Delta Pilot in ORF was not Drunk!

A320_DUDE · February 12th, 2003, 22:19

Score 1 for the pilots....0 for the TSA goons: Pilot Sober

Doug, Since this guy is in the clear,will he be allowed back on the line? I figure if the company doesn't reinstate him PDQ,DALPA will be all over them!

Doug Taylor · February 12th, 2003, 22:31

If I was the captain, I'd sue the ass off to Fox News for reporting my full name, employee number and all of the secret door codes for about 15 different airports on the live news, in full view of al Quada.

I'd also file a lawsuit against the TSA because they're out of control.

I got a "sniff test" today in Kansas City where the TSA picked up my hat with my wifes picture in it nearly pulling it out of my hand, walked forward and about 5 inches from my face asked, "So, you two out late last night starting trouble?", snickered and said something else which I barely heard and decided to ignore.

Meanwhile, yesterday, I flew BIL-SLC-SMF-SLC-MCI, got in about 11:45pm, called Kristie, went straight to bed, got up and headed to the airport for a 11:55am pushback.

Beware, they're absolutely out to find someone to make the news. Thank god he didn't take it upon himself to deem me a security threat after I rolled my eyes, didn't answer and walked away quietly.

Because once the TSA deems you a threat, they have the ability to revoke your pilots license without any due process.

A320_DUDE · February 12th, 2003, 22:59

[ QUOTE ]
Thank god he didn't take it upon himself to deem me a security threat after I rolled my eyes, didn't answer and walked away quietly.

Because once the TSA deems you a threat, they have the ability to revoke your pilots license without any due process.

[/ QUOTE ]

In that case maybe I should stop being rude to them..........nah I don't think so! I'm sick of them making comments toward the ground and inflight crews. I almost had to restrain a pilot yesterday from ripping the face off one of the screeners......thank god he thought my little joke about "not having bail money" got him calmed down. The TSA manager sent our station manager a report because I went off on his "last line of defense" because after they pissed of another crew, I told them "If the pilots really wanted to do bring down an airplane,they would just push forward on the stick".....only it included a couple other choice words. My station manager showed me the report....then shredded it. I'm all for security (real security,not the rent-a-goons we have now) but dumping out a pilots flight kit and making snotty comments on his lunch is not security!

Doug Taylor · February 12th, 2003, 23:05

We had a pilot who flew our MD-88 from ATL to MCI today and was going to deadhead back to ATL as a passenger.

The pilot really didn't have a chance to eat because he got short called on reserve so he went out through gate security (in MCI, there is one screening point for about three gates) to get a quick sandwich. The pilot tries to come back through security with his sandwich and the TSA guy asks where his bags were.

He answerd something like , "Oh, I'm just deadheading back to Atlanta, I flew the plane in".

"Do you have a ticket?"

"No, I'm a deadheading crewmember".

"You can't get through without a ticket!"

The the gate agent comes up to the checkpoint and says that the captain was deadheading back to ATL on our jet and he was on the paperwork.

Nope, the agent called Atlanta to confirm that this pilot was scheduled to deadhead to Atlanta on our jet and took the word of a stranger (over the telephone) over information given by the gate agent working the flight.

Man, I'm so glad I'm not working a rotation thru MCI the rest of the month!!

A320_DUDE · February 12th, 2003, 23:22

[ QUOTE ]
The the gate agent comes up to the checkpoint and says that the captain was deadheading back to ATL on our jet and he was on the paperwork.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've had to do that same thing 50 million times since 9/11. Once at Bradley they tried to give one of SW pilots a hard time about not having a ticket. I go over to the checkpoint and told the security supervisor..."this pilot is a 10 year Captain with our company....he deadheads every week on this flight like clockwork....and YOU WILL let him though the checkpoint or YOU WILL explain to his chief pilot why he did not report for his flight in the morning. That ended it right then and there.

Some of the pilots have told me to "watch it" with what I say to them, but when you see 30 passengers walk though with no problem,then 5 crew members get pulled aside for no other reason than "they're just crew" it upsets everyone. I hope ALPA steps up and put a stop to this nonsense...before anybody else's career and life get put down the gutter

aloft · February 13th, 2003, 01:28

[ QUOTE ]

I got a "sniff test" today in Kansas City where the TSA picked up my hat with my wifes picture in it nearly pulling it out of my hand, walked forward and about 5 inches from my face asked, "So, you two out late last night starting trouble?", snickered and said something else which I barely heard and decided to ignore.

[/ QUOTE ]
Dude, I would soooo put my index finger in the center of that dude's chest and push him back to arm's length. They have no legal right to do that sort of stuff.

mpenguin1 · February 13th, 2003, 07:05

This was not exactly a win, the guy was obviously drinking and reeked of alchol, yes he was not legally drunk, but, he had been drinking & caught the attention of everybody involved.

A clear case winner would have been if he did not have alchol on his breath, now that is a winner.

Give the TSA time, they will get better over time, the pilots have been fighting them since day one. The more you fight, the worse they will get.

Got to admit, that when I have traveled, the TSA has been quite polite and their attention to detail is soooooooo much better than the way it was before. And yes, my luggage was cotton swabbed out of ORF, had to take my shoes off, had the magic wand up my rotor rooter, the whole nine yards. A TSA person finally told me why I was being picked on even though I was travelling on a US Air pass, dressed in a suit & tie & wearing a Boeing ID card, "I was travelling on a "1" way pass! Passengers travelling on one way tickets/pass are flagged in the computer......

PurduePilot · February 13th, 2003, 08:57

They will soon give these screeners federal arresting powers, so watch out. I'm very scared.

Doug Taylor · February 13th, 2003, 09:26

Anything less than .02 is considered a non-traceable amount in the state of Arizona and pretty much means zero alcohol consumption.

AirborneMedic_ANGa10 · February 13th, 2003, 09:33

[ QUOTE ]
This was not exactly a win, the guy was obviously drinking and reeked of alchol, yes he was not legally drunk, but, he had been drinking & caught the attention of everybody involved.

A clear case winner would have been if he did not have alchol on his breath, now that is a winner.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where do you get that info?? Actually, there was a report that the police department's breathalyzer showed a level well below the legal limit. Furthermore, at a hospital the guy's blood alcohol level was ZERO. The truth is, there was sufficient reason to acquit the guy. One person (who is untrained in the detection of intoxication) thought that the pilot's breath smelled like alcohol...and tried to ruin his hard-earned career. I'm sure that this TSA screener didn't/doesn't know about the life-threatening medical condition that causes the patient to often seem intoxicated and their breath to smell like alcohol. There have been people arrested with this condition that later died in jail because they didn't receive medical evaluation. My point is, you can't say that the 'guy was obviously drinking and reeked of alcohol'.

Doug Taylor · February 13th, 2003, 09:40

Actually, I was a juror on a DUI case in Maricopa County AZ and breathalyzer results are about a degree away from 'junk science' and aren't even admissible as evidence because of their inaccuracy.

However, breathalyzers can be used to build due cause for a blood test... The blood test is the only reliable and (get this) legal method of determining the amount of alcohol in your blood.

Or in the case of some people I know, the amount of blood in the alcohol, ack!

stuckingfk · February 13th, 2003, 10:36

Not sure how it is in other states, but when the police ask if you will submit to an alcohol test, if you say no, your license is suspended for one year. If you say yes, they bring out the breathalyzer. If you don't want to do that, then you can request a blood test. Personally, I would always opt for the blood test.

AirborneMedic_ANGa10 · February 13th, 2003, 15:17

[ QUOTE ]
Not sure how it is in other states, but when the police ask if you will submit to an alcohol test, if you say no, your license is suspended for one year. If you say yes, they bring out the breathalyzer. If you don't want to do that, then you can request a blood test. Personally, I would always opt for the blood test.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's my understanding of how it works in TX.

aloft · February 13th, 2003, 20:14

This also has the added bonus of allowing your body more time to metabolize whatever alcohol IS is your bloodstream...

Doug Taylor · February 13th, 2003, 20:18

According to the police, a human body didn't have enough time to metabolize enough of the alcohol between the two tests.

AirborneMedic_ANGa10 · February 13th, 2003, 21:26

[ QUOTE ]
According to the police, a human body didn't have enough time to metabolize enough of the alcohol between the two tests.

[/ QUOTE ]

Generally your liver is only capable of metabolizing 1/2 ounce of alcohol every 24 hours. That explains hangovers and liver disease!

davetheflyer · February 14th, 2003, 18:36

I'd say that he probably violated the 8 hour bottle to throttle rule at least. We have a 12 hour rule. And we don't have to be "drunk" to get fired. We just have to have a .02% BAC.

I'd say he's SOL as far as his job is concerned.

February 12th, 2003, 22:19	#1
A320_DUDE Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Hartford,CT Posts: 203	Delta Pilot in ORF was not Drunk! Score 1 for the pilots....0 for the TSA goons: Pilot Sober Doug, Since this guy is in the clear,will he be allowed back on the line? I figure if the company doesn't reinstate him PDQ,DALPA will be all over them!

February 12th, 2003, 22:31	#2
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 39,749 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Delta Pilot in ORF was not Drunk! If I was the captain, I'd sue the ass off to Fox News for reporting my full name, employee number and all of the secret door codes for about 15 different airports on the live news, in full view of al Quada. I'd also file a lawsuit against the TSA because they're out of control. I got a "sniff test" today in Kansas City where the TSA picked up my hat with my wifes picture in it nearly pulling it out of my hand, walked forward and about 5 inches from my face asked, "So, you two out late last night starting trouble?", snickered and said something else which I barely heard and decided to ignore. Meanwhile, yesterday, I flew BIL-SLC-SMF-SLC-MCI, got in about 11:45pm, called Kristie, went straight to bed, got up and headed to the airport for a 11:55am pushback. Beware, they're absolutely out to find someone to make the news. Thank god he didn't take it upon himself to deem me a security threat after I rolled my eyes, didn't answer and walked away quietly. Because once the TSA deems you a threat, they have the ability to revoke your pilots license without any due process.

February 12th, 2003, 22:59	#3
A320_DUDE Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Hartford,CT Posts: 203	Re: Delta Pilot in ORF was not Drunk! [ QUOTE ] Thank god he didn't take it upon himself to deem me a security threat after I rolled my eyes, didn't answer and walked away quietly. Because once the TSA deems you a threat, they have the ability to revoke your pilots license without any due process. [/ QUOTE ] In that case maybe I should stop being rude to them..........nah I don't think so! I'm sick of them making comments toward the ground and inflight crews. I almost had to restrain a pilot yesterday from ripping the face off one of the screeners......thank god he thought my little joke about "not having bail money" got him calmed down. The TSA manager sent our station manager a report because I went off on his "last line of defense" because after they pissed of another crew, I told them "If the pilots really wanted to do bring down an airplane,they would just push forward on the stick".....only it included a couple other choice words. My station manager showed me the report....then shredded it. I'm all for security (real security,not the rent-a-goons we have now) but dumping out a pilots flight kit and making snotty comments on his lunch is not security!

February 12th, 2003, 23:05	#4
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 39,749 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Delta Pilot in ORF was not Drunk! We had a pilot who flew our MD-88 from ATL to MCI today and was going to deadhead back to ATL as a passenger. The pilot really didn't have a chance to eat because he got short called on reserve so he went out through gate security (in MCI, there is one screening point for about three gates) to get a quick sandwich. The pilot tries to come back through security with his sandwich and the TSA guy asks where his bags were. He answerd something like , "Oh, I'm just deadheading back to Atlanta, I flew the plane in". "Do you have a ticket?" "No, I'm a deadheading crewmember". "You can't get through without a ticket!" The the gate agent comes up to the checkpoint and says that the captain was deadheading back to ATL on our jet and he was on the paperwork. Nope, the agent called Atlanta to confirm that this pilot was scheduled to deadhead to Atlanta on our jet and took the word of a stranger (over the telephone) over information given by the gate agent working the flight. Man, I'm so glad I'm not working a rotation thru MCI the rest of the month!!

February 12th, 2003, 23:22	#5
A320_DUDE Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Hartford,CT Posts: 203	Re: Delta Pilot in ORF was not Drunk! [ QUOTE ] The the gate agent comes up to the checkpoint and says that the captain was deadheading back to ATL on our jet and he was on the paperwork. [/ QUOTE ] I've had to do that same thing 50 million times since 9/11. Once at Bradley they tried to give one of SW pilots a hard time about not having a ticket. I go over to the checkpoint and told the security supervisor..."this pilot is a 10 year Captain with our company....he deadheads every week on this flight like clockwork....and YOU WILL let him though the checkpoint or YOU WILL explain to his chief pilot why he did not report for his flight in the morning. That ended it right then and there. Some of the pilots have told me to "watch it" with what I say to them, but when you see 30 passengers walk though with no problem,then 5 crew members get pulled aside for no other reason than "they're just crew" it upsets everyone. I hope ALPA steps up and put a stop to this nonsense...before anybody else's career and life get put down the gutter

February 13th, 2003, 01:28	#6
aloft Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Inside your OODA loop Posts: 6,722	Re: Delta Pilot in ORF was not Drunk! [ QUOTE ] I got a "sniff test" today in Kansas City where the TSA picked up my hat with my wifes picture in it nearly pulling it out of my hand, walked forward and about 5 inches from my face asked, "So, you two out late last night starting trouble?", snickered and said something else which I barely heard and decided to ignore. [/ QUOTE ] Dude, I would soooo put my index finger in the center of that dude's chest and push him back to arm's length. They have no legal right to do that sort of stuff.

February 13th, 2003, 07:05	#7
mpenguin1 Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 9,851 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Delta Pilot in ORF was not Drunk! This was not exactly a win, the guy was obviously drinking and reeked of alchol, yes he was not legally drunk, but, he had been drinking & caught the attention of everybody involved. A clear case winner would have been if he did not have alchol on his breath, now that is a winner. Give the TSA time, they will get better over time, the pilots have been fighting them since day one. The more you fight, the worse they will get. Got to admit, that when I have traveled, the TSA has been quite polite and their attention to detail is soooooooo much better than the way it was before. And yes, my luggage was cotton swabbed out of ORF, had to take my shoes off, had the magic wand up my rotor rooter, the whole nine yards. A TSA person finally told me why I was being picked on even though I was travelling on a US Air pass, dressed in a suit & tie & wearing a Boeing ID card, "I was travelling on a "1" way pass! Passengers travelling on one way tickets/pass are flagged in the computer......

February 13th, 2003, 08:57	#8
PurduePilot Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Sherborn, Massachusetts USA Posts: 1,309	Re: Delta Pilot in ORF was not Drunk! They will soon give these screeners federal arresting powers, so watch out. I'm very scared.

February 13th, 2003, 09:26	#9
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 39,749 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Delta Pilot in ORF was not Drunk! Anything less than .02 is considered a non-traceable amount in the state of Arizona and pretty much means zero alcohol consumption.

February 13th, 2003, 09:33	#10
AirborneMedic_ANGa10 Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: DFW Posts: 213	Re: Delta Pilot in ORF was not Drunk! [ QUOTE ] This was not exactly a win, the guy was obviously drinking and reeked of alchol, yes he was not legally drunk, but, he had been drinking & caught the attention of everybody involved. A clear case winner would have been if he did not have alchol on his breath, now that is a winner. [/ QUOTE ] Where do you get that info?? Actually, there was a report that the police department's breathalyzer showed a level well below the legal limit. Furthermore, at a hospital the guy's blood alcohol level was ZERO. The truth is, there was sufficient reason to acquit the guy. One person (who is untrained in the detection of intoxication) thought that the pilot's breath smelled like alcohol...and tried to ruin his hard-earned career. I'm sure that this TSA screener didn't/doesn't know about the life-threatening medical condition that causes the patient to often seem intoxicated and their breath to smell like alcohol. There have been people arrested with this condition that later died in jail because they didn't receive medical evaluation. My point is, you can't say that the 'guy was obviously drinking and reeked of alcohol'.

February 13th, 2003, 09:40	#11
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 39,749 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Delta Pilot in ORF was not Drunk! Actually, I was a juror on a DUI case in Maricopa County AZ and breathalyzer results are about a degree away from 'junk science' and aren't even admissible as evidence because of their inaccuracy. However, breathalyzers can be used to build due cause for a blood test... The blood test is the only reliable and (get this) legal method of determining the amount of alcohol in your blood. Or in the case of some people I know, the amount of blood in the alcohol, ack!

February 13th, 2003, 10:36	#12
stuckingfk Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: El Forko Grande Posts: 2,547	Re: Delta Pilot in ORF was not Drunk! Not sure how it is in other states, but when the police ask if you will submit to an alcohol test, if you say no, your license is suspended for one year. If you say yes, they bring out the breathalyzer. If you don't want to do that, then you can request a blood test. Personally, I would always opt for the blood test.

February 13th, 2003, 15:17	#13
AirborneMedic_ANGa10 Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: DFW Posts: 213	Re: Delta Pilot in ORF was not Drunk! [ QUOTE ] Not sure how it is in other states, but when the police ask if you will submit to an alcohol test, if you say no, your license is suspended for one year. If you say yes, they bring out the breathalyzer. If you don't want to do that, then you can request a blood test. Personally, I would always opt for the blood test. [/ QUOTE ] That's my understanding of how it works in TX.

February 13th, 2003, 20:14	#14
aloft Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Inside your OODA loop Posts: 6,722	Re: Delta Pilot in ORF was not Drunk! This also has the added bonus of allowing your body more time to metabolize whatever alcohol IS is your bloodstream...

February 13th, 2003, 20:18	#15
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 39,749 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Delta Pilot in ORF was not Drunk! According to the police, a human body didn't have enough time to metabolize enough of the alcohol between the two tests.

February 13th, 2003, 21:26	#16
AirborneMedic_ANGa10 Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: DFW Posts: 213	Re: Delta Pilot in ORF was not Drunk! [ QUOTE ] According to the police, a human body didn't have enough time to metabolize enough of the alcohol between the two tests. [/ QUOTE ] Generally your liver is only capable of metabolizing 1/2 ounce of alcohol every 24 hours. That explains hangovers and liver disease!

February 14th, 2003, 18:36	#17
davetheflyer Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: KATL, Georgia, Tennessee Posts: 1,016	Re: Delta Pilot in ORF was not Drunk! I'd say that he probably violated the 8 hour bottle to throttle rule at least. We have a 12 hour rule. And we don't have to be "drunk" to get fired. We just have to have a .02% BAC. I'd say he's SOL as far as his job is concerned.

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