My next toy

E_Dawg · February 15th, 2003, 14:09

Hey guys and gals;

after I get my instrument rating (inside of two months hopefully) I'm considering getting a cheap handheld GPS that I can use as a situational awareness aid when I go blundering into IMC. I was just wondering if anyone had opinions on the low end of the market... thanks everyone

I'm not too worried about the airspace I'm in or the altitude in centimeters; just something that can give me a pretty good idea of where to go in an emergency

I_Money · February 15th, 2003, 14:33

LOL, Ed and his toys, the digital camera is coming soon, no guy can play with something so much in the store and not buy one!

E_Dawg · February 15th, 2003, 15:38

Iain; I am not getting a digicam; I think before I spend, and most of it ends up in the aviation basket at the end of the day!!!

I_Money · February 15th, 2003, 16:06

OK, I just think you will probably pick one up in the next year or so.

Anyways back to the question, I say go to Ebay and look there!

flyitup · February 15th, 2003, 16:54

Ed,

While it is a little pricey, I decided to go with the Garmin 196 primarily because it also has road and water navigation features. Like Iain said, I would just do a search on eBay for a cheaper version…

Good luck!

Ophir · February 15th, 2003, 22:31

Get the 196, it is amazing!!!

flyitup · February 15th, 2003, 22:42

Ophir,

Do you use yours for road nav as well?

Since I haven’t purchased the additional “road map” software, it only has the major interstates and such. I think buying that will be my next splurge! It sure has been great for aviation though!

drumminpilot · February 16th, 2003, 01:18

Hey Ed, after reading in Flying (I think?) about one of their writers getting a 100 dollar GPS from Wal-Mart, I decided to go check them out. I ended up buying the Garmin e-trex Legend for around 250 bucks. It's got all the bells and whistles, plus moving map, and it's the size of my cell phone (Nokia 3300), so it fits in my pocket. The map is very detailed, so in an emergency it'll help out pretty well. It's waterproof, and freakin amazing. I highly recommend it. I've shot NDB apps off of it (VMC of course!) and it worked perfectly. It runs off of 2 AA batteries that last from 18-20 hours continuous. That is the best 250 bucks I've ever spent!

Ophir · February 16th, 2003, 07:58

I have been trying to upload Map Source off a buddy's computer but to no avail. I have really only been using it for aviation. On the other hand, It seems like i am never going anywhere I don't know the route, with the exception of being in the airplane.

I would like the topo features of Map Source though.

I have rationalized that the 196 will pay for itself in time due to the ability to get me to places directly and quickly. I have been flying a /A 1969 C182 and I have loved having the moving map on the 196.

FlyChicaga · February 16th, 2003, 14:50

Wow, see now THAT is what I'm missing! I have a desktop computer, laptop, PDA, cell phone, digital camera, etc., but no GPS! Dangit!!!

flyitup · February 16th, 2003, 18:40

Ophir,

Have you had trouble with the yoke mounting device for the 196? I can’t seem to find a suitable place to mount the thing in the cockpit, so I just set it on the dash and glance at it when I need to. Since I fly a different airplane every time, this method also enables me to get better satellite reception without using the auxiliary antenna. It would be nice to be able to formerly mount it though… Any ideas?

Ophir · February 16th, 2003, 21:57

i have been having to remove the approach plate clip that is installed in all these new 172's I have been flying in order to get the thing to mount on the yoke. The older 182 I was flying didn't a clip on it. And. 182's have a substantially beefier yoke bar so the clip works quite well with them.

A buddy of mine has the Garmin dash mount that has a clip on it (essentially it is a bean-bag). That seemed to be pretty nice considering every plane I have been in has a dash!

Mavmb · February 16th, 2003, 22:47

Are you planning to fly solo IFR in general aviation aircraft Ed? That can be dangerous. I'm not saying it can't be done; but it requires a lot of concentration if you have to shoot an approach or climb and descend frequently. A GPS is definitely a good idea if you're going to be flying through the soup. You may want to buy a handheld nav/com radio too. Fly safe and be careful in the clouds!

av8sean · February 16th, 2003, 23:02

I disagree, a competent instrument pilot should be able to safely pilot a general aviation airplane without an autopilot-- or GPS for that matter in IFR conditions.

flyitup · February 16th, 2003, 23:07

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree, a competent instrument pilot should be able to safely pilot a general aviation airplane without an autopilot-- or GPS for that matter in IFR conditions.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sean,

I don't think mav's intention was to imply that it was "necessary" for a flight in IMC, just a good thing to have.

I also firmly believe that one should be competent without the use of a GPS in both VMC and IMC. However, after achieving that level of competency, then why not take advantage of the added safety a GPS unit offers?

E_Dawg · February 16th, 2003, 23:30

[ QUOTE ]
Are you planning to fly solo IFR in general aviation aircraft Ed? That can be dangerous. I'm not saying it can't be done; but it requires a lot of concentration if you have to shoot an approach or climb and descend frequently. A GPS is definitely a good idea if you're going to be flying through the soup. You may want to buy a handheld nav/com radio too. Fly safe and be careful in the clouds!

[/ QUOTE ]

mavmb1, thanks for the heads up. Yes, I do intend to acutally use my rating after I get it (

); but I am also well aware of the challenges which is why I am doing virtually all of my IFR training either in actual IMC (which we RARELY have lately) or simulated at night. I have a NAV/COM transciever and would definately like a dependable GPS for terrain and situational awareness (as a supplement to my primary means of navagation of course).

As for the recommendations thanks, as always. So the 196 is a great GPS... I'll have to stop my daily 7-11 visits for nearly a year to save up for that thing

(maybe I will; maybe I won't; addictions die hard). Any more recommendations? How 'bout a GPS Pilot III?

E_Dawg · February 16th, 2003, 23:46

Oh and drummingpilot that sounds like a good deal; I think I have seen that at a camping store, but I thought it was more for ground navigation (for backpackers and campers) than flying. Once you get the GPS how do you load the maps on it?

And you 196ers how long do your batteries last?

flyitup · February 16th, 2003, 23:51

[ QUOTE ]
And you 196ers how long do your batteries last?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not real sure. I just monitor the battery indicator, and I haven't really kept track of the hours I've actually used the unit. There are also variables to consider like the intensity of the backlighting for example...

drumminpilot · February 16th, 2003, 23:53

[ QUOTE ]
I thought it was more for ground navigation (for backpackers and campers) than flying. Once you get the GPS how do you load the maps on it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Ed, it actually has all the airports in the database. Just location, not like runways and stuff. It has a base map of the entire US, but you can get extremely detailed maps off of the MapSource CD you run to the GPS from your PC. As for Navaids, I used the coordinates and plugged them in manually. Worked great though. You can also buy a clip mount, that works great for a yoke, or I also use it for when I go mtn. biking or 4 wheeling.

E_Dawg · February 16th, 2003, 23:58

holy s@&$ those replys were fast!

I'll probably head over to el cheapo wall mart tomorrow and see what they have. I'll also look into that 196 but it's probably out of my budget for now!

flyitup · February 17th, 2003, 00:01

Alright..

To answer your previous question with a little more accuracy, I just found these figures on Garmin's website...

-Up to 16 hours with no backlighting

-Up to 4 hours with full backlighting

drumminpilot · February 17th, 2003, 00:01

[ QUOTE ]
holy s@&$ those replys were fast!

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't actually think there's more to do in Arkansas than surf the internet do you?

flyitup · February 17th, 2003, 00:02

[ QUOTE ]
You don't actually think there's more to do in Arkansas than surf the internet do you?

[/ QUOTE ]

No kidding... The same holds true for Tulsa..

Shouldn't I be doing my homework??

Oh well...

E_Dawg · February 17th, 2003, 00:08

Arkansas? What's that?

drumminpilot · February 17th, 2003, 00:09

[ QUOTE ]
Shouldn't I be doing my homework??

[/ QUOTE ]

By homework, I think they really meant "Do it in class-work"

haha

February 15th, 2003, 14:09	#1
E_Dawg Moderator Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: chicago Posts: 4,147	My next toy Hey guys and gals; after I get my instrument rating (inside of two months hopefully) I'm considering getting a cheap handheld GPS that I can use as a situational awareness aid when I go blundering into IMC. I was just wondering if anyone had opinions on the low end of the market... thanks everyone I'm not too worried about the airspace I'm in or the altitude in centimeters; just something that can give me a pretty good idea of where to go in an emergency

February 15th, 2003, 14:33	#2
I_Money Moderator Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Socal Posts: 5,645	Re: My next toy LOL, Ed and his toys, the digital camera is coming soon, no guy can play with something so much in the store and not buy one!

February 15th, 2003, 15:38	#3
E_Dawg Moderator Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: chicago Posts: 4,147	Re: My next toy Iain; I am not getting a digicam; I think before I spend, and most of it ends up in the aviation basket at the end of the day!!!

February 15th, 2003, 16:06	#4
I_Money Moderator Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Socal Posts: 5,645	Re: My next toy OK, I just think you will probably pick one up in the next year or so. Anyways back to the question, I say go to Ebay and look there!

February 15th, 2003, 16:54	#5
flyitup Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 620	Re: My next toy Ed, While it is a little pricey, I decided to go with the Garmin 196 primarily because it also has road and water navigation features. Like Iain said, I would just do a search on eBay for a cheaper version… Good luck!

February 15th, 2003, 22:31	#6
Ophir Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: was Ophir, CO, now in SLC! Posts: 1,477	Re: My next toy Get the 196, it is amazing!!!

February 15th, 2003, 22:42	#7
flyitup Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 620	Re: My next toy Ophir, Do you use yours for road nav as well? Since I haven’t purchased the additional “road map” software, it only has the major interstates and such. I think buying that will be my next splurge! It sure has been great for aviation though!

February 16th, 2003, 01:18	#8
drumminpilot Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Springdale, AR (XNA/RVS/ASG) Posts: 320	Re: My next toy Hey Ed, after reading in Flying (I think?) about one of their writers getting a 100 dollar GPS from Wal-Mart, I decided to go check them out. I ended up buying the Garmin e-trex Legend for around 250 bucks. It's got all the bells and whistles, plus moving map, and it's the size of my cell phone (Nokia 3300), so it fits in my pocket. The map is very detailed, so in an emergency it'll help out pretty well. It's waterproof, and freakin amazing. I highly recommend it. I've shot NDB apps off of it (VMC of course!) and it worked perfectly. It runs off of 2 AA batteries that last from 18-20 hours continuous. That is the best 250 bucks I've ever spent!

February 16th, 2003, 07:58	#9
Ophir Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: was Ophir, CO, now in SLC! Posts: 1,477	Re: My next toy I have been trying to upload Map Source off a buddy's computer but to no avail. I have really only been using it for aviation. On the other hand, It seems like i am never going anywhere I don't know the route, with the exception of being in the airplane. I would like the topo features of Map Source though. I have rationalized that the 196 will pay for itself in time due to the ability to get me to places directly and quickly. I have been flying a /A 1969 C182 and I have loved having the moving map on the 196.

February 16th, 2003, 14:50	#10
FlyChicaga Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 4,750	Re: My next toy Wow, see now THAT is what I'm missing! I have a desktop computer, laptop, PDA, cell phone, digital camera, etc., but no GPS! Dangit!!!

February 16th, 2003, 18:40	#11
flyitup Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 620	Re: My next toy Ophir, Have you had trouble with the yoke mounting device for the 196? I can’t seem to find a suitable place to mount the thing in the cockpit, so I just set it on the dash and glance at it when I need to. Since I fly a different airplane every time, this method also enables me to get better satellite reception without using the auxiliary antenna. It would be nice to be able to formerly mount it though… Any ideas?

February 16th, 2003, 21:57	#12
Ophir Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: was Ophir, CO, now in SLC! Posts: 1,477	Re: My next toy i have been having to remove the approach plate clip that is installed in all these new 172's I have been flying in order to get the thing to mount on the yoke. The older 182 I was flying didn't a clip on it. And. 182's have a substantially beefier yoke bar so the clip works quite well with them. A buddy of mine has the Garmin dash mount that has a clip on it (essentially it is a bean-bag). That seemed to be pretty nice considering every plane I have been in has a dash!

February 16th, 2003, 22:47	#13
Mavmb Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 2,169	Re: My next toy Are you planning to fly solo IFR in general aviation aircraft Ed? That can be dangerous. I'm not saying it can't be done; but it requires a lot of concentration if you have to shoot an approach or climb and descend frequently. A GPS is definitely a good idea if you're going to be flying through the soup. You may want to buy a handheld nav/com radio too. Fly safe and be careful in the clouds!

February 16th, 2003, 23:02	#14
av8sean Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Toronto/DTW Posts: 479	Re: My next toy I disagree, a competent instrument pilot should be able to safely pilot a general aviation airplane without an autopilot-- or GPS for that matter in IFR conditions.

February 16th, 2003, 23:07	#15
flyitup Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 620	Re: My next toy [ QUOTE ] I disagree, a competent instrument pilot should be able to safely pilot a general aviation airplane without an autopilot-- or GPS for that matter in IFR conditions. [/ QUOTE ] Sean, I don't think mav's intention was to imply that it was "necessary" for a flight in IMC, just a good thing to have. I also firmly believe that one should be competent without the use of a GPS in both VMC and IMC. However, after achieving that level of competency, then why not take advantage of the added safety a GPS unit offers?

February 16th, 2003, 23:30	#16
E_Dawg Moderator Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: chicago Posts: 4,147	Re: My next toy [ QUOTE ] Are you planning to fly solo IFR in general aviation aircraft Ed? That can be dangerous. I'm not saying it can't be done; but it requires a lot of concentration if you have to shoot an approach or climb and descend frequently. A GPS is definitely a good idea if you're going to be flying through the soup. You may want to buy a handheld nav/com radio too. Fly safe and be careful in the clouds! [/ QUOTE ] mavmb1, thanks for the heads up. Yes, I do intend to acutally use my rating after I get it ( ); but I am also well aware of the challenges which is why I am doing virtually all of my IFR training either in actual IMC (which we RARELY have lately) or simulated at night. I have a NAV/COM transciever and would definately like a dependable GPS for terrain and situational awareness (as a supplement to my primary means of navagation of course). As for the recommendations thanks, as always. So the 196 is a great GPS... I'll have to stop my daily 7-11 visits for nearly a year to save up for that thing (maybe I will; maybe I won't; addictions die hard). Any more recommendations? How 'bout a GPS Pilot III?

February 16th, 2003, 23:46	#17
E_Dawg Moderator Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: chicago Posts: 4,147	Re: My next toy Oh and drummingpilot that sounds like a good deal; I think I have seen that at a camping store, but I thought it was more for ground navigation (for backpackers and campers) than flying. Once you get the GPS how do you load the maps on it? And you 196ers how long do your batteries last?

February 16th, 2003, 23:51	#18
flyitup Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 620	Re: My next toy [ QUOTE ] And you 196ers how long do your batteries last? [/ QUOTE ] I'm not real sure. I just monitor the battery indicator, and I haven't really kept track of the hours I've actually used the unit. There are also variables to consider like the intensity of the backlighting for example...

February 16th, 2003, 23:53	#19
drumminpilot Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Springdale, AR (XNA/RVS/ASG) Posts: 320	Re: My next toy [ QUOTE ] I thought it was more for ground navigation (for backpackers and campers) than flying. Once you get the GPS how do you load the maps on it? [/ QUOTE ] Hey Ed, it actually has all the airports in the database. Just location, not like runways and stuff. It has a base map of the entire US, but you can get extremely detailed maps off of the MapSource CD you run to the GPS from your PC. As for Navaids, I used the coordinates and plugged them in manually. Worked great though. You can also buy a clip mount, that works great for a yoke, or I also use it for when I go mtn. biking or 4 wheeling.

February 16th, 2003, 23:58	#20
E_Dawg Moderator Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: chicago Posts: 4,147	Re: My next toy holy s@&$ those replys were fast! I'll probably head over to el cheapo wall mart tomorrow and see what they have. I'll also look into that 196 but it's probably out of my budget for now!

February 17th, 2003, 00:01	#21
flyitup Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 620	Re: My next toy Alright.. To answer your previous question with a little more accuracy, I just found these figures on Garmin's website... -Up to 16 hours with no backlighting -Up to 4 hours with full backlighting

February 17th, 2003, 00:01	#22
drumminpilot Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Springdale, AR (XNA/RVS/ASG) Posts: 320	Re: My next toy [ QUOTE ] holy s@&$ those replys were fast! [/ QUOTE ] You don't actually think there's more to do in Arkansas than surf the internet do you?

February 17th, 2003, 00:02	#23
flyitup Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 620	Re: My next toy [ QUOTE ] You don't actually think there's more to do in Arkansas than surf the internet do you? [/ QUOTE ] No kidding... The same holds true for Tulsa.. Shouldn't I be doing my homework?? Oh well...

February 17th, 2003, 00:08	#24
E_Dawg Moderator Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: chicago Posts: 4,147	Re: My next toy Arkansas? What's that?

February 17th, 2003, 00:09	#25
drumminpilot Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Springdale, AR (XNA/RVS/ASG) Posts: 320	Re: My next toy [ QUOTE ] Shouldn't I be doing my homework?? [/ QUOTE ] By homework, I think they really meant "Do it in class-work" haha

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