possibly have the capacity to operate sofisticated equipment as such in an aircraft, I know I could/can make it. It's no suprise to me that they did so well in the war. They were all college graduates with masters and some Phd's and they trained far longer than any other unit while the "experiment" was going on. There were alot of black pilot pioneers before the Tuskeegee airmen. Eugene Bullard, an American, flew in WW1 for the French Foreign legion.

While I'm edging closer to the 900TT mark, I'm not really worried about racism playing a part in me getting past an interview. They don't know what race I am by my resume (ok maybe they do because of my email address) and that is the merit which will get me on the big stage. And then it's up to me to give them the academy award performance. It's my goal to be atleast as twice as better than anyone else at that interview when that time comes. Thats why I am preparing now for the interviews that should be approaching soon.

[Red5xwingdriver]

Originally Posted by KLB

Darn you Red5xwingdriver.

You stole everything I was about to type.

Oooooops . Actually, I'm sure that you know that Mr.Bullard ended up doing menial jobs after his flying career was cut short (I won't go into why, it should be obvious). And there were apparently TWO Tuskeegee experiments....the first was to see if we could "really" fly, and the other.... ! I'll end that one there. Anyway, as long as we all keep our eyes on the prize (even with all this labor stuff and pension stuff going on), we'll make it...Don't give up, I know I won't ! To the victor goes the spoils, and with knowledge, skill, and some grit (a la ChiSox, although I'm a YANKEE fan!) the goal gets met!