pilot fired because he is muslim

kel · February 5th, 2003, 11:48

www.usatoday.com

JaceTheAce · February 5th, 2003, 12:23

Here is the link:

Federal officials say pilot fired because he is Muslim

Under the special circumstances of Islam extremists, it was probably appropriate. But yes, they should give him back pay and after researching his background and find nothing should give him his job back.

JaceTheAce · February 5th, 2003, 12:25

[ QUOTE ]
Under the special circumstances of Islam extremists, it was probably appropriate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oops...meant to say "Under the special circumstances of 9/11 and Islam extremists being behind the terror acts, it was probably appropriate."

ready2fly · February 5th, 2003, 12:35

[ QUOTE ]
Under the special circumstances of 9/11 and Islam extremists being behind the terror acts, it was probably appropriate.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry Jace - I'm going to disagree. Using your SAME logic then, what if the 9/11 attacks were committed by white-Christian Extremists (believe me -they DO exist)? Do all white-Christian pilots then deserved to be fired from their pilot positions. No questions asked?

Think about that.

You do NOT violate a persons Civil Liberties based on their religion, color.... anything.

The airline has the burden of proof here. Seeing how most Muslm's don't drink - their reason for firing him is quite week.

chunk75 · February 5th, 2003, 12:54

[ QUOTE ]
The airline has the burden of proof here. Seeing how most Muslm's don't drink - their reason for firing him is quite week.

[/ QUOTE ]

The 9/11 hijackers/murderers spent their last few nights in a strip club....SO what's YOUR point?

pilot602 · February 5th, 2003, 13:00

[ QUOTE ]
Under the special circumstances of 9/11 and Islam extremists being behind the terror acts, it was probably appropriate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Zeig Hile, mien furor.

Maybe in 1940's Germany this would be "appropriate," or the USSR between the late '40s and late '80s, but this is still the U.S. and we have two little documents that make this kind of $#*&^ illegal - the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

And those two documents (and our adherence to them) is what sets us apart from nations like Iraq, North Korea, etc.

ready2fly · February 5th, 2003, 13:01

[ QUOTE ]
The 9/11 hijackers/murderers spent their last few nights in a strip club....SO what's YOUR point?

[/ QUOTE ]

Were they drinking? I'm safe in saying that Al Quaida's hate of women for anything other than sex is quite well documented - so, how was that out of Character?

I think we can agree that the 9/11 terroist do NOT repesent the Muslim religion as a whole. They were - E-X-T-R-E-M-I-S-T.

It's that kind of attitude that got the Muslim Pilot fired, chunk. That "well, if THOSE guys were Muslim - He MUST be a terrorist too" line of thinking.

JaceTheAce · February 5th, 2003, 13:12

Aaah.. well I think I was wrong saying that. That is very true - America is a non-discrimate country, at least we should strive to keep it that way.

BigD · February 5th, 2003, 13:50

Pilot 602,

Very well said, indeed!!!

Finally, something you and I agree on

February 5th, 2003, 14:50

I'm definitely not condoning the firing, but I know several practicing Muslims, well 6 Muslims, and they all drink. 4 are from Saudi Arabia and the other 2 or from Egypt. All moved with parents when children.

tonyw · February 5th, 2003, 15:21

This is crazy. I guess we better fire all white male pilots, too, especially those with a military background, because after all, that's Timothy McVeigh!

If we're not going to do that, then we should not be firing this guy. Islam is a huge religion, and 99 percent of the people practicing it do not advocate slaughtering the innocent, including the guy who got fired.

vipermcg · February 5th, 2003, 15:52

I seriously doubt an airline would fire a pilot JUST for practicing Islam. They must have had other reasons.

chunk75 · February 5th, 2003, 16:47

The Taliban's view of women was a negative one, but not one that allowed men to watch half-naked ones. You'll see a lot of religious folks "forget" their beliefs when not surrounded by peers that expect certain behaviors. It certainly isn't limited to Muslims.

I don't think a pilot should be fired JUST for being Muslim. I agree with viper...there has to be more to the story. If not, reinstate the guy!

Chunk

cime_sp · February 6th, 2003, 09:12

Considering the MASSIVE layoffs we are all well aware of, has it occured to anybody that this guy was fired because of budgetary concerns? Considering he was only a 7-month pilot this would put him at the ASS-end of the seniority list!

I think one of a few things is happening here (or a combination):
1) Although not stated in the article, this guy is going to try and sue for discrimination, defamation of character, emotional distress, you name it...and try to get big $$$

2) The media is sensationalizing this for a headline..."Pilot upset because he is layed off and wants his job back" doesn't exactly attract any attention!!!

3) He wants his 15 minutes....

flyboy03 · February 6th, 2003, 10:14

I agree totally with crim_sp on this one. I very seriously doubt than any business especially an airline would fire someone for religion or race. Airlines depend on the support of all countries, all races, all religions, and all nationalities, i really dont think an airline would shoot themselves in the foot bye firing this guy.

pilot602 · February 6th, 2003, 10:51

[ QUOTE ]
I very seriously doubt than any business especially an airline would fire someone for religion or race.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, and I'm sure Denny's served those Secret Service guys with the utmost in care and attention a few years back.

Or, Adam's Mark hotels didn't, within the past few years, lose a major discrimination lawsuit.

Or, (edit)University of Michigain's admissions standards aren't up for review by the U.S. Supreme Court. (This one is kind of the opposite of the above, but it still deals with unfair treatment based on race, color etc.)

Or ...

chunk75 · February 6th, 2003, 10:58

[ QUOTE ]

Or, Michigain State University's admissions standards aren't up for review by the U.S. Supreme Court.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought it was the University of Michigan.

jtrain609 · February 6th, 2003, 11:05

It is the University of Michigan. A bunch of other university's are tagging their names onto U of M's lawsuit because their policy's mirror Michigan's. But Michigan's admissions policy's go a lot deeper than what you're hearing on the news. Read through their admissions guidelines sometime and you'll understand what I mean (let's just say Michigan just opened up a pandora's box for college sports with this one). I was thinking of transfering there into their political science program so I read through all that crud a little while back.

Watch out mistaking Michigan and Michigan State, I think that could get ya shot in some parts of this state

Cheers

John Herreshoff

February 6th, 2003, 11:34

I was under the impression that all state schools had the same admission policies governed by a board of regents. This not true?

727PFE · February 6th, 2003, 12:03

I used to work for Trans States, they had 140 pilots on furlough when I left. Trans States is owned by an Arab, I think, Hulas Kanoda(sp)
TSA canned a bunch of pilots at that time.

jtrain609 · February 6th, 2003, 13:18

Not true here. I won't try to explain the system because I quite honestly don't have any idea that it's run. I do know that our state university system is not the same as every other state's. It's a state matter to figure out how they're going to run their university's and some chose to do it differently than others. There is a board of regents, but I think there are like 3 of them. Don't quote me, though.

Cheers

John Herreshoff

secretapproach · February 7th, 2003, 04:46

Hey John - An extra special hello to Kalamazoo, my home for four years. Please make a run to Sweetwaters on Stadium for me. Mmmmmmmm....Sweetwaters

[Ok I apologize that this isn't aviation related, but I've always had a special place in my heart for Kalamazoo (and for Sweetwaters' donuts).]

Ramsey · February 7th, 2003, 13:51

I am very disappointed at some the closed minded views that have been posted on this particular subject. I am sure that the same people that think all Muslims are bad do not realize that there are many Muslims protecting their freedoms by serving in our United States Armed Forces. These same Muslims have daily access to missiles, bombers and other weapons of mass destruction. These same Muslims meet at mosques on United States military bases around the world and worship the exact same Allah (Arabic for God) that Christians do. These same Muslims are fighting along side other soldiers of all religions and beliefs in our military.

The United States is a country built on diversity and acceptance and if anyone feels that discrimination is acceptable under certain, let alone any, circumstances needs to seriously take at look at themselves and the freedoms that these diverse people have provided them.

kel · February 8th, 2003, 05:59

I agree.

hellmuth · February 8th, 2003, 07:27

I agree with you, Ramsey, that it's very dissapointing that many people in the U.S. are as close-minded as they are. Unfortunately, however, the United States was not, as you stated, built upon acceptance. That is one myth that has to stop circulating before any of our social problems can be addressed. What about Slavery, the near eradication of the Native-Americans and the oppression of nearly all non-white Americans at one time or another (even white minorities have not been excluded-Irish, Italians, Greek, etc...)? Anti-Muslim sentiments are no surprise bearing in mind the history the U.S. has on it's shoulders.
Another bone I have to pick (although I REALLY know I'm opening a huge can of worms with this one), is that the military defends the freedom that U.S. citizens have obtained. I'm sorry if I am mistaken, but I simply don't see any of the wars in the past 50 years (maybe even in the entire American history) as defending the citizen's of America's civil rights (especially non-WASPS). I certainly know this is a very sensitive topic and don't want to offend anyone, but this is my point of view and I thought I'd share it. A discussion can't hurt, can it?

February 5th, 2003, 11:48	#1
kel Newbie Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: BOSTON,MA Posts: 12	pilot fired because he is muslim www.usatoday.com

February 5th, 2003, 12:23	#2
JaceTheAce Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 7,285	Re: pilot fired because he is muslim Here is the link: Federal officials say pilot fired because he is Muslim Under the special circumstances of Islam extremists, it was probably appropriate. But yes, they should give him back pay and after researching his background and find nothing should give him his job back.

February 5th, 2003, 12:25	#3
JaceTheAce Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 7,285	Re: pilot fired because he is muslim [ QUOTE ] Under the special circumstances of Islam extremists, it was probably appropriate. [/ QUOTE ] Oops...meant to say "Under the special circumstances of 9/11 and Islam extremists being behind the terror acts, it was probably appropriate."

February 5th, 2003, 12:35	#4
ready2fly Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: DFW Posts: 7,080	Re: pilot fired because he is muslim [ QUOTE ] Under the special circumstances of 9/11 and Islam extremists being behind the terror acts, it was probably appropriate. [/ QUOTE ] Sorry Jace - I'm going to disagree. Using your SAME logic then, what if the 9/11 attacks were committed by white-Christian Extremists (believe me -they DO exist)? Do all white-Christian pilots then deserved to be fired from their pilot positions. No questions asked? Think about that. You do NOT violate a persons Civil Liberties based on their religion, color.... anything. The airline has the burden of proof here. Seeing how most Muslm's don't drink - their reason for firing him is quite week.

February 5th, 2003, 12:54	#5
chunk75 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: FL Posts: 922	Re: pilot fired because he is muslim [ QUOTE ] The airline has the burden of proof here. Seeing how most Muslm's don't drink - their reason for firing him is quite week. [/ QUOTE ] The 9/11 hijackers/murderers spent their last few nights in a strip club....SO what's YOUR point?

February 5th, 2003, 13:00	#6
pilot602 Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: who haa Posts: 3,750	Re: pilot fired because he is muslim [ QUOTE ] Under the special circumstances of 9/11 and Islam extremists being behind the terror acts, it was probably appropriate. [/ QUOTE ] Zeig Hile, mien furor. Maybe in 1940's Germany this would be "appropriate," or the USSR between the late '40s and late '80s, but this is still the U.S. and we have two little documents that make this kind of $#*&^ illegal - the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. And those two documents (and our adherence to them) is what sets us apart from nations like Iraq, North Korea, etc.

February 5th, 2003, 13:01	#7
ready2fly Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: DFW Posts: 7,080	Re: pilot fired because he is muslim [ QUOTE ] The 9/11 hijackers/murderers spent their last few nights in a strip club....SO what's YOUR point? [/ QUOTE ] Were they drinking? I'm safe in saying that Al Quaida's hate of women for anything other than sex is quite well documented - so, how was that out of Character? I think we can agree that the 9/11 terroist do NOT repesent the Muslim religion as a whole. They were - E-X-T-R-E-M-I-S-T. It's that kind of attitude that got the Muslim Pilot fired, chunk. That "well, if THOSE guys were Muslim - He MUST be a terrorist too" line of thinking.

February 5th, 2003, 13:12	#8
JaceTheAce Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 7,285	Re: pilot fired because he is muslim Aaah.. well I think I was wrong saying that. That is very true - America is a non-discrimate country, at least we should strive to keep it that way.

February 5th, 2003, 13:50	#9
BigD Newbie Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 24	Re: pilot fired because he is muslim Pilot 602, Very well said, indeed!!! Finally, something you and I agree on

February 5th, 2003, 14:50	#10
Lurker Posts: n/a	Re: pilot fired because he is muslim I'm definitely not condoning the firing, but I know several practicing Muslims, well 6 Muslims, and they all drink. 4 are from Saudi Arabia and the other 2 or from Egypt. All moved with parents when children.

February 5th, 2003, 15:21	#11
tonyw Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: Maryland Posts: 15,166	Re: pilot fired because he is muslim This is crazy. I guess we better fire all white male pilots, too, especially those with a military background, because after all, that's Timothy McVeigh! If we're not going to do that, then we should not be firing this guy. Islam is a huge religion, and 99 percent of the people practicing it do not advocate slaughtering the innocent, including the guy who got fired.

February 5th, 2003, 15:52	#12
vipermcg Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: New York/ West Lafayette, IN Posts: 393	Re: pilot fired because he is muslim I seriously doubt an airline would fire a pilot JUST for practicing Islam. They must have had other reasons.

February 5th, 2003, 16:47	#13
chunk75 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: FL Posts: 922	Re: pilot fired because he is muslim The Taliban's view of women was a negative one, but not one that allowed men to watch half-naked ones. You'll see a lot of religious folks "forget" their beliefs when not surrounded by peers that expect certain behaviors. It certainly isn't limited to Muslims. I don't think a pilot should be fired JUST for being Muslim. I agree with viper...there has to be more to the story. If not, reinstate the guy! Chunk

February 6th, 2003, 09:12	#14
cime_sp Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: ATL Posts: 775	Re: pilot fired because he is muslim Considering the MASSIVE layoffs we are all well aware of, has it occured to anybody that this guy was fired because of budgetary concerns? Considering he was only a 7-month pilot this would put him at the ASS-end of the seniority list! I think one of a few things is happening here (or a combination): 1) Although not stated in the article, this guy is going to try and sue for discrimination, defamation of character, emotional distress, you name it...and try to get big $$$ 2) The media is sensationalizing this for a headline..."Pilot upset because he is layed off and wants his job back" doesn't exactly attract any attention!!! 3) He wants his 15 minutes....

February 6th, 2003, 10:14	#15
flyboy03 Newbie Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 21	Re: pilot fired because he is muslim I agree totally with crim_sp on this one. I very seriously doubt than any business especially an airline would fire someone for religion or race. Airlines depend on the support of all countries, all races, all religions, and all nationalities, i really dont think an airline would shoot themselves in the foot bye firing this guy.

February 6th, 2003, 10:51	#16
pilot602 Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: who haa Posts: 3,750	Re: pilot fired because he is muslim [ QUOTE ] I very seriously doubt than any business especially an airline would fire someone for religion or race. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, and I'm sure Denny's served those Secret Service guys with the utmost in care and attention a few years back. Or, Adam's Mark hotels didn't, within the past few years, lose a major discrimination lawsuit. Or, (edit)University of Michigain's admissions standards aren't up for review by the U.S. Supreme Court. (This one is kind of the opposite of the above, but it still deals with unfair treatment based on race, color etc.) Or ...

February 6th, 2003, 10:58	#17
chunk75 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: FL Posts: 922	Re: pilot fired because he is muslim [ QUOTE ] Or, Michigain State University's admissions standards aren't up for review by the U.S. Supreme Court. [/ QUOTE ] I thought it was the University of Michigan.

February 6th, 2003, 11:05	#18
jtrain609 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 12,100	Re: pilot fired because he is muslim It is the University of Michigan. A bunch of other university's are tagging their names onto U of M's lawsuit because their policy's mirror Michigan's. But Michigan's admissions policy's go a lot deeper than what you're hearing on the news. Read through their admissions guidelines sometime and you'll understand what I mean (let's just say Michigan just opened up a pandora's box for college sports with this one). I was thinking of transfering there into their political science program so I read through all that crud a little while back. Watch out mistaking Michigan and Michigan State, I think that could get ya shot in some parts of this state Cheers John Herreshoff

February 6th, 2003, 11:34	#19
Lurker Posts: n/a	Re: pilot fired because he is muslim I was under the impression that all state schools had the same admission policies governed by a board of regents. This not true?

February 6th, 2003, 12:03	#20
727PFE Newbie Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 10	Re: pilot fired because he is muslim I used to work for Trans States, they had 140 pilots on furlough when I left. Trans States is owned by an Arab, I think, Hulas Kanoda(sp) TSA canned a bunch of pilots at that time.

February 6th, 2003, 13:18	#21
jtrain609 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 12,100	Re: pilot fired because he is muslim Not true here. I won't try to explain the system because I quite honestly don't have any idea that it's run. I do know that our state university system is not the same as every other state's. It's a state matter to figure out how they're going to run their university's and some chose to do it differently than others. There is a board of regents, but I think there are like 3 of them. Don't quote me, though. Cheers John Herreshoff

February 7th, 2003, 04:46	#22
secretapproach Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Hollywood, FL Posts: 278	Re: pilot fired because he is muslim Hey John - An extra special hello to Kalamazoo, my home for four years. Please make a run to Sweetwaters on Stadium for me. Mmmmmmmm....Sweetwaters [Ok I apologize that this isn't aviation related, but I've always had a special place in my heart for Kalamazoo (and for Sweetwaters' donuts).]

February 7th, 2003, 13:51	#23
Ramsey Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Ramstein Air Base, Germany; LH 747-400 SIM Posts: 491	Re: pilot fired because he is muslim I am very disappointed at some the closed minded views that have been posted on this particular subject. I am sure that the same people that think all Muslims are bad do not realize that there are many Muslims protecting their freedoms by serving in our United States Armed Forces. These same Muslims have daily access to missiles, bombers and other weapons of mass destruction. These same Muslims meet at mosques on United States military bases around the world and worship the exact same Allah (Arabic for God) that Christians do. These same Muslims are fighting along side other soldiers of all religions and beliefs in our military. The United States is a country built on diversity and acceptance and if anyone feels that discrimination is acceptable under certain, let alone any, circumstances needs to seriously take at look at themselves and the freedoms that these diverse people have provided them.

February 8th, 2003, 05:59	#24
kel Newbie Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: BOSTON,MA Posts: 12	Re: pilot fired because he is muslim I agree.

February 8th, 2003, 07:27	#25
hellmuth Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Washington D.C. Posts: 72	Re: pilot fired because he is muslim I agree with you, Ramsey, that it's very dissapointing that many people in the U.S. are as close-minded as they are. Unfortunately, however, the United States was not, as you stated, built upon acceptance. That is one myth that has to stop circulating before any of our social problems can be addressed. What about Slavery, the near eradication of the Native-Americans and the oppression of nearly all non-white Americans at one time or another (even white minorities have not been excluded-Irish, Italians, Greek, etc...)? Anti-Muslim sentiments are no surprise bearing in mind the history the U.S. has on it's shoulders. Another bone I have to pick (although I REALLY know I'm opening a huge can of worms with this one), is that the military defends the freedom that U.S. citizens have obtained. I'm sorry if I am mistaken, but I simply don't see any of the wars in the past 50 years (maybe even in the entire American history) as defending the citizen's of America's civil rights (especially non-WASPS). I certainly know this is a very sensitive topic and don't want to offend anyone, but this is my point of view and I thought I'd share it. A discussion can't hurt, can it?

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