Finding another career

[Dreampilot]

Alright im back and ready for info,

I have really had the flying bug for a few years now and have recently discovered these airline forums and after reading these posts off of this site and others I just don't know if this career is headed in the right direction or pilots are just pissed off and don't know either. Is this industry really headed into the crapper or do you think it will get better or worse. I was thinking also about being a trooper for New york because the pay is excellent and you have good job security and maybe after I retire in 20 years I can start flying for the airlines...probably not tho. Just a dream. Let me hear what you think though. Thanks for listening.

PS. I just couldn't sit in an office all day pushing papers, I like be outside and active. Does anybody have an office job here and could shed some light on it.

[Sprint100]

Originally Posted by Dreampilot

PS. I just couldn't sit in an office all day pushing papers, I like be outside and active. Does anybody have an office job here and could shed some light on it.

My job is scheduled 9 to 5, but it is more like 24/7. I get tired of fixing/maintaining/implementing networks so I just look at it as the way to support my habit(s) and passion of flying.

[fsuflyer]

Go to a non-aviation college and major in something interesting/useful. For example, something science/engineering/computer related--these majors will make you think a little and will open up many doors if you decide against the airline industry. Screw poli-sci, business, etc....they are fluff majors and unless you are truely motivated in them, which you won't be if you're considering the airlines, you will get nowhere as they will be just as useless as an aviation degree.

Never go to college with the attitude that you are there just for a degree because you are going to be a pilot. This is the laziest excuse you will hear from many on these boards, and these poor people are generally the people that bitch about pay, etc. They have no options besides the industry--keep your options open!

Most of the industry right now is going down the crapper, but there are still a few good gigs out there such as cargo (ups/fedex), corporate, and fractional. Never rule out these options.

To fly, you do not need to be a professional pilot !! There are plenty of other careers out there that will allow you to fly as a hobby. If you fly professionally it will eventually become a job; It's inevitable as is obvious from the pros on these boards. Work hard and always keep your options open!! this is the best advice I can give...

Take what I have said with a grain of salt--I'm graduating from college this spring, have a couple med school acceptances, a biotech job offer, and have been admitted to grad school at harvard (not boa####l- just giving a perspective).

[jtrain609]

Political science, philosophy, sociology, english or any of the other liberal arts are wonderful pre-law programs, and are not fluff.

You CAN go to law school with an engineering degree, but you'll probably get your butt kicked from all the writing.

[fsuflyer]

Originally Posted by John Herreshoff

Political science, philosophy, sociology, english or any of the other liberal arts are wonderful pre-law programs, and are not fluff.

You CAN go to law school with an engineering degree, but you'll probably get your butt kicked from all the writing.

True, but you have far more options studying something science related... for instance, with my biochem degree I could go to med school, b-school, grad school, industry, LAW school, and even fly.... Go figure!

[C150J]

Originally Posted by fsuflyer

True, but you have far more options studying something science related...

That's quite a broad brush stroke. I think that there are many options on both ends of the sciences-humanities spectrum. What's important is you do what best fits you, which you also stated (and contradicted).


-J.
Ivy League graduate who majored in "fluff" yet is quite happy with the options he has.

[fsuflyer]

Originally Posted by C150J

That's quite a broad brush stroke. I think that there are many options on both ends of the sciences-humanities spectrum. What's important is you do what best fits you, which you also stated (and contradicted).


-J.
Ivy League graduate who majored in "fluff" yet is quite happy with the options he has.

Sorry, I didn't mean it like "that"--what i was trying to convey is that if you plan on flying professionally, a more liberal degree won't do much good if you put nothing into it. Many pro pilots have the idea that the degree is just a check box (which is true). However, it's useless without experience.

Like I said originally, take what I say with a grain of salt. It is possible to be happy in any field you are interested in, but for those unsure, it is safer to go the route with the most options. Personally, I don't like my eggs in one basket...I prefer options.

Just my opinion.

[C150J]

I agree with you in one sense -

If you're good at anatomy, you'll be golden in systems training for airplanes! Seriously, I think there's some truth to that, especially for people wondering if flying is right for them... if you can take a lung and break it all the way down to aveoli, you can certainly draw a schematic of a prop governor.

J.

[Chris_Ford]

Originally Posted by fsuflyer

Go to a non-aviation college and major in something interesting/useful.

Do not go to an aviation school and get an aviation degree. It's not worth the paper it's written on.

[B767Driver]

Originally Posted by Dreampilot

Alright im back and ready for info,

I have really had the flying bug for a few years now and have recently discovered these airline forums and after reading these posts off of this site and others I just don't know if this career is headed in the right direction or pilots are just pissed off and don't know either. Is this industry really headed into the crapper or do you think it will get better or worse. I was thinking also about being a trooper for New york because the pay is excellent and you have good job security and maybe after I retire in 20 years I can start flying for the airlines...probably not tho. Just a dream. Let me hear what you think though. Thanks for listening.

PS. I just couldn't sit in an office all day pushing papers, I like be outside and active. Does anybody have an office job here and could shed some light on it.

Well, I've always enjoyed every flying job I've ever had...if that helps you out any. It seems as though internet posters...are mainly negative. But I know many pilots from all facets of aviation who are very happy, motivated and interested in their careers. I used to fly learjets for a freight hauler. Some guys had been doing that job for 20 years making $80K. A lot of those guys just loved the job and really enjoyed it after beating boxes around in the middle of the night for 20 years. I also know guys who've run flight schools for 15 years and really enjoy that. Probably making about $60K doing that.

I also know lots of guys who are unhappy in their careers. Also, lots of people who are just unhappy in life.

All throughout my career, I've had a backup degree and plan and other interests. Fortunately, so far, I haven't had to use it...but I'm ready if I have to.

I would suggest for anyone with a passion for aviation to attempt to make a career of it. I would also suggest 1) to look at all facets of aviation and not just the airlines. Back in the 60's, 70's and 80's you had to have logged a moon landing to get an airline job...the easy airline jobs have just come recently. Before that...guys did all kinds of flying jobs and made careers of them. When I started flying, airlines did not hire civilian trained pilots, especially with corrected vision. I always thought I'd be flying a citation for an insurance adjuster. Then things changed. 2) Have a backup degree, certification, interest in the event that the aviation career gives you pause at some point. Chances are good during your aviation careers that you will be briefly or longer term unemployed. Be ready for those periods. 3) Whatever you do...do it to the best of your ability...if you don't...you are mostly cheating yourself personally and professionally.

[Texasspilot]

Good advice...If i had to choose something else to do it would be along the lines of law enforcement, fire fighting, emt. Something that serves a purpose and has some excitement in it.

Just wondering...have you started your flight training yet where are you at with it if you have.

[Philip]

I'm in the same boat, I need something interesting, but I'm in a bit of a niche and it's hard to find good jobs.
Plenty of small A/C mfr's around here, adams, ATG etc, but they're all hiring engineer types, which I'm not.
Maybe once the ole' MBA is done I can get a real job, but if anyone has suggestions I'm all ears

[averyrm]

I'd heartily recommend a busniess degree.

That said, I went to college with that idea but found out business (for me) was super boring. All I was being taught was common sense for the most part, and half the time I knew the material better then some of my profs. (I did learn accounting, however, which I thought was very useful).

I ended up a Psych major mostly focusing on the the physical aspect of perception and was happier with that as it was at least interesting. (Plus it was only 28 credit hours of psych to graduate). I also minored in Aerodynamics just for kicks.

I think that most any degree you get will get you into a decent job, and aviation really doesn't care about where you got your degree or what you got it in, at least from my limited experience.

And remember College isn't all about getting a 4.0, it's a great time if you let it be.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

Do not go to an aviation school and get an aviation degree. It's not worth the paper it's written on.

And what are you geting your degree in?

-Matthew

[Ophir]

Dreampilot, I'm sorry to say, but it sounds like you are making broad assumptions again. Your last topic was that pilots are too negative about their jobs. Now you are feeling that the prospects of a good career might not be worth it. But you haven't asked anyone about the comradery that exists between pilots, about the love of aviation that is there everyday and keeps us around, or if we really regret doing what we are doing. There is so much that is great about this industry, don't get too sour on it with out knowing more. And, if your dream is to fly, follow you dream.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

And what are you geting your degree in?

-Matthew

he's right, I have an aero. degree, and even from a state school it's flipping useless. i guess it's better than no degree at all, but not by much.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by Philip

he's right, I have an aero. degree, and even from a state school it's flipping useless.

I "know someone" who majored in history of all things in college and pulls in more than a senior narrowbody captain at a major writing proposals for a consulting firm. They also drive a new mercedes C320 paid for by the company, full benefits, pension, etc.

Before doing that they were in the Air Force, and receive an Air Force pension when he retired as a Lt. Colonel.

Prior to joining the AF, he worked on a farm picking peanuts...upon graduation his GPA was around 2.8 or so .

It's not what you major in, it's how you use your experience to go out there and find a job that suits you.

~wheelsup

[naunga]

Just some thoughts here, and I'll warn 'ya I'm feelin' a bit random so this might ramble in places.

First off forget all this crap about industry trends, hot jobs, etc, 'cause in the end that's all it is: crap!

Industry trends and the like are put together by some guy sitting in front of a computer crunching numbers. He isn't a pilot or whatever. He's a pollster. So all he knows is what other people tell him. Sure you see stuff on the news that says things like "the airline industry is in trouble" and it maybe, but until the FAA folds there will always be aviation jobs out there. Same is true with most anything else. I mean I'm going into the restaurant biz. Most restaurants fail within their first year. Typically it's a business reason. Not enough market research, a lack of planning, or something that causes them to fold. It's not because entire populations are deciding to stay home and cook dinner instead of going out.

What am I trying to say? Do what you like. Do something you can enjoy and can see yourself doing day in and day out for at least 10 years, and be realistic. Forget this whole notion of job security. No job is 100% secure, and believe me money isn't everything. Oh, but Naunga now you're being an idealistic dreamer. Hell yes I'm being an idealistic dreamer! I spent all of my time in school trying to please everyone BUT MYSELF. I worked to get good grades in school to make my teachers and parents proud, I went to college and majored in the things that would lead to good paying jobs, and they did. I have a good paying job, and for almost 10 years since college I've been miserable. So this BS that parents and other adults push off onto to kids about getting the "good job" is sooooo much BS, because 9 times out of 10 the "good job" isn't the job you want. It isn't the job that feeds your soul. It isn't the job that makes you a joyful person that people love to be around. It makes you a bitter, cynical, shell of a human being, and you spend your time looking out the window (if you're lucky enough to EVEN be in an office with a window) dreaming about all the things you would love to do. Trust me that isn't a life that is worth living.

But I digress...

The first thing that struck me about your post was that you said that you like to "...be outside and active". Now I'm not an airline pilot by any stretch, but last time I was on an airliner the pilots were sitting in two very cramped looking seats. They were hardly outside and active. If you like to be outside start there, and start your search.

But THINK about things realistically. I don't know how old you are, but I'm guessing you're rather young, and being young clouds our eyes more than we realize. Which isn't a bad thing, but I realize now after looking about over 15+ years to my junior high and high school days that what my parents, guidance counselors, teachers, Scoutmasters, etc were trying to get into my thick head was just that. The young see the world through optimistic eyes. Again I don't want to make this sound like a bad thing, just a caution from a former young person. Young people see their future careers as these incredibly fufilling activities. They see themselves coming home to their dream house, with their dream wife/husband/girlfriend/boyfriend, etc. They don't see the real. They don't see the day they come home from work and the water heater springs a leak, they don't see the day that the boss crushes their good idea by calling it "blue skying". They don't see. I'm not sure that they should see all of it, but you know I wish I could've seen reality when I was 15, hell when I was 21.

You know in someways the problem is that people say 15-22 are trying to hard to make career choices for "adult" reasons. That is they think that by choosing a career that is stable, good paying, secure, etc they're making a responsible choice. This is all well and good until they hit 30 or 40 and realize that they hate what they do. It brings them no joy. So then like me, you realize that you're not doing what you love and every morning it's a stuggle to get out of bed to go to your job.

Life is a journey and that even though I've taken detours on the way to get where we want to go it was worth it, but what I want you to take away from my post is that had I known 15 years ago that I had this passion for cooking that always manifested itself. If I could've seen that I loved cooking for my friends and family. If I could've seen that this was something I'd loved since I was all of 6. If I could've just seen what was in front of my face, I'd probably own at least two restaurants right now.

Instead I took the long way around. I considered engineering, but after a year of college and finally realizing that I HATE math, I decided to get into computer science, then after 3 more years of college, I started to realize that I hated what was waiting for me in the IT industry. Sitting at a desk. All day long. Dealing with BS users and doing the same task over and over again. Then I start to get into computer art, and then had a revelation that duh! artists spend large amounts of time SITTING in a chair sketching. And on and on I went...computer animation, architecture, medicine, veternary medicine, screenwriting, you name it I probably looked into it, and may have even committed to breaking into the industry. Meanwhile I'm cooking for everyone I can, and getting all kinds of kudos. I'm working at my "job" (you know the one, you say things like "oh this is JUST a job. What I really want to do is xyz") in the kitchen of the local college hang out. I'm spending weekends glued to cooking shows or reading cookbooks. There it is right in front of my face, but because I'm trying to be "responsible" I couldn't see the forest for the tree. The upside is that I've spent enough time looking into what I hate that I'm fairly certain about what I love.

Long and short of it is this: If you love to be outside and active. Then look for things that will take you there. Spend some time talking to people in jobs that interest you (like you're doing here...go on you!). Make sure you make sure they understand that you want a realistic picture. Not just the $3 tour. You talked about being a trooper in NY. Find one talk to. Find out how he spends a normal day. Take notes, then go home and look them over. Spend sometime putting yourself into his shoes.

The Navy used to have these ads out that asked, "if someone wrote a book about your life, would anyone want to read it?", but what's more important? If someone else finds your life interesting enough to read about? or if you find your life interesting enough to live? Personally I couldn't careless if anyone would want to read about my life, as long as I'm happy living it.

Hope that made some sense. I know I was rambling.

I wish you happiness and peace.

Naunga

[Sprint100]

Naunga does it again....Great post!!!!!!!!

[Dreampilot]

Originally Posted by Sprint100

Naunga does it again....Great post!!!!!!!!

Yeah Naunga,

that post was pretty deep and made me think.. not to get sappy. I agree with you totally. Life is way to short to sit inside all day just to make money. You might as well do something you absolutely love even if there are bad sides and aviation does have an ugly side but the fulfulliment some get out of it is worth the low pay. Besides if you are doing something you love then you will never work a day in your life. Great post!