pilot fired because he is muslim

[JediNein]

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I simply don't see any of the wars in the past 50 years (maybe even in the entire American history) as defending the citizen's of America's civil rights (especially non-WASPS).

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I'll bite. WWII -- Germany and Japan declared war on us. Although we were protecting British ships in the early days of the war, US policy was we were neutral. Germany declared war on us and attacked our east coast. Many Navy ships were lost during that time. Civilians were doing more to protect the coast than our military. Then Japan attacked us, again without provocation. If we would have just sat back and let these two countries rape us, Japan and Germany would have fought each other on our soil, oops, their soil. Simply because we were the enemy we would be killed. Our military defended our freedom to be alive. After the war, we helped put these countries back on their feet! What victorious party has done that before?

Korea and Vietnam. My relatives, father and uncles, and grandmothers fought in these wars. Yes, they were wars, not snidely "conflicts." Again another country thinks they are the better and because of our treaties, in we go to defend the oppressed. Vietnam I personally think the US wasn't involved enough. If the powers-that-be weren't so d*** concerned about China, the entire Republic would be free. When we were there in South Korea, and North Korea was in kill mode, the South was so happy to see us. South Korea doesn't much care for us now. This time we should let the North takeover. Welcome to Communist re-education camps. If they let them live, they will either be brutally forced to accept the doctrine, or be killed. There's no trial, no freedoms, no allowed disagreement. Either participate fully or die. In either case, once the conqueror has a taste of victory, they want more and will soon be trouncing other third-world countries. Our military defended our freedom to think that other people should have the freedoms we enjoy.

I have a civil liberty to think and breathe. To be female and wear as sexy or as conservative of clothes that I like. To complain about Clinton, Democrats, the neighbors, and other government officials. I can be totally responsible for my own life and death. Whether I have McDonalds for lunch or live in a cold or warm environment. I can commit a crime and be treated better than some countries royalty while jailed, or get off on a technicality because some cop I beat up didn't read me my rights in my native language. I can be a bigot or give Mother Teresa a run for her sainthood, and it's ok. I can hate or love anyone. If I am hurt, I can sue. My lawyers will get the money, but that's a different story. I can read a liberal or a conservative newspaper. I can travel for days and not need to show my ID to anyone. I can fly for hours and not talk to anyone, but there is someone there if I need to.

Now two slimeball organizations want me (and you) dead. Terrorists and the government of North Korea. I’m interfering with their complete control of the planet. Hah hah. I'm alive. And that just makes their blood boil.

We'd never survive under their paranoid hatred. We know what freedom is.

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What about Slavery, the near eradication of the Native-Americans and the oppression of nearly all non-white Americans at one time or another (even white minorities have not been excluded-Irish, Italians, Greek, etc...)? Anti-Muslim sentiments are no surprise bearing in mind the history the U.S. has on it's shoulders.

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As a country, we generally don't sell people into slavery anymore. Some Native American tribes (Indians dabnabit!) are doing quite well with their casinos. The African tribes selling their spoils of war to us for slaves has mostly ceased. Yes, there is a black market in slavery and it would be foolish to deny its existence. We try to be tolerant and the media shoves it in our face the second one is not (You looked at me wrong! Mom! Make him stop. Wah!). We learn from our past, sometimes (Let's remove Sadam this time. Oh, war is bad, we should let him continue to harbor terrorists.) The extremes are "we the U.S. are perfect" and "we the U.S. are terrible and must be destroyed." Reality is somewhere in-between.

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but this is my point of view and I thought I'd share it. A discussion can't hurt, can it?

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And that is my point of view. Many of our military died to allow us the freedom to have this discussion.

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein

[junkstream]

This is actually a pretty inteligent conversation for a message board. Usually such conversations quickly head south, it's proof that this site is better than most and the folks on it are pretty sharp and mature.

However, I have to correct some misinformation from cime_sp and 727PFE.

Cime _sp says, "Considering the MASSIVE layoffs we are all well aware of, has it occured to anybody that this guy was fired because of budgetary concerns? Considering he was only a 7-month pilot this would put him at the ASS-end of the seniority list!"

Well, that's not really how the industry works. You're partly correct in that he would probably have lost his job, but NOT by way of termination. He would have been furloughed, in which case he would have maintained his seniority and longevity, he would not have a "termination" on his record. Most importantly, he would be back at work right now as the airline mentioned has recalled ALL furloughed pilots. A furlough, or "layoff" as you say, is entirley different than being fired.

727PFE: "I used to work for [the airline mentioned], they had 140 pilots on furlough when I left. [It] is owned by an Arab, I think . . . [They] canned a bunch of pilots at that time."

What? It's pretty well known by anyone that's been on property at the airline mentioned for more than two hours that the owner is Indian--not an "Arab." Especially anyone from your employment time frame (based on the number of furloughed pilots you mention) vis a vis the quite obvious past HoJo connection.

The airline mentioned did fire a group of about twenty pilots after 9/11. Those guys were not furloughed, but fired. Big but coming here . . . BUT, they were re-instated with their correct seniority and longevity and are ALL back at work. Shanif was not one of those pilots, his termination was different.

I am surprised at some of the cavalier attitudes about this. One person even said that the firing was "probably appropriate." Guys, this pilot is a citizen of the United States of America. A legal citizen, not here on a visa, but a CITIZEN. I cannot overstate that fact. Should DAL fire Doug because he's black? After all, the terrorists were of a dark complection.

I'll leave you with this. The EEOC finds reasonable cause in only 7.5% of race-based complaints. They did find reasonable cause in this case.

Good dialogue. Keep it up.

Take care everyone.