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January 22nd, 2006, 18:55
| #1 |
| Newbie Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5
 |  Hard decision Hello everybody, I have always wanted to be an airline pilot and after some difficulties, I finally have a medical certificate. Anyway, I have just about secured funding and I have about narrowed my search down to two schools, Air Safety Flight Academy (http://www.airsafetyacademy.com/) and Regional Airline Academy (http://www.raaflightschools.com/), both are in the Phoenix area. I am looking at these schools because I am interested in getting into the regional airlines quickly so as to start building seniority. I am pretty sure I will have plenty of time to get a college degree online before I am a candidate for the major airlines anyway. The problem is I am having a hard time deciding which school to go to. Air Safety Flight Academy is appealing because it guaranties you a flight instructor position which pays a fairly livable wage, especially compared to most. I also like their completion rate. I asked Dee Pinkston, the guy who runs the place, what his completion rate was. He told me that since he opened the academy he has only had one student not complete the program! I really feel that I would be well taken care of at this academy. They also use the Cirrus which is a really cool aircraft! The downside is that once you take into account the year and a half you are a CFI, it takes significantly longer than RAA and it costs a little more. The total price tag on this academy for certificates and ratings is $60,000 and then another $4,980 for the crew resource management course. Regional Airline Academy is all about getting you into the airlines quickly. The certificates and ratings are significantly less, $47,000. This price is also a flat fee. They simply promise to get you all the training regardless of how long it takes you for that rate. They also put you through a CRJ type rating program for $13,000 which is supposed to give you an edge getting into the airlines. I think that the CRJ type rating is an advantage, although I am a little bit unenthusiastic about the prospect of having to move to Denver for 6 weeks to complete it. They do have a lower completion rate 80%, but I am pretty sure that if I apply myself I will pass, 80% is still higher than the average university. I guess there are two questions I am asking here. First of all, if there is anyone one this board who is either currently attending one of these schools, or has attended one, I would LOVE to hear from you. Secondly, I am suspicious of the flat rate for the certificates and ratings at RAA. Can anyone give me any input on whether or not this is one of those to good to be true things? I have got to decide fast, I have almost got my student loans locked in and plan to start somewhere in the beginning of February. |
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January 22nd, 2006, 19:09
| #2 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Left Seat
Posts: 5,482
 | I answered your question in the other forum. |
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January 22nd, 2006, 19:13
| #3 | |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: USA
Posts: 1,715
| Quote:
As for everything else you wrote...oh my. Don't rush into a decision like this. To sum it up, you can train at other places (local FBOs) for much cheaper, with the same quality, you don't need to go to a flight academy to be successful, the CRJ type rating is worthless, and there is no reason to rush into the airlines. I'll let everybody else on the board explain things in detail. | |
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January 22nd, 2006, 19:22
| #4 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,847
| HighFlyer, My first question to you would be...why did you have trouble obtaining a medical certificate and what action will you have to take to sustain it in the future? Were you able to get a First Class medical...or only a Second or Third Class? Medical conditions may disqualify you from the career you seek. Have you determined the medical condition will not prohibit you from a First Class certification now and in the future? Secondly, I would advise that you spend the money on a good college degree program first...and obtain your flying ratings along the way. It might cost you half of what you are looking to pay. Good luck...ask lots of questions...don't rush into it until you have all your questions answered. A lot of good people and pro pilots here to answer your questions. I know they'll be happy to assist you with any questions you have. |
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January 22nd, 2006, 20:02
| #5 | |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,595
| Quote:
Also, somewhere in your post you used the word "promise" in reference to getting your certificates. I believe successful training is not anything that can be "promised." Those words are only used to lead ppl to make snap decision like you are so close to doing. IMO, give it time.
__________________ "Who'd you give it to? Where's the meat?" | |
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January 22nd, 2006, 20:45
| #6 |
| Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Winchestertonfieldville
Posts: 6,404
| Neither! I would advise neither of the two academies you have mentioned will live up to their promises. At RAA, you buy a type rating after you have a certain amount of hours. It is simply not needed and generally viewed as a shortcut by hiring depts. and fellow pilots. AirSafety is another academy that is not established and is too new to judge. I dealt with the management there on several occasions and warn you that they will say anything about anyone to get your money and for you to enroll in their program. Take a closer look in Phoenix as, in my opinion, there are several better and more stable options. Disclaimer: My personal opinion only.
__________________ The simplest answer tends to be correct. |
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January 22nd, 2006, 21:10
| #7 |
| Junior Member  Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 213
| You are plenty young to take your time getting your ratings...so you don't have to spend all of that money on a flight academy for "guaraneed" ratings fast. Im about your age and I have taken my time getting mine (almost done with CFI) at a local FBO and go to a 4 yr university at the same time...no regrets so far and everything is working just fine. Also, I personally don't think that rushing into a regional jet is all that smart, no matter what the brochure says-take your time gaining experience. I'm not bashing flight academies, this is just my opinion and what is working for me.
__________________ Patrick |
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January 22nd, 2006, 21:14
| #8 | |
| Newbie Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5
| Quote:
As for a four year program, I wasn’t aware that it would be less, in fact I had the idea it would be more, especially after living expenses were figured in. That said, I really want to start flying sooner than that. I have a friend who is going to Denver Metro State, and it seems like his program is going extremely slowly on the flight end. It just seems to me the big thing is to get into the airlines and start earning seniority, I can do online classes while I am working for the airlines. | |
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January 22nd, 2006, 21:30
| #9 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 6,514
| How old are you? Metro State has a great program cause they farm the flying out to different schools. What school does your friend fly at and why is he going slow? Unless things have changed, perhaps he should find a different school or CFI. Does he have money problems? You can accompish your goals outside a big academy. In my view RAA has a bad rep and I've been to Dee's school. Bunch of kids running around in airline uniforms. Glendale aviation, next door, seemed like a better outfit. You sound like you've just read flight training mag and are making decisions based on the ads you read. There are many ways to achieve your goals. You should read this site cover to cover...so to speak. |
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January 22nd, 2006, 22:24
| #10 | |
| Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,847
| Quote:
I think your enthusiasm is great and I don't want to mitigate it in any way. However, I would suggest that you chart out a long term, solid strategy for completing your professional goals. If an airline job is your goal, then doing what it takes to get there ASAP would seem like the way to go. But why not take a while to learn your craft. Take the next 3 years to earn your CFI ratings. Get in a good college degree program while you do so...maybe business, engineering, pharmacy is an excellent one. Then work as a CFI during your last year or two of college. Maybe you'll have to CFI another year or two after college. It may not appear to be the quickest, easiest or best way to accomplish your goal. But, man o man, what a solid background you will have obtained in just 5 or 6 years...with 35 to 40 professional years ahead of you. As a former TWA captain used to tell me..."Flying's the best part time job you'll ever have. Just make sure you have something else out there to earn a living with." You do not have to slow your flying progress if you are enrolled in an unrelated college degree program. Your progress, will be determined by your motivation and financial resources. | |
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January 22nd, 2006, 22:32
| #11 | |
| Old Skool Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,595
| Quote:
__________________ "Who'd you give it to? Where's the meat?" | |
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January 23rd, 2006, 12:33
| #12 |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 1,164
| (1) Don't waste ANY money on a CRM class / course. You'll learn plenty just being a student. Any airline will teach you more, which really is nothing. Can you get along with others in close quarters? Great! You just passed. Send my check to ... (2) Don't waste ANY money on a CRJ or ERJ or any other type rating. $13K to learn the CRJ?! That's immoral! That's robbery! It will do you ZERO good no matter where you go because every airline has to train you according to their program. Save the cash! Buy a car! (3) Sure, you'll have plenty of time to get the 4-year degree online. It's going to take 8+ year until you see a major airline. (4) Get the 4-year degree now and fly for fun. Make sure that medical can be renewed without restrictions, lest you spend a ton of cash just to see it wasted.
__________________ "To be old and wise you must first be young and stupid." - Anon |
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January 23rd, 2006, 13:23
| #13 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: KLAS
Posts: 3,261
| I recently discovered that the local community college here in Las Vegas has something called the Aviation Degree Program. I am signing up for it this summer. Im sure they offer this at other community colleges. They start with classroom and move you up to a private license ect ect for a small fraction of what it would cost at one of those academys. Something worth looking into. Not to mention you can also take non-aviation college credits as well. |
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