Commercial checkride

braidkid · February 10th, 2003, 17:17

Hi everybody,
Well, I have my commercial checkride scheduled for wednesday. One problem......for my solo long
cross country (300 total, 250 one way, 3 stops) I brought my wife along and logged it in my log
book as both of us in the airplane. That was a stupid mistake because the trip is supposed to be
"solo" so even if she doesnt even know what the wings do it was not technically "solo." So now I'm
in a bind because I dont want to spend the money to do another long cross country. I've decided
I will talk to the examiner about the situation and tell him that she was in the airplane but not
in my logbook (I will cross her name out of the logbook). Any ideas on this wonderful technicality? I've talked to numerous pilots who have taken people with them on the long cross country (who REALLY flies that far solo, you know you've done it too!!!) and just didnt mention anyone in the plane in the logbook. I don't see anything wrong with crossing her name out, telling the examiner about it and letting him decide because everyone knows it was really solo and the point of the trip was met.

pure_IMC · February 10th, 2003, 17:24

I see your dilema, but sorry to say, I think you are out of luck. Unless you have a de who willing to look past this, which is very unlikely. As far as telling him that she was with you, and just crossing her name off in the logbook, that wouldnt be such a good idea. He is going to ask you to show him this entry, and if he sees it crossed out, dont think that will go over so well. I wish you all the luck let us know how it turns out.

drumminpilot · February 10th, 2003, 21:07

I took three other people with me on mine. None of them provided instruction, and none of them acted as safety pilot (only one was a pilot), so it was logged as solo PIC in my logbook. Everybody I know has done this with XC's. I really doubt the DE will look past it, but, it's worth a shot. It's a matter of whether or not you want to take the chance on your ride and cross your fingers that the DE will accept it. My advice: It's gonna be a nice day tomorrow, jack a plane, and knock it out.

jtrain609 · February 10th, 2003, 21:59

But it stands that the rules state solo, which means by yourself. If you're willing to adjust this rule what other ones don't matter to you? Do the rules only apply when they are in your favor? For the process to be valid you need to follow even the rules that don't work out in your favor in every situation.

I wouldn't try to get it past the DE. Solo means by yourself, not the only person flying the plane.

Cheers

John Herreshoff

flyitup · February 10th, 2003, 23:07

[ QUOTE ]
But it stands that the rules state solo, which means by yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

What "rules" are you referring to?

I was just reading in my FAR/AIM under 61.129, which is aeronautical experience for commercial pilots. Take a look at part "A" under subpart "i", it states: "One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical miles total distance, with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which is a straight line distance of at least 250 nautical miles from the original departure point."

That's verbatim, word-for-word. After reading that whole paragraph I don't see the word "solo" anywhere. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but that looks pretty cut and dry to me...

[ QUOTE ]
If you're willing to adjust this rule what other ones don't matter to you? Do the rules only apply when they are in your favor? For the process to be valid you need to follow even the rules that don't work out in your favor in every situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

John, why don't you lay off Braidkid a bit; your tone is pretty nasty. Why would you insinuate that he may be breaking other "rules" when you don't even know the guy?
He has his checkride on Wednesday, and posted a question on Jetcareers looking for some CONSTRUCTIVE advice, not a bashing...

Buzo · February 10th, 2003, 23:44

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But it stands that the rules state solo, which means by yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

What "rules" are you referring to?

I was just reading in my FAR/AIM under 61.129, which is aeronautical experience for commercial pilots. Take a look at part "A" under subpart "i", it states: "One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical miles total distance, with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which is a straight line distance of at least 250 nautical miles from the original departure point."

That's verbatim, word-for-word. After reading that whole paragraph I don't see the word "solo" anywhere. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but that looks pretty cut and dry to me...

[/ QUOTE ]

Read the whole section, it says 10 hours of solo flight in a single-engine airplane on the areas of operation listed in 61.127(b)(1) of this part, which inclueds at least-
(i) One cross-country flight of not less than 300 miles.......

flyitup · February 11th, 2003, 00:13

[ QUOTE ]
Read the whole section, it says 10 hours of solo flight in a single-engine airplane on the areas of operation listed in 61.127(b)(1) of this part, which inclueds at least-
(i) One cross-country flight of not less than 300 miles.......

[/ QUOTE ]

Buzo...

I'm not seeing the part you're referring to. Under 61.129, I see 10hrs instrument training, 10hrs in complex aircraft, but I don't see the part stating "solo" areas of operation. Furthermore, under 61.127 part "b", subpart "1" it lists 11 items, none of which say anything about cross-country flight.

I'm not looking to argue, I'm just trying to clearly understand this rule...

stuckingfk · February 11th, 2003, 01:10

It does say "10 hours of solo flight in a single-engine airplane" in 61.129 (a)(4. I am struggling to find a definition of solo flight. I know its sole manipulator of controls, so I don't see where there is a problem if someone rides along.

fucius · February 11th, 2003, 02:24

[ QUOTE ]
It does say "10 hours of solo flight in a single-engine airplane" in 61.129 (a)(4. I am struggling to find a definition of solo flight. I know its sole manipulator of controls, so I don't see where there is a problem if someone rides along.

[/ QUOTE ]

Solo flight..."logging of solo flight time" 61.51(d) states,"a pilot may log as solo flight time only that flight time when the pilot is the sole occupant of the aircraft."

braidkid · February 11th, 2003, 08:08

Mr. Herreshoff,
I see your point about not breaking the rules. My point was, what is the intent of the law? The intent of the law is for me to fly a cross country of at least 300 miles on my own. I've flown at least 2 trips to Colorado with people who can't fly to save their lives and a 20 hour trip to Vegas. I think the intent of the law in my case has been met. The only thing I was stating in my post is it's a shame I made note of my passengers in my log and now I have to shell out another $250 to do the same thing I'm fully capable of.
I think you will find that probably 80 to 90 percent of these long cross countrys are made with other people in the airplane, they are just not mentioned in the log book. I dont have a problem with this as long as the person doesnt have a student/private license and I think this FAR should be rewritten in a way that doesn't create such a grey area for so many people. There, now I'm off my soap box and I'm going to bite the bullet and get what I need done tonight for my checkride tomorrow....thanks everyone for your thoughts.
Later...

ready2fly · February 11th, 2003, 08:20

braidkid: here's a suggestion - call AOPA and ask their legal department (if you're a member, that is). They will have the answer for you.

jtrain609 · February 11th, 2003, 08:23

Heya,

The point of my post, and the use of my wording was pulled from the trial and death of Socrates by Plato. Socrates was setenced to death by the state and instead of going into exile he went through with his death sentence because that's what the law said. The point being, follow the rules even when they don't work out in your favor. I know this is not a life or death matter, but when we can disreguard the rules when they don't fit into our plans then what good are any of the rules?

I know it's a BS reg, and I'm going to have to be doing that same long cross country soon myself. But it remains, if you're willing to bend this one; what's the next one that you'll be willing to bend?

Cheers

John Herreshoff

Buzo · February 11th, 2003, 09:23

[ QUOTE ]

Buzo...

I'm not seeing the part you're referring to. Under 61.129, I see 10hrs instrument training, 10hrs in complex aircraft, but I don't see the part stating "solo" areas of operation. Furthermore, under 61.127 part "b", subpart "1" it lists 11 items, none of which say anything about cross-country flight.

I'm not looking to argue, I'm just trying to clearly understand this rule...

[/ QUOTE ]

61.129(a)(4)(i)

Section 129 lists the eligibility requirements. Subpart a is for a single engine rating.

1&2 and the subparts associated with them list the total experience

3 lists that you need 20 hours of training (dual). The subparts of 3 lists the things that must make up those 20 hours

4 says you need 10 hours of solo which includes everything listed in the subparts of that section (i)&(ii)

Buzo · February 11th, 2003, 09:27

Braidkid,

I have talked to two different examiners about this in the past. The examiner I took my commercial ride with goes with the, I won't ask if you don't volunteer. The examiner I took the CFI ride with made sure to emphasize that it had to be SOLO. She said there is no interpretation involved, it is by yourself.

My suggestion is to ask the examiner before the checkride. Do not wait until you are handing them the money and proving you are elegible. AOPA also has the stance of it must be by yourself.

braidkid · February 11th, 2003, 13:53

man, i never really considered what Socrates would have done!!!!
Anyway, after much whaling and knashing of teeth, I've decided to fly my 300 mile x country tonight and I've decided to do it by myself. I won't even bring my dog along because God knows, if I get into trouble or need help he could come to my rescue.
I have my checkride tomorrow morning....man, talk about last minute!!! Hopefully tomorrow I will be a "commercial pilot" and will finally have achieved my dream!!!
Talk to yall later........

ready2fly · February 11th, 2003, 14:07

G'luck dude!

FLY SAFE!

R2F

flyitup · February 11th, 2003, 17:22

Interesting that Socrates got brought up in this conversation… We were just talking about him in my Humanities class today… Very interesting fellow.

This regulation is really starting to irritate the hell out of me! I spoke with two different CFI’s, both gold seal by the way, and they both agreed that having your wife along or any other non-pilot is legal as long as you’re the pilot in command. The deal is you have to be the SOLO PIC to log it as solo. Braidkid was the PIC, therefore it counts… I’m going to call AOPA tomorrow morning and have a chat with them…

Anyway, fly safe on your trip tonight Ryan!!

E_Dawg · February 11th, 2003, 17:37

Braidkid, good luck to you; flyitup I agree with you, and I think the intent of the law is fulfilled if you fly it as PIC. braidkid I think you had three options (I stumbled onto this late, and I see you have already chosen)
1) just call the examiner; he or she will be the one to decide anyways - get a definative answer
2) repeat the flight - get more experience
3) try to sneak it by - probably the worst of the three

anywas it's a moot point but I am interested in wha tyou find fly

flyitup · February 11th, 2003, 17:43

[ QUOTE ]
Braidkid, good luck to you; flyitup I agree with you, and I think the intent of the law is fulfilled if you fly it as PIC. braidkid I think you had three options (I stumbled onto this late, and I see you have already chosen)
1) just call the examiner; he or she will be the one to decide anyways - get a definative answer
2) repeat the flight - get more experience
3) try to sneak it by - probably the worst of the three

anywas it's a moot point but I am interested in wha tyou find fly

[/ QUOTE ]

Ed, I'm glad someone is seeing eye to eye with me...

The bad thing is I don't think Braidkid really even needed to fly that trip again tonight. He never broke a rule..

Oh well, it's not a complete waist, at least he's building more hours/experience as Ed stated...

jtrain609 · February 11th, 2003, 18:58

So you're saying that by the definition of solo I can take someone flying with me when I'm a student pilot?

Cheers

John Herreshoff

Buzo · February 11th, 2003, 19:13

Here is the answer to the question when asked on the FAA part 61 FAQ page.

QUESTION -6. Must the solo X/C described in 61.129(a)(4) be as "sole occupant" as defined in
61.51(d) --i.e., alone in the aircraft? Suppose a person did a X/C trip as a PVT that fulfills the rule in
every other respect, except s/he was carrying non-pilot passengers --his/her children, for example.
Wasn't that pilot "alone" for all practical purposes (decision-making, flight planning and execution, etc.).
Mightn't it be argued that such experience is actually MORE valuable than being physically alone in the
airplane, since it adds to the mix elements of responsibility and pressure --and the implied the ability
to manage those factors-- that wouldn't otherwise be there?

ANSWER-6:[§61.129(a)(4) It says "SOLO" and we intended it to be "SOLO." So if a person has his
or her grandmother, brothers, aunts, or uncles on board, he was not solo. IT HAS TO BE DONE SOLO

flyitup · February 11th, 2003, 19:29

[ QUOTE ]
So you're saying that by the definition of solo I can take someone flying with me when I'm a student pilot?

[/ QUOTE ]

Suuuure... Go for it!

I'm not going to beat this dead horse anymore... I just find it unbelievable that so many qualified people can have such a difference of opinion on the issue...

dashcraf · February 11th, 2003, 19:30

I called and spoke to someone in the legal department at AOPA today after reading this thread because I have the same situation having thought my long XC was covered.

I got a very clear answer from AOPA:
"Solo time is that time when you are the sole occupant of the aircraft."

mrivc211 · February 11th, 2003, 19:35

"solo" means sole occupant in the aircraft. So my dog doesn't count, but your wife does. PM me and I'll tell you my real opinion on this.

flyitup · February 11th, 2003, 20:32

[ QUOTE ]
PM me and I'll tell you my real opinion on this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mrivc...

Just share your thoughts right here...

February 10th, 2003, 17:17	#1
braidkid Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 556	Commercial checkride Hi everybody, Well, I have my commercial checkride scheduled for wednesday. One problem......for my solo long cross country (300 total, 250 one way, 3 stops) I brought my wife along and logged it in my log book as both of us in the airplane. That was a stupid mistake because the trip is supposed to be "solo" so even if she doesnt even know what the wings do it was not technically "solo." So now I'm in a bind because I dont want to spend the money to do another long cross country. I've decided I will talk to the examiner about the situation and tell him that she was in the airplane but not in my logbook (I will cross her name out of the logbook). Any ideas on this wonderful technicality? I've talked to numerous pilots who have taken people with them on the long cross country (who REALLY flies that far solo, you know you've done it too!!!) and just didnt mention anyone in the plane in the logbook. I don't see anything wrong with crossing her name out, telling the examiner about it and letting him decide because everyone knows it was really solo and the point of the trip was met.

February 10th, 2003, 17:24	#2
pure_IMC Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Vero Beach, FL Posts: 181	Re: Commercial checkride I see your dilema, but sorry to say, I think you are out of luck. Unless you have a de who willing to look past this, which is very unlikely. As far as telling him that she was with you, and just crossing her name off in the logbook, that wouldnt be such a good idea. He is going to ask you to show him this entry, and if he sees it crossed out, dont think that will go over so well. I wish you all the luck let us know how it turns out.

February 10th, 2003, 21:07	#3
drumminpilot Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Springdale, AR (XNA/RVS/ASG) Posts: 320	Re: Commercial checkride I took three other people with me on mine. None of them provided instruction, and none of them acted as safety pilot (only one was a pilot), so it was logged as solo PIC in my logbook. Everybody I know has done this with XC's. I really doubt the DE will look past it, but, it's worth a shot. It's a matter of whether or not you want to take the chance on your ride and cross your fingers that the DE will accept it. My advice: It's gonna be a nice day tomorrow, jack a plane, and knock it out.

February 10th, 2003, 21:59	#4
jtrain609 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 12,329	Re: Commercial checkride But it stands that the rules state solo, which means by yourself. If you're willing to adjust this rule what other ones don't matter to you? Do the rules only apply when they are in your favor? For the process to be valid you need to follow even the rules that don't work out in your favor in every situation. I wouldn't try to get it past the DE. Solo means by yourself, not the only person flying the plane. Cheers John Herreshoff

February 10th, 2003, 23:07	#5
flyitup Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 620	Re: Commercial checkride [ QUOTE ] But it stands that the rules state solo, which means by yourself. [/ QUOTE ] What "rules" are you referring to? I was just reading in my FAR/AIM under 61.129, which is aeronautical experience for commercial pilots. Take a look at part "A" under subpart "i", it states: "One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical miles total distance, with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which is a straight line distance of at least 250 nautical miles from the original departure point." That's verbatim, word-for-word. After reading that whole paragraph I don't see the word "solo" anywhere. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but that looks pretty cut and dry to me... [ QUOTE ] If you're willing to adjust this rule what other ones don't matter to you? Do the rules only apply when they are in your favor? For the process to be valid you need to follow even the rules that don't work out in your favor in every situation. [/ QUOTE ] John, why don't you lay off Braidkid a bit; your tone is pretty nasty. Why would you insinuate that he may be breaking other "rules" when you don't even know the guy? He has his checkride on Wednesday, and posted a question on Jetcareers looking for some CONSTRUCTIVE advice, not a bashing...

February 10th, 2003, 23:44	#6
Buzo Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Rockford, IL Posts: 259	Re: Commercial checkride [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] But it stands that the rules state solo, which means by yourself. [/ QUOTE ] What "rules" are you referring to? I was just reading in my FAR/AIM under 61.129, which is aeronautical experience for commercial pilots. Take a look at part "A" under subpart "i", it states: "One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical miles total distance, with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which is a straight line distance of at least 250 nautical miles from the original departure point." That's verbatim, word-for-word. After reading that whole paragraph I don't see the word "solo" anywhere. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but that looks pretty cut and dry to me... [/ QUOTE ] Read the whole section, it says 10 hours of solo flight in a single-engine airplane on the areas of operation listed in 61.127(b)(1) of this part, which inclueds at least- (i) One cross-country flight of not less than 300 miles.......

February 11th, 2003, 00:13	#7
flyitup Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 620	Re: Commercial checkride [ QUOTE ] Read the whole section, it says 10 hours of solo flight in a single-engine airplane on the areas of operation listed in 61.127(b)(1) of this part, which inclueds at least- (i) One cross-country flight of not less than 300 miles....... [/ QUOTE ] Buzo... I'm not seeing the part you're referring to. Under 61.129, I see 10hrs instrument training, 10hrs in complex aircraft, but I don't see the part stating "solo" areas of operation. Furthermore, under 61.127 part "b", subpart "1" it lists 11 items, none of which say anything about cross-country flight. I'm not looking to argue, I'm just trying to clearly understand this rule...

February 11th, 2003, 01:10	#8
stuckingfk Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: El Forko Grande Posts: 2,601	Re: Commercial checkride It does say "10 hours of solo flight in a single-engine airplane" in 61.129 (a)(4. I am struggling to find a definition of solo flight. I know its sole manipulator of controls, so I don't see where there is a problem if someone rides along.

February 11th, 2003, 02:24	#9
fucius Newbie Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: DEN Posts: 15	Re: Commercial checkride [ QUOTE ] It does say "10 hours of solo flight in a single-engine airplane" in 61.129 (a)(4. I am struggling to find a definition of solo flight. I know its sole manipulator of controls, so I don't see where there is a problem if someone rides along. [/ QUOTE ] Solo flight..."logging of solo flight time" 61.51(d) states,"a pilot may log as solo flight time only that flight time when the pilot is the sole occupant of the aircraft."

February 11th, 2003, 08:08	#10
braidkid Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 556	Re: Commercial checkride Mr. Herreshoff, I see your point about not breaking the rules. My point was, what is the intent of the law? The intent of the law is for me to fly a cross country of at least 300 miles on my own. I've flown at least 2 trips to Colorado with people who can't fly to save their lives and a 20 hour trip to Vegas. I think the intent of the law in my case has been met. The only thing I was stating in my post is it's a shame I made note of my passengers in my log and now I have to shell out another $250 to do the same thing I'm fully capable of. I think you will find that probably 80 to 90 percent of these long cross countrys are made with other people in the airplane, they are just not mentioned in the log book. I dont have a problem with this as long as the person doesnt have a student/private license and I think this FAR should be rewritten in a way that doesn't create such a grey area for so many people. There, now I'm off my soap box and I'm going to bite the bullet and get what I need done tonight for my checkride tomorrow....thanks everyone for your thoughts. Later...

February 11th, 2003, 08:20	#11
ready2fly Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: DFW Posts: 7,182	Re: Commercial checkride braidkid: here's a suggestion - call AOPA and ask their legal department (if you're a member, that is). They will have the answer for you.

February 11th, 2003, 08:23	#12
jtrain609 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 12,329	Re: Commercial checkride Heya, The point of my post, and the use of my wording was pulled from the trial and death of Socrates by Plato. Socrates was setenced to death by the state and instead of going into exile he went through with his death sentence because that's what the law said. The point being, follow the rules even when they don't work out in your favor. I know this is not a life or death matter, but when we can disreguard the rules when they don't fit into our plans then what good are any of the rules? I know it's a BS reg, and I'm going to have to be doing that same long cross country soon myself. But it remains, if you're willing to bend this one; what's the next one that you'll be willing to bend? Cheers John Herreshoff

February 11th, 2003, 09:23	#13
Buzo Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Rockford, IL Posts: 259	Re: Commercial checkride [ QUOTE ] Buzo... I'm not seeing the part you're referring to. Under 61.129, I see 10hrs instrument training, 10hrs in complex aircraft, but I don't see the part stating "solo" areas of operation. Furthermore, under 61.127 part "b", subpart "1" it lists 11 items, none of which say anything about cross-country flight. I'm not looking to argue, I'm just trying to clearly understand this rule... [/ QUOTE ] 61.129(a)(4)(i) Section 129 lists the eligibility requirements. Subpart a is for a single engine rating. 1&2 and the subparts associated with them list the total experience 3 lists that you need 20 hours of training (dual). The subparts of 3 lists the things that must make up those 20 hours 4 says you need 10 hours of solo which includes everything listed in the subparts of that section (i)&(ii)

February 11th, 2003, 09:27	#14
Buzo Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Rockford, IL Posts: 259	Re: Commercial checkride Braidkid, I have talked to two different examiners about this in the past. The examiner I took my commercial ride with goes with the, I won't ask if you don't volunteer. The examiner I took the CFI ride with made sure to emphasize that it had to be SOLO. She said there is no interpretation involved, it is by yourself. My suggestion is to ask the examiner before the checkride. Do not wait until you are handing them the money and proving you are elegible. AOPA also has the stance of it must be by yourself.

February 11th, 2003, 13:53	#15
braidkid Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 556	Re: Commercial checkride man, i never really considered what Socrates would have done!!!! Anyway, after much whaling and knashing of teeth, I've decided to fly my 300 mile x country tonight and I've decided to do it by myself. I won't even bring my dog along because God knows, if I get into trouble or need help he could come to my rescue. I have my checkride tomorrow morning....man, talk about last minute!!! Hopefully tomorrow I will be a "commercial pilot" and will finally have achieved my dream!!! Talk to yall later........

February 11th, 2003, 14:07	#16
ready2fly Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: DFW Posts: 7,182	Re: Commercial checkride G'luck dude! FLY SAFE! R2F

February 11th, 2003, 17:22	#17
flyitup Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 620	Re: Commercial checkride Interesting that Socrates got brought up in this conversation… We were just talking about him in my Humanities class today… Very interesting fellow. This regulation is really starting to irritate the hell out of me! I spoke with two different CFI’s, both gold seal by the way, and they both agreed that having your wife along or any other non-pilot is legal as long as you’re the pilot in command. The deal is you have to be the SOLO PIC to log it as solo. Braidkid was the PIC, therefore it counts… I’m going to call AOPA tomorrow morning and have a chat with them… Anyway, fly safe on your trip tonight Ryan!!

February 11th, 2003, 17:37	#18
E_Dawg Moderator Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: chicago Posts: 4,232	Re: Commercial checkride Braidkid, good luck to you; flyitup I agree with you, and I think the intent of the law is fulfilled if you fly it as PIC. braidkid I think you had three options (I stumbled onto this late, and I see you have already chosen) 1) just call the examiner; he or she will be the one to decide anyways - get a definative answer 2) repeat the flight - get more experience 3) try to sneak it by - probably the worst of the three anywas it's a moot point but I am interested in wha tyou find fly

February 11th, 2003, 17:43	#19
flyitup Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 620	Re: Commercial checkride [ QUOTE ] Braidkid, good luck to you; flyitup I agree with you, and I think the intent of the law is fulfilled if you fly it as PIC. braidkid I think you had three options (I stumbled onto this late, and I see you have already chosen) 1) just call the examiner; he or she will be the one to decide anyways - get a definative answer 2) repeat the flight - get more experience 3) try to sneak it by - probably the worst of the three anywas it's a moot point but I am interested in wha tyou find fly [/ QUOTE ] Ed, I'm glad someone is seeing eye to eye with me... The bad thing is I don't think Braidkid really even needed to fly that trip again tonight. He never broke a rule.. Oh well, it's not a complete waist, at least he's building more hours/experience as Ed stated...

February 11th, 2003, 18:58	#20
jtrain609 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 12,329	Re: Commercial checkride So you're saying that by the definition of solo I can take someone flying with me when I'm a student pilot? Cheers John Herreshoff

February 11th, 2003, 19:13	#21
Buzo Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Rockford, IL Posts: 259	Re: Commercial checkride Here is the answer to the question when asked on the FAA part 61 FAQ page. QUESTION -6. Must the solo X/C described in 61.129(a)(4) be as "sole occupant" as defined in 61.51(d) --i.e., alone in the aircraft? Suppose a person did a X/C trip as a PVT that fulfills the rule in every other respect, except s/he was carrying non-pilot passengers --his/her children, for example. Wasn't that pilot "alone" for all practical purposes (decision-making, flight planning and execution, etc.). Mightn't it be argued that such experience is actually MORE valuable than being physically alone in the airplane, since it adds to the mix elements of responsibility and pressure --and the implied the ability to manage those factors-- that wouldn't otherwise be there? ANSWER-6:[§61.129(a)(4) It says "SOLO" and we intended it to be "SOLO." So if a person has his or her grandmother, brothers, aunts, or uncles on board, he was not solo. IT HAS TO BE DONE SOLO

February 11th, 2003, 19:29	#22
flyitup Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 620	Re: Commercial checkride [ QUOTE ] So you're saying that by the definition of solo I can take someone flying with me when I'm a student pilot? [/ QUOTE ] Suuuure... Go for it! I'm not going to beat this dead horse anymore... I just find it unbelievable that so many qualified people can have such a difference of opinion on the issue...

February 11th, 2003, 19:30	#23
dashcraf Newbie Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 8	Re: Commercial checkride I called and spoke to someone in the legal department at AOPA today after reading this thread because I have the same situation having thought my long XC was covered. I got a very clear answer from AOPA: "Solo time is that time when you are the sole occupant of the aircraft."

February 11th, 2003, 19:35	#24
mrivc211 Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 2,048	Re: Commercial checkride "solo" means sole occupant in the aircraft. So my dog doesn't count, but your wife does. PM me and I'll tell you my real opinion on this.

February 11th, 2003, 20:32	#25
flyitup Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 620	Re: Commercial checkride [ QUOTE ] PM me and I'll tell you my real opinion on this. [/ QUOTE ] Mrivc... Just share your thoughts right here...

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode