Airline Training Academy (ATA) locks its doors... - Page 2

davetheflyer · February 28th, 2003, 11:57

My sympathies are with the ATA students like Marcus. I agree with Chunk also: Get a lawyer and hang onto anything that you have in writing such as contracts, ads, syllabi, whatever.

I'd also recommend calling Clark Howard's Consumer Action Center at (404) 892-8227. Clark has a syndicated consumer radio show and his folks can be extremely helpful. You can also check out his website at clarkhoward.com.

Good luck.

marcusprice · February 28th, 2003, 12:23

Unfortunately we've all been on with lawyers this morning and everyone of them has told us 'tough luck' as we are last in line to get any kind of settlement and the attorne gerneral said pretty much the same thing.

Rob Williams is a captain for ATA the airline though so dateline and some other big news shows are going to find out what kind of people ATA hire to fly their planes.

darrenf · February 28th, 2003, 12:46

Here is my tribute to ATA.

Don't fly here

Make sure your speakers are on.

bumflip · February 28th, 2003, 12:48

ready2fly · February 28th, 2003, 12:55

Awww HELL that's funny!! I've left it up and have it playing in the background.

marcusprice · February 28th, 2003, 13:53

Just got a call back from ATA the airline after emailing them with a rundown of what their scumbag pilots are up to and they said they're not responsible for what their employees do on their own time.

I carbon copied my email to Dateline and bunch of the others so let's see where we can go from here.

If anyone out there does manage to get a lawyer willing to take a class action case let me know.

bumflip · February 28th, 2003, 14:13

RFguy · February 28th, 2003, 15:09

http://www.floridaair.com/discoverair/da_contact.html

Also there were signs of this last year,....see the following link to the Seminole County Clerk of the Court.....do a public record search.

http://officialrecords.seminoleclerk.org/

and for Orange County:

http://orangeclerk.onetgov.net/restr...lerk/index.htm
(login: public password: public) <--use lowercase letters

kansaspilot · February 28th, 2003, 18:03

Yup, someone from marketing called me on the 26th asking if I was still interested in their school.

MikeD · February 28th, 2003, 18:24

These ab-initio buy-a-job schools are all the same; news story doesn't suprise me.

Doug, remember the job market as we were leaving Riddle in the early 1990s? Back when being a Riddle IP was a highly sought-after job? What a joke

My diatribe is directed at a culture that I see growing more and more in GA as a whole. Too many times, I see CFIs in the industry that are timebuilding for a better job, which is certainly a great opportunity to climb the ladder, so to speak, and build flight time and experience. I'm all for that. Problem is, many I've seen lack the knowlege of the basics, such as VDP computation and other rules like the 60 to 1, that they then fail to pass down to their students. The reason they don't know in the first place is because they weren't taught by their instructors, etc, etc. And so, critical information and knowlege fails to be taught to a newer generation of pilots, which results in a general "dumbing-down" of the GA population as a whole.

Examples of this can be seen (rather heard) on ATC frequencies daily: The confused-sounding pilot that's just not getting what ATC is trying to tell them. And I'm NOT talking about students, that's expected in the learning environment. But I'm talking about CFIs themselves. I overheard a Piper Aztec one day tooling around the Phoenix area practicing approaches to various fields. The guys flying it weren't following ATC instructions properly, and were missing instructions too. Not a few times, mind you, but a good number of times. They pulled into the same FBO that I parked at after landing, and they were 3 CFIs! WTF? Where'd they get their tickets from? They were pretty task saturated on practice approaches in VMC. Hate to see them placed in something a little more challenging.

New pilots should try to gain as much knowlege on their own, and when they hear new things, jump right on them and learning the new concepts that you can later file into your proverbial flying bag-of-tricks; the same bag-of-tricks that just may save your bacon someday. Too many CFIs I see aren't really interested in teaching, they're interested in just adding that 1.0 into their logbook. Too many more are "homegrown" and not taught important knowlege that should've been passed down by their IPs that probably didn't know anyway.

MD

robair73 · February 28th, 2003, 19:27

I just learned 60 to 1 today. yeah.

pavelump · February 28th, 2003, 19:51

Is that kind of like 25 or 6 to 4 ?

Dave

chunk75 · February 28th, 2003, 20:06

...or Take 5...

Dah dah dah dit dah bomp bomp bah

jdflight · February 28th, 2003, 20:35

Despite the embarrassment of asking so close to my instrument ride, I'll bite. What's VDP and 60 to 1?

pavelump · February 28th, 2003, 20:43

not to get too far off the subject, but when I clicked on this thread, it had 666 views.

freaky. i should go to bed now.

cimepilot · February 28th, 2003, 20:50

Sorry to hear about all the ATA guys/girls that lost out. I drove up to ATA this morning and saw all the news trcuks and police cars parked outside only to find out what had happened. Around 5PM tonight I walked into the flight school next to ATA where I am working on my CFI-I to find several ATA students and instructors having a meeting. If any ATA people attended that meeting, what was said? Will that school (no metion of names) be helping ya'll out?

I hate to make this plug, but anyone from ATA or in Orlando looking for a CFI, send me a PM. I may be able to help you out. Again, I feel really bad for all who attended ATA and lost out. I hope everything works out for the best. Go get those crooks!

PurduePilot · February 28th, 2003, 20:58

A VDP is a visual descent point.

chunk75 · February 28th, 2003, 21:02

Generally used for faster, heavier aircraft that use VNAV (Vertical nav mode a/p). It's the MAP for those using VNAV to give them time to go missed.

Jets don't like to truck it in at MDA for 5 miles...

mfloyd · March 1st, 2003, 06:02

60 - 1 rule

For every 60 miles out from facility, 1 degree of bearing change = 1 nm

Mark

EDUC8-or · March 1st, 2003, 06:10

I just saw a piece about this on the local news channel. The assistant chief pilot said "They (the owners) were great people and they tried to do anything for their students and pull out all of the stops to keep this place open."

That's why they want all of your $ up front and they were trying to take money until the doors closed. Sound like real nice people to me!

Eagle · March 1st, 2003, 10:04

[ QUOTE ]
60 - 1 rule
For every 60 miles out from facility, 1 degree of bearing change = 1 nm

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah or my mindset is, Every 1 degree of COG heading you are off is one mile you are off your trackline. not a big deal unless you are racing, then it is a HUGE deal on a 200 mile leg.

February 28th, 2003, 11:57	#26
davetheflyer Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: KATL, Georgia, Tennessee Posts: 1,016	Re: Airline Training Academy (ATA) locks its doors... My sympathies are with the ATA students like Marcus. I agree with Chunk also: Get a lawyer and hang onto anything that you have in writing such as contracts, ads, syllabi, whatever. I'd also recommend calling Clark Howard's Consumer Action Center at (404) 892-8227. Clark has a syndicated consumer radio show and his folks can be extremely helpful. You can also check out his website at clarkhoward.com. Good luck.

February 28th, 2003, 12:23	#27
marcusprice Newbie Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Zephyrhills, FL Posts: 12	Re: Airline Training Academy (ATA) locks its doors... Unfortunately we've all been on with lawyers this morning and everyone of them has told us 'tough luck' as we are last in line to get any kind of settlement and the attorne gerneral said pretty much the same thing. Rob Williams is a captain for ATA the airline though so dateline and some other big news shows are going to find out what kind of people ATA hire to fly their planes.

February 28th, 2003, 12:46	#28
darrenf Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Atlantic City, NJ Posts: 3,532	Re: Airline Training Academy (ATA) locks its doors... Here is my tribute to ATA. Don't fly here Make sure your speakers are on.

February 28th, 2003, 12:48	#29
bumflip Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Frisco, TX Posts: 314	Post deleted by Doug Taylor

February 28th, 2003, 12:55	#30
ready2fly Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: DFW Posts: 7,116	Re: Airline Training Academy (ATA) locks its doors... Awww HELL that's funny!! I've left it up and have it playing in the background.

February 28th, 2003, 13:53	#31
marcusprice Newbie Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Zephyrhills, FL Posts: 12	Re: Airline Training Academy (ATA) locks its doors... Just got a call back from ATA the airline after emailing them with a rundown of what their scumbag pilots are up to and they said they're not responsible for what their employees do on their own time. I carbon copied my email to Dateline and bunch of the others so let's see where we can go from here. If anyone out there does manage to get a lawyer willing to take a class action case let me know.

February 28th, 2003, 14:13	#32
bumflip Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Frisco, TX Posts: 314	Post deleted by Doug Taylor

February 28th, 2003, 15:09	#33
RFguy Newbie Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Daytona FL Posts: 1	Re: ATA...your money at work! http://www.floridaair.com/discoverair/da_contact.html Also there were signs of this last year,....see the following link to the Seminole County Clerk of the Court.....do a public record search. http://officialrecords.seminoleclerk.org/ and for Orange County: http://orangeclerk.onetgov.net/restr...lerk/index.htm (login: public password: public) <--use lowercase letters

February 28th, 2003, 18:03	#34
kansaspilot Newbie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: KSLN Salina,Ks Posts: 27	Re: Airline Training Academy (ATA) locks its doors... Yup, someone from marketing called me on the 26th asking if I was still interested in their school.

February 28th, 2003, 18:24	#35
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark Posts: 6,897	Re: Airline Training Academy (ATA) locks its doors... These ab-initio buy-a-job schools are all the same; news story doesn't suprise me. Doug, remember the job market as we were leaving Riddle in the early 1990s? Back when being a Riddle IP was a highly sought-after job? What a joke My diatribe is directed at a culture that I see growing more and more in GA as a whole. Too many times, I see CFIs in the industry that are timebuilding for a better job, which is certainly a great opportunity to climb the ladder, so to speak, and build flight time and experience. I'm all for that. Problem is, many I've seen lack the knowlege of the basics, such as VDP computation and other rules like the 60 to 1, that they then fail to pass down to their students. The reason they don't know in the first place is because they weren't taught by their instructors, etc, etc. And so, critical information and knowlege fails to be taught to a newer generation of pilots, which results in a general "dumbing-down" of the GA population as a whole. Examples of this can be seen (rather heard) on ATC frequencies daily: The confused-sounding pilot that's just not getting what ATC is trying to tell them. And I'm NOT talking about students, that's expected in the learning environment. But I'm talking about CFIs themselves. I overheard a Piper Aztec one day tooling around the Phoenix area practicing approaches to various fields. The guys flying it weren't following ATC instructions properly, and were missing instructions too. Not a few times, mind you, but a good number of times. They pulled into the same FBO that I parked at after landing, and they were 3 CFIs! WTF? Where'd they get their tickets from? They were pretty task saturated on practice approaches in VMC. Hate to see them placed in something a little more challenging. New pilots should try to gain as much knowlege on their own, and when they hear new things, jump right on them and learning the new concepts that you can later file into your proverbial flying bag-of-tricks; the same bag-of-tricks that just may save your bacon someday. Too many CFIs I see aren't really interested in teaching, they're interested in just adding that 1.0 into their logbook. Too many more are "homegrown" and not taught important knowlege that should've been passed down by their IPs that probably didn't know anyway. MD

February 28th, 2003, 19:27	#36
robair73 Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Chi town Posts: 519	Re: Airline Training Academy (ATA) locks its doors... I just learned 60 to 1 today. yeah.

February 28th, 2003, 19:51	#37
pavelump Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 790	Re: Airline Training Academy (ATA) locks its doors... Is that kind of like 25 or 6 to 4 ? Dave

February 28th, 2003, 20:06	#38
chunk75 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: FL Posts: 922	Re: Airline Training Academy (ATA) locks its doors... ...or Take 5... Dah dah dah dit dah bomp bomp bah

February 28th, 2003, 20:35	#39
jdflight Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Boulder, CO (anywhere but Fresno) Posts: 1,477	Re: Airline Training Academy (ATA) locks its doors... Despite the embarrassment of asking so close to my instrument ride, I'll bite. What's VDP and 60 to 1?

February 28th, 2003, 20:43	#40
pavelump Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 790	Re: Airline Training Academy (ATA) locks its doors... not to get too far off the subject, but when I clicked on this thread, it had 666 views. freaky. i should go to bed now.

February 28th, 2003, 20:50	#41
cimepilot Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 231	Re: Airline Training Academy (ATA) locks its doors... Sorry to hear about all the ATA guys/girls that lost out. I drove up to ATA this morning and saw all the news trcuks and police cars parked outside only to find out what had happened. Around 5PM tonight I walked into the flight school next to ATA where I am working on my CFI-I to find several ATA students and instructors having a meeting. If any ATA people attended that meeting, what was said? Will that school (no metion of names) be helping ya'll out? I hate to make this plug, but anyone from ATA or in Orlando looking for a CFI, send me a PM. I may be able to help you out. Again, I feel really bad for all who attended ATA and lost out. I hope everything works out for the best. Go get those crooks!

February 28th, 2003, 20:58	#42
PurduePilot Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Sherborn, Massachusetts USA Posts: 1,309	Re: Airline Training Academy (ATA) locks its doors... A VDP is a visual descent point.

February 28th, 2003, 21:02	#43
chunk75 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: FL Posts: 922	Re: Airline Training Academy (ATA) locks its doors... Generally used for faster, heavier aircraft that use VNAV (Vertical nav mode a/p). It's the MAP for those using VNAV to give them time to go missed. Jets don't like to truck it in at MDA for 5 miles...

March 1st, 2003, 06:02	#44
mfloyd Junior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: NW Indiana Posts: 50	Re: Airline Training Academy (ATA) locks its doors... 60 - 1 rule For every 60 miles out from facility, 1 degree of bearing change = 1 nm Mark

March 1st, 2003, 06:10	#45
EDUC8-or Old Skool Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: NC Posts: 2,177	Re: Airline Training Academy (ATA) locks its doors... I just saw a piece about this on the local news channel. The assistant chief pilot said "They (the owners) were great people and they tried to do anything for their students and pull out all of the stops to keep this place open." That's why they want all of your $ up front and they were trying to take money until the doors closed. Sound like real nice people to me!

March 1st, 2003, 10:04	#46
Eagle Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 1,272	Re: Airline Training Academy (ATA) locks its doors... [ QUOTE ] 60 - 1 rule For every 60 miles out from facility, 1 degree of bearing change = 1 nm [/ QUOTE ] Yeah or my mindset is, Every 1 degree of COG heading you are off is one mile you are off your trackline. not a big deal unless you are racing, then it is a HUGE deal on a 200 mile leg.

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