Commercial long cross country question (again)

[jtrain609]

Heya everyone,


So we discussed whether your long cross country for your commercial requirements has to be solo; but does it have to be done in VFR conditions. I'm looking at the regs and I'm seeing nothing about it, but I thought I remembered my instructor saying something to me that it can't be done IFR (or at least in IMC). Knowing me I remember it incorrectly. Can anyone else elaborate on this one and if they think it does have to be done VFR point me to the reg that says so?

Cheers


John Herreshoff

[pilot602]

I had this come up before my second IA checkride attempt - I had done one under the hood (and on an IFR flight plan) and though the FARs say nothing explicitly about under the hood under a VFR flight plan the chief pilot, and my (new) instructor both agreed it couldn't be done on the IFR plan. Technically under the hood is still VFR (safety pilot etc.) what sank me was the IFR flight plan. I think this one will really depend on the DE and his/her interpretation of the rule - call 'em up and ask. If you haven't done it yet just do it VFR.

[Fearless]

John,

There is NO requirement that the "long" cross-country be done in VFR conditions or under visual flight rules. If you're instrument rated and current, then you may file IFR and do the whole thing in IMC. In fact, it's a great way to get some additional experience in the IFR system.

Your flight school or FBO may have some additional rules regarding instrument flight in their rental aircraft, but that's their requirement, not the FAA's.

FFFI
(CFI, CFII, MEI)

[jtrain609]

heh, I can see this post the same route as the question about solo time.

I think both of you guys are right here in that you should be able to do it but it could depend on the DE; I'll call up the DE here in a few days and ask him about it.

I guess the new question is where is this interpertation that you can't be on an IFR flight plan come from? I look at the regs and see nothing about it, but some people are obviously of the opinion that you can't do it IFR. Any ideas on where the idea that supports that comes from?


Thanks for the input

Cheers


John Herreshoff

[braidkid]

John,
Unless you do the long xcountry in IMC what difference does it make if you file IFR or VFR?
I know this may go against Socrates way of thinking but what is not mentioned in the remarks
section of your log book wont hurt ya!!!
And to answer your question, there is NO mention of the trip having to be VFR so your good to
go either way!!!

cheers!!!

[Alchemy]

Dunno if you're required to do it VFR but I think most CFI's have you do it VFR, using pilotage and dead reckoning because that's what the DE will ask to see on the 'ride.

[flyitup]

[ QUOTE ]
I know this may go against Socrates way of thinking but what is not mentioned in the remarks
section of your log book wont hurt ya!!!


[/ QUOTE ]

[drumminpilot]

For the two short X/C's, day and night, it specifies VFR, but it does not specify anything other than distance and stops for the long X/C. That would lead me to think that it does not have to be VFR.

[bluelake]

Pilot,

Your reply has me a bit confused... the question was I thought about the long commercial cross country SOLO, and you responded about being under the hood, which i imagine was dual?

Anyways, when I did my commercial I had all the same questions, and it seemed at the flight school CFI's each had their own impression of what was what. So I turned to the FARS and found that in this case its really quite straightforward. It boils down to a DUAL day VFR XC, a DUAL night VFR XC, and the long solo XC, and the FAR's do not further specify how that long XC has to be done beyond the distance and SOLO (dog is ok reqs.

DeanR

[Brandon]

I filed IFR for my long x-c, but I did it entirely in VMC, no actual was logged, and I didn't put in the remarks or anything that it was filed under IFR. Unless you log actual there is really no way for the DE to tell if you did it under IFR or VFR.

[pilot602]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess the new question is where is this interpertation that you can't be on an IFR flight plan come from?

[/ QUOTE ]

OK I think I might have cause more confusion then I attempted to clear.

I'm doing my IA/CP in a twin. The requirements for the multi-engine, commercial long XC (and the 5 hours of night ops) can be done either solo or as PIC with an instructor on board.

I agree that nothing in the regs say it can't be done on an IFR flgiht plan and I also agree that it can be done under the hood (in a multi only). Now, if you were trying to turn in a simulated instrument XC in a single you'd be hosed because you'd have to have a safety pilot on board which then invalidates your solo requirement - but in a multi all bets are off in my book.

It was only my CFII who wasn't sure of the rule who then consulted with the chief pilot (the guy who gave me my multi add-on) who also then said it couldn't be under the hood. I could have argued it, and taken my chances, but I was only 10 days away from my second try (after a postponement) at the IA checkride and I was just playing it safe by doing the XC again. In the end it didn't matter because literally two days after that last flight (the XC) the aircraft went in for what was supposed to be a quick AD check and has yet to come out! So, I ended up missing the ride, again.