Flight Attendant Tried to Save Cypriot Plane

mpenguin1 · December 31st, 2005, 12:43

A flight attendant tried to save a Cypriot airliner that crashed near Athens earlier this year, wrestling with controls for at least 10 minutes before the Helios Airways flight went down, investigators said Monday.

Investigators Monday carried out a re-enactment of Flight 522 from Larnaca, Cyprus to Athens, to analyze the causes of Greece's worst air disaster.

Senior investigator Serafeim Kamoutsis said 25-year-old Cypriot flight attendant Andreas Prodromou entered the cockpit at least 10 minutes before the crash, while the plane was in a holding pattern and the pilots were unconscious or partially conscious.

"He tried to fly the plane manually as best as he could," Kamoutsis said, adding that it was too early to comment on how the automatic pilot was disabled.

Kamoutsis declined to say how investigators know the flight attendant tried to fly the plane. He said Prodromou, who had some pilot training, opened the cockpit door after entering the security code about 10 to 12 minutes before the crash.

http://www.airportbusiness.com/artic...&siteSection=3

subpilot · December 31st, 2005, 14:04

How hard would it be for a private pilot skill level pilot to land an airliner? 0% chance, 20% chance, ???

mpenguin1 · December 31st, 2005, 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by subpilot

How hard would it be for a private pilot skill level pilot to land an airliner? 0% chance, 20% chance, ???

If the Flight Attendant was able to have operated the radio & called for help, there could have been a good chance that they could have talked him down for a landing.

Without help, I will let the pilots answer that question.....

tonyw · December 31st, 2005, 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by subpilot

How hard would it be for a private pilot skill level pilot to land an airliner? 0% chance, 20% chance, ???

Let's put it like this. When we were in Vegas, I got to play in the sim, and I had the benefit of having a guy who's flown transport category aircraft sitting right next to me, coaching me.

I barely kept that thing from flashing red, which means you crashed.

Doug Taylor · December 31st, 2005, 15:19

It's not as much flying the aircraft as it is being able to go from a cruise configuration at .75 mach to a landing configuration at 140 knots in a position to safely land the aircraft somewhere near centerline and on glidepath.

Maximillian_Jenius · December 31st, 2005, 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

It's not as much flying the aircraft as it is being able to go from a cruise configuration at .75 mach to a landing configuration at 140 knots in a position to safely land the aircraft somewhere near centerline and on glidepath.

Whatever...man I could do that easy and blindfolded on MSFS..if I had it!

-Matthew

GrantHubbell · December 31st, 2005, 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by subpilot

How hard would it be for a private pilot skill level pilot to land an airliner? 0% chance, 20% chance, ???

Why don't you ask the guys at A.Net, they'll be able to tell ya!

Bigey · December 31st, 2005, 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantHubbell

Why don't you ask the guys at A.Net, they'll be able to tell ya!

Dude, not only have they had first had experience operating an aircraft, majority of them have a type rating in a 737, so it'll be no problem. Oh they also have their ATP!

MQAAord · December 31st, 2005, 18:31

In all honesty, speaking as both a flight attendant and private pilot, it would be TOUGH. Really tough.

If the F/A could remain calm enough to look around and make note of where everything is, get the radios functioning, and keep the distractions (other F/As, pax) at bay, it absolutely could be done, but I won't even hazzard a guess as to a percentage change for the probability of success.

I've flown the ATR & the ATR sim, and while flying is flying, there's so much more happening so much faster in an airliner. Both times I had fully competent coherent guys sitting next to me, and I did fine, but they were totally holding my hand the whole time.

If the need ever arose where I had to do such a thing, I'd do my best. But I'm certainly smart enough to know that it wouldn't be easy.

tonyw · December 31st, 2005, 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by MQAAord

If the need ever arose where I had to do such a thing, I'd do my best. But I'm certainly smart enough to know that it wouldn't be easy.

I just want to tell you good luck. We're all counting on you.

MQAAord · December 31st, 2005, 19:34

And don't call me Shirley

JayAre · December 31st, 2005, 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by subpilot

How hard would it be for a private pilot skill level pilot to land an airliner? 0% chance, 20% chance, ???

Piece of cake

OttoPilot

and

"QRH FMS/AP for Dummies"

BCTAv8r · December 31st, 2005, 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayAre

Piece of cake

OttoPilot

and

"QRH FMS/AP for Dummies"

Meant to be asked as a serious question, couldn't you bring the aircraft in for approach by using just the AP? In terms of speed, heading, altittude and etc.

caliginousface · December 31st, 2005, 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonyw

I just want to tell you good luck. We're all counting on you.

mtsu_av8er · January 1st, 2006, 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

It's not as much flying the aircraft as it is being able to go from a cruise configuration at .75 mach to a landing configuration at 140 knots in a position to safely land the aircraft somewhere near centerline and on glidepath.

Well, you know,I did hear that those sevum fifty sevums pretty much fly themselves!!

roundout · January 1st, 2006, 07:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by subpilot

How hard would it be for a private pilot skill level pilot to land an airliner? 0% chance, 20% chance, ???

during the time i was a primary student, i had the opportunity to spend two hours in a 757 sim and a lap in the pattern in a 777 sim at the american airlines training center (pre 9/11). i had the benefit of having a sim engineer in the right seat and a sim instructor in the back helping me out. the weather was perfect, and there was zero pressure. in this situation, and given that it was in simulators, flying the "airplane" and even landing it was cake. just like doug said, though, trying to get a real airplane out of cruise with the a/p on down from altitude when there is obviously a serious problem....forget it.

mpenguin1 · January 1st, 2006, 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Well, you know,I did hear that those sevum fifty sevums pretty much fly themselves!!

Well, if I remember correctly, Lloyd had a whee bit of trouble flying the 737 simulator in Vegas, didn't we crash?!?!

HA!

mtsu_av8er · January 1st, 2006, 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpenguin1

Well, if I remember correctly, Lloyd had a whee bit of trouble flying the 737 simulator in Vegas, didn't we crash?!?!

HA!

You guys failed everything but the wings!!! LOL . . .

Callous · January 1st, 2006, 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

It's not as much flying the aircraft as it is being able to go from a cruise configuration at .75 mach to a landing configuration at 140 knots in a position to safely land the aircraft somewhere near centerline and on glidepath.

I have tried this before in sims, and had structural failure several times. So Doug, or other typed pilots out there, how do you reduce speed from .75 mach and bleed off all the altitude?

Ummm, pls keep it simple, this is a PPL student asking.

tonyw · January 1st, 2006, 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Callous

I have tried this before in sims, and had structural failure several times. So Doug, or other typed pilots out there, how do you reduce speed from .75 mach and bleed off all the altitude?

Striker...if you do what I tell you, when I tell you to do it, there's no reason you shouldn't have complete confidence in your chances to come out of this thing alive and in one piece.

Chris_Ford · January 1st, 2006, 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Callous

Ummm, pls keep it simple, this is a PPL student asking.

Bring the power back?

December 31st, 2005, 14:04	#2
subpilot Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Afghanistan Posts: 681	How hard would it be for a private pilot skill level pilot to land an airliner? 0% chance, 20% chance, ??? __________________ Together We Served "Helicopters don't actually fly. They just beat the air into submission." -Firebird2XC

December 31st, 2005, 15:19	#5
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 40,240 Blog Entries: 1	It's not as much flying the aircraft as it is being able to go from a cruise configuration at .75 mach to a landing configuration at 140 knots in a position to safely land the aircraft somewhere near centerline and on glidepath. __________________ Doug Taylor http://76school.flyblog.com (old!) http://30west.flyblog.com (updated 11/28)

December 31st, 2005, 18:31	#9
MQAAord Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: The Looney Bin Posts: 9,043	In all honesty, speaking as both a flight attendant and private pilot, it would be TOUGH. Really tough. If the F/A could remain calm enough to look around and make note of where everything is, get the radios functioning, and keep the distractions (other F/As, pax) at bay, it absolutely could be done, but I won't even hazzard a guess as to a percentage change for the probability of success. I've flown the ATR & the ATR sim, and while flying is flying, there's so much more happening so much faster in an airliner. Both times I had fully competent coherent guys sitting next to me, and I did fine, but they were totally holding my hand the whole time. If the need ever arose where I had to do such a thing, I'd do my best. But I'm certainly smart enough to know that it wouldn't be easy. __________________ PPL SEL 100-ish hours TT Former American Airlines F/A (12 months) Former Simmons/Eagle F/A (6 years) Former Eagle ground school instructor (1 year) Former Eagle IOE instructor (3 years)

December 31st, 2005, 19:34	#11
MQAAord Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: The Looney Bin Posts: 9,043	And don't call me Shirley __________________ PPL SEL 100-ish hours TT Former American Airlines F/A (12 months) Former Simmons/Eagle F/A (6 years) Former Eagle ground school instructor (1 year) Former Eagle IOE instructor (3 years)

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