What happened at O'hare?

[BCTAv8r]

Allright, nevermind. I thought it made sense yesterday from a passenger's point of view.

To change the subject a bit, my flight from YYZ-ORD was the first 737 flight I've ever taken. From what I've heard, the 733 is supposed to be more shaky than the A320. Not in this flight though. I'm very impressed with the airplane and the crew.

[CaptainMatt]

Originally Posted by Goldmember

To get back to the question of the post, a phone crew working in the area cut a feed so the tower at O'hare couldn't contact approach at Elgin. ATC backup systems kicked in but for safety procedures, ATC separated approaching aircraft an extra five miles which of course, causes mad delays. This has been all over CLTV so you must consider the source when reading this...cheers.

Look at what happened today. 15 mile separation around New York airports due to Radar Failure... http://www.wnbc.com/news/7783675/detail.html

[Kristie]

Originally Posted by BCTAv8r

Paying for my hotel is not what's gonna cause pilots to take another paycut. Management taking huge bonuses will.

wrong...and right...paying for your hotel will cause the airline to lose money - hands down...mgmt taking huge bonuses will cause the airline to lose money - hands down...

the thing is take your hotel cost and multiply it by 120 (assuming that's how many folks are on the plane) cuz heck knows you are not hte *only* person/family on that plane!

The airline isn't responsible for weather conditions, ATC problems etc...now, if something happens, they put you on the next available flight.. and bump others off of that flight and put them on the next available flight...until everyone gets to their destination.

the fact that you and your family choose to be on a flight that took the last possible connection to PBI is your families fault.. should have planned ahead *just in case*. now you know better...that's just how it works.

similar to if you book your connection flights too close timewise - if you miss it by 15 minutes, that's still your fault..not the airlines.

[Kristie]

Originally Posted by BCTAv8r

But after the crew told us that everything had slowed down at ORD and that the connections were re-scheduled, they even went as far as giving us flight numbers and gets for each connection, but when we got there the flight had left a while earlier.

Perhaps the gate agent was right and the flight crew had no clue what they were talking about? ?

the flight crew receives directions thru the computer...apparently they weren't updated before the flight landed. it's not the crew's fault they didn't get updated in time. it's the dispatchers fault on that one.

plus, you should never *really* trust the data the crew gives during the flight - as far as gates go - because they often change by the time you get on the ground anyways.. that's why you want to check the computers when you get off the plane.. confirm for your own validation.

[BCTAv8r]

There was our flight to PBI and then another flight. We took a long time to to get to ORD so both our flight and the next were gone.

And we bought a vacation package so it wasn't an option anyways.


Thanks for the replies though. I just wanted some in-depth info on what happened.

[launchpad]

Originally Posted by BCTAv8r

Also, I am not complaining that we sat on the ground for 2 hours. I am grateful we were on the ground and not in the air. But after the crew told us that everything had slowed down at ORD and that the connections were re-scheduled, they even went as far as giving us flight numbers and gets for each connection, but when we got there the flight had left a while earlier.

Perhaps the gate agent was right and the flight crew had no clue what they were talking about? ?

If you ever work for an airline, you'll quickly learn about the disconnection between what the flight crew knows, what the ramp crew knows, what the gate crew knows, and what the company knows. For example, today I flew a flight with 26 people booked on it. We had 22 on the aircraft (no big deal, people don't show up all the time). The paper work we got from the ramp agent said 20. The flight attendant counted 22. The gate agent told the ramp guy there should be 21. Operations had no clue what was going on . This seemingly trivial numbers snafu caused a 15 minute delay while we got everything straightened out.

The logistics of running an airline and making everything work smoothly is an extremely mind-boggling thing. Sometimes s**t happens. Believe me when I say that in all likelyhood, no one in the plane or at the airport was out to screw you. It just happens that the flight crew may have gotten word from dispatch about the re-scheduling of the connections, and no one at dispatch actually told the people at ORD about it.

And for the record....the airline cannot and should not be responsible for events that are out of their control. It leads to safety decisions being made by economics, and not common sense......not a good situation. I'd eat the cost of that hotel room rather than having that flight crew put you and your family at risk over 60 bucks.

[Tim]

From a customer service agent the rules are simple. If its a natural cause (weather) its not the airlines deal to pay your meals..if they do its a pure courtesy. They are only responsible if there is a mechanical (there fault). You may not like it but thats they way it is right or wrong.

[FlyChicaga]

Just curious Brian, but if there was another 9/11 and the US airspace system was shut down for three days stranding thousands of passengers, do you think the airlines should pay for hotel accomodations and food vouchers? Seems like the same type of thing, missed connections and cancelled flights due to something that effects the airspace system completely out of the airlines control.

By the way, airlines don't like delays any more than passengers do. Delays and missed connections cost major dollars to an airline.

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by launchpad

If you ever work for an airline, you'll quickly learn about the disconnection between what the flight crew knows, what the ramp

Ding ding ding ding!

If I had a dollar for every time:

- A flight attendant asks, "So how long is the maintenance delay?" when I didn't know about any mechanical problems.

- A passenger asks, "So are you guys going to bus us from Twin Falls to Boise?" "We're going to Boise" "No, you're going to Twin Falls because the weather is bad" "News to me!"

Heck, we're on a re-route tomorrow, the captain gets to go home six hours earlier and instead of flying a DEN turn, I'm flying an OAK turn and I have no idea why. The maing says fly to OAK and back, so I fly to OAK and back, no questions asked! Mechanical? Crew availability? Impending snow storm? Who knows.

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by FlyChicaga

By the way, airlines don't like delays any more than passengers do. Delays and missed connections cost major dollars to an airline.

Delays mean crew rest problems, calling in reserves IF you have reserves available, hotel transportation problems, COMAT and freight problems, etc. Commuting pilots coming to work are delayed which snowballs the problem bigger and bigger...

Delays are a killer to operations.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

When I was flying PHX-SAN-LAS for NJC we were on a hour ground hold in the penalty box in PHX for weather in SAN. I love this..Several pax were getting angry and it looked like a riot was about to break out. They kept looking out the windows pointing and talking loudly to themselves saying. "What are they talking about there is no bad weather look it is a blue cloudless day."

Not sure if this is at all relevent to the conversation but pax stupidity/reasoning is madding/hilarious and insane all rolled up into one.

[Tim]

Well airline employees know that most passengers dont have clue except they want a seat, their bags, and to depart and land. You will never make one understand that just because its great here in ATL that the weather isnt sucking big time in BOS.

[adreamer]

Brian, if you have bump into the following story you might get hotel room.

Due to work condition, I fly between work and home at least once a month. This particular flight had been delay at DTW due to mechanical problem for about an hour. Most of passengers on this flight had connection flights out of DTW. Therefore, gate agents asked us to stay around the gate area and be ready to board. Ground / Ramp crews were ready for this particular flight.

It was totally amazing to see about 180 people deplane, boarding and baggages loaded within 20 minutes or less. Crews flew the plane as fast as they can. During the flight, a lady who sat next to me that were on the same connecting flight as I was. Flight landed at DTW early then expected. However, we could not get in because gate is occupied. Once gradma(78 years old) and I deplaned, I asked grandma run to gate first. I will take care of her and my bags right behind her. Well, new NWA terminal and regional gates at DTW are about a miles apart. We ran as fast as we could (we had about 8 or less minutes). Finally, grandma had to stop. I promised her I would try to stop the plane anyway I can. When I got to gate, flight was already boarded, but still connected with jetway. The lady and I stood there for good old 5 minutes before plane being push back. I spent a night at hotel by using airline vouchers.

Just wondering why airlines can't hold the plane especially last flilght of the day to particular city? Beside on time record.



adreamer

[Bog]

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

When I was flying PHX-SAN-LAS for NJC we were on a hour ground hold in the penalty box in PHX for weather in SAN. I love this..Several pax were getting angry and it looked like a riot was about to break out. They kept looking out the windows pointing and talking loudly to themselves saying. "What are they talking about there is no bad weather look it is a blue cloudless day."

1) Why did you fly from PHX to LAS ... via SAN?

2) Yes, people make comments like that all the time. You'll also hear "I just got off the phone with my insert name of acquaintance here and he/she/it said that the sun is shining, birds are singing, and there's no reason why you can't go.

[Chris_Ford]

Originally Posted by Bog

1) Why did you fly from PHX to LAS ... via SAN?

More importantly, when the hell has there ever been bad weather in SAN?

[Bog]

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

More importantly, when the hell has there ever been bad weather in SAN?

Quite often. A low marine layer with winds from the West means you aren't getting in. It's very common.

[Chris_Ford]

Originally Posted by Bog

Quite often. A low marine layer with winds from the West means you aren't getting in. It's very common.

I thought the marine layer was like 1000 feet up, is it more of a surface fog?

[launchpad]

Originally Posted by Bog

Quite often. A low marine layer with winds from the West means you aren't getting in. It's very common.

only if you're a panzy.....

seriously though...walking through the terminal yesterday, some guy asks me if I'm flying to so-and-so, and I say yes. He asks me how long the delay is....I had no idea there was a delay........livin the dream......I'm just a lemming...don't ask me any question...i do what i'm told....

[SeanD]

Adreamer, Delta held a fully loaded 767-400 from ATL to LAS for me for about 15 min. My flight was delayed by 2 in ORF ( not sure why ) I was certain I was going to be camping out in ATL, this was their last one of the evening to LAS. I even made calls to friends at home telling them I wouldnt be home that night. Flight leaves ORF, the ticket agent felt horrible that I wasnt going to make my connection in ATL and put me in 1st class for the 1 hour flight on the MD-88, sweet . We arrived and de-planed and I walked to check if that flight had left to LAS assuming It had already. It was still at the gate! I hauled ass down the 20 mile long ATL terminal A saw the gate agents and they were yelling " Hurry Sean, we have been waiting for you!" I was like WTF, how do they know my name? I remember I am a Delta Sky Miles member and had over 13,000 miles on my FF card. Im not sure if that had something to do with it but all in all I was very greatful to Delta. However the 200+ pax on that flight were not happy to see me at all. I took my walk of shame all the way back to seat 42A. That felt like a punishment all in its own but going back to the original topic. I still never knew why I was delayed in ORF but I did know what caused the delay in ATL.

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Originally Posted by Kristie

similar to if you book your connection flights too close timewise - if you miss it by 15 minutes, that's still your fault..not the airlines.

I didnt think they would allow you to book a connection with some min amount of time? I use to book my STL-CVG-CAK returns on Friday's and run to the gate in CVG (okay dont laugh too loud for those who know me, and my size!) and most time I would get there for the flight before my scheduled and get home early. If not, time to get the starbucks and sit it out.

[Bog]

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

I thought the marine layer was like 1000 feet up, is it more of a surface fog?

The problem with SAN is that the LOC 27 has an MDA of 660', so with a 500' overcast / marine layer, you're not getting in from that side. Even the ILS 9 only gets you down to 350', thanks to the hills restricting the missed approach.

In the afternoon, the other problem is the haze / smog. If you're trying to land on 27 with 3-5 miles of visibility, you might not catch the runway in time to nose-over and make the it.

In the meantime, all the pax who live 2 miles inland are talking to their loved ones in SAN who just cannot understand why the flight is being delayed because it's clear at their house.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by Bog

1) Why did you fly from PHX to LAS ... via SAN?

2) Yes, people make comments like that all the time. You'll also hear "I just got off the phone with my insert name of acquaintance here and he/she/it said that the sun is shining, birds are singing, and there's no reason why you can't go.

I missed my original flight from PHX-LAS. So they rerouted me through SAN!

Originally Posted by Bog

Quite often. A low marine layer with winds from the West means you aren't getting in. It's very common.

..Exactly!

[Bog]

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

I missed my original flight from PHX-LAS. So they rerouted me through SAN!

That absolutely sucks. Don't know why they do things like that.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by Bog

That absolutely sucks. Don't know why they do things like that.

Well it was my fault for waking up late then taking my sweet time getting to the airport. About the re-route. I was flying SWA on a Friday even though they have flights leaving PHX-LAS every hour on the hour each flight departing PHX was either sold out or overbooked from Fri-Sat.

The standby list was even more of a joke one gate had 100 standby's at 3pm. SAN had a connection to Vegas and no standby's all in all it wasn't bad. But we had 30-45 minute sit in SAN as well because we missed block time for departure and ATC had to find a space for us. It was pretty much of the samething in PHX only worse cause those people were just itchin to gamble!