Delta, pilots reach interim deal

[stuckingfk]

Originally Posted by SteveC

Violence and intimidation are not acceptable. Period.

So war is unacceptable? Aren't you and living in the U.S. right now because of violence and intimidation?

Trust me, the last thing in the world I want is for people to get hurt. I'm not a violent person, but yes, I feel people need to be "more than just talked to" as to get their head out of their butt and do the right thing. I'm not condoning hurting other people, but good lord, if the current way things are done (like right now) aren't getting things done, what will?

[jrh]

Originally Posted by stuckingfk

So war is unacceptable? Aren't you and living in the U.S. right now because of violence and intimidation?

The freedom of an entire nation and a dispute over pay within a company are two TOTALLY different things.

[JEP]

Originally Posted by stuckingfk

So war is unacceptable? Aren't you and living in the U.S. right now because of violence and intimidation?

Trust me, the last thing in the world I want is for people to get hurt. I'm not a violent person, but yes, I feel people need to be "more than just talked to" as to get their head out of their butt and do the right thing. I'm not condoning hurting other people, but good lord, if the current way things are done (like right now) aren't getting things done, what will?

So which one is it? You're not violent, but people need more than a talking to. You don't condone it, but if things are working, what can you do?

(just playing devils advocate)

btw, when did this all occur? I cannot recall any of it from when I worked there during the last pilots strike. Then again, I may have just been oblivious as I was still working and the pilot were on strike.

[stuckingfk]

Originally Posted by JEP

So which one is it? You're not violent, but people need more than a talking to. You don't condone it, but if things are working, what can you do?

(just playing devils advocate)

btw, when did this all occur? I cannot recall any of it from when I worked there during the last pilots strike. Then again, I may have just been oblivious as I was still working and the pilot were on strike.

Just like some people not liking war, but know that is it a necessary evil. I don't have the answers, but something needs to change. Trust me, I'd rather exhaust a 1000 different possibilities that don't involve violence, but if it is needed, then it's needed.

jrh,

Yes it is different but not as much as you think. All we need are companies to keep taking and taking. They're laughing all the way to the bank. If they're never stopped, what do you think will happen next? I have bets on New Delhi Airlines flying from Ann Arbor MI to Gary Indiana.

This is a war, a war for the american working man/woman. Which, in my opinion, is a much greater concern than world affairs right now. I'm not just talking about pilots, but I'm talking about everyone losing jobs to cheaper labor in Mexico, India, etc.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by stuckingfk

So war is unacceptable? Aren't you and living in the U.S. right now because of violence and intimidation?

Nobody was talking about war. Don't change the subject.

Trust me, the last thing in the world I want is for people to get hurt. I'm not a violent person, but yes, I feel people need to be "more than just talked to" as to get their head out of their butt and do the right thing.

Maybe their idea of the "right thing to do" is not the same as yours. Are you espousing "might makes right"?

I'm not condoning hurting other people, but good lord, if the current way things are done (like right now) aren't getting things done, what will?

There are plenty of other ways to try to get people to agree with your viewpoint, or to act in a manner that you consider appropriate. Violence and intimidation are cowardly and barbaric, and do nothing to changes people's opinions. Those tactics will have the opposite effect, actually. If you want someone to be more determined in their opposition to you and your position, threaten them.

Strong-arm tactics are counter-productive, stupid, arrogant, immoral, illegal, despicable, contemptible, vile, ignoble, dishonorable, loathsome, disgusting and cowardly. People that employ those tactics are worse than scum.

[Doug Taylor]

Oh heck, people will flatten your tires at darned near any airline.

Besides, what company doesn't have a "Phantom Sh-tter" story or two?

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Oh heck, people will flatten your tires at darned near any airline.

Besides, what company doesn't have a "Phantom Sh-tter" story or two?

So are you condoning, condemning, or simply commenting?

[/alliteration mode]


.

[Doug Taylor]

Commenting, mostly.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Commenting, mostly.

Don't let my commentary above disuade you from publicly taking a position, if you are so inclined.

Note to all: just because I hold a strong opinion on this topic (not just this topic, but you know what I mean) doesn't mean that you all have to withold contrary comments. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, no matter how misguided.

I don't bite. Nibble a little, maybe...


.

[tonyw]

Originally Posted by SteveC

There are plenty of other ways to try to get people to agree with your viewpoint, or to act in a manner that you consider appropriate. Violence and intimidation are cowardly and barbaric, and do nothing to changes people's opinions. Those tactics will have the opposite effect, actually. If you want someone to be more determined in their opposition to you and your position, threaten them.

You don't have to break someone's kneecaps to express your anger and frustration at his position or viewpoint. There's a lot you can do to make someone miserable without having to resort to violence.

[mpenguin1]

Originally Posted by SteveC

Don't let my commentary above disuade you from publicly taking a position, if you are so inclined.

Note to all: just because I hold a strong opinion on this topic (not just this topic, but you know what I mean) doesn't mean that you all have to withold contrary comments. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, no matter how misguided.

I don't bite. Nibble a little, maybe...


.

Doug is married, so, I know that he is not scared.....

[flyover]

Originally Posted by tonyw

You don't have to break someone's kneecaps to express your anger and frustration at his position or viewpoint. There's a lot you can do to make someone miserable without having to resort to violence.

Very true. In some past disputes the goal was to destroy marriages and cause suicides. Very high level of integrity. But the targets asked for it.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by tonyw

You don't have to break someone's kneecaps to express your anger and frustration at his position or viewpoint. There's a lot you can do to make someone miserable without having to resort to violence.

True...but it gets their attention don't it!



-Matthew

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by SteveC

Don't let my commentary above disuade you from publicly taking a position, if you are so inclined.

I just got done with lunch so excuse my rambling logic, but here goes:

Well, I'm the last guy that would flatten someone's tires, but I think you have to look at the psychology behind the scenario, and follow the money.

Following the money meaning that the one with the deepest pockets is normally able to steer how an event is reported.

Say someone crosses a picket line, the story is probably going to get reported as a humble family man, trying to feed his family was violently cursed, harassed and intimidated as he crosses the union picket line.

That's the story that the company wants to get out.

But you'll never read a story about a scab telling the striking workers, "I don't give a damn about what you're striking over, I'm going to do your job, extend your strike and I could care less about any ramifications of it." But chances are, if the scab is able to keep his job, he'll be vociferous about shrinking benefits, decreased pay, etc eventually.

I'm not in favor of breaking a scabs kneecaps, but there certainly has to be some sort of penalty or a heightened sense of caution when strike breakers cross a legal picket line.

I gather that if I was on strike, and I saw a person crossing the picket line to perform my job duties, all bets are off.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

I just got done with lunch so excuse my rambling logic, but here goes:

Well, I'm the last guy that would flatten someone's tires, but I think you have to look at the psychology behind the scenario, and follow the money.

Following the money meaning that the one with the deepest pockets is normally able to steer how an event is reported.

Say someone crosses a picket line, the story is probably going to get reported as a humble family man, trying to feed his family was violently cursed, harassed and intimidated as he crosses the union picket line.

That's the story that the company wants to get out.

But you'll never read a story about a scab telling the striking workers, "I don't give a damn about what you're striking over, I'm going to do your job, extend your strike and I could care less about any ramifications of it." But chances are, if the scab is able to keep his job, he'll be vociferous about shrinking benefits, decreased pay, etc eventually.

I'm not in favor of breaking a scabs kneecaps, but there certainly has to be some sort of penalty or a heightened sense of caution when strike breakers cross a legal picket line.

I gather that if I was on strike, and I saw a person crossing the picket line to perform my job duties, all bets are off.

I like the phantom pooper that ##### (no pun intended) is funny as hell...unless your the target!



-Matthew

[jrh]

Originally Posted by stuckingfk

This is a war, a war for the american working man/woman. Which, in my opinion, is a much greater concern than world affairs right now. I'm not just talking about pilots, but I'm talking about everyone losing jobs to cheaper labor in Mexico, India, etc.

I put the problem in bold up above. Who are you to declare this war?

Why shouldn't we go break the kneecaps of those executives who laugh all the way to the bank? After all, that's the root of the problem, right? Why shouldn't we carry this over to other industries and have a bunch of pilots go attack some NYC transit workers?

I'm not even disagreeing that there's a problem. I'm just saying that there are many, many grey lines to the problem. The problem is far too complex for any single person to be declaring their own little war.