Traffic Pattern

[jtsastre]

Since I’ve been flying a traffic pattern at my local airport a lot as I train for my private license, it made me wonder how much an airport’s traffic pattern is implemented into commercial flights (i.e. commercial jets) at major controlled airports? Are the commercial flights usually directed to the active landing runway from the beginning of their flight? Or are they ever required to enter the pattern at an airport depending on from which direction their coming? It seems, from the flights I have been on, that we seem to fly straight in to land. I appreciate any information anyone has on this. If the question is confusing, please specify which part I can clarify. Thanks

Jtsastre

[JaceTheAce]

Originally Posted by jtsastre

Since I’ve been flying a traffic pattern at my local airport a lot as I train for my private license, it made me wonder how much an airport’s traffic pattern is implemented into commercial flights (i.e. commercial jets) at major controlled airports? Are the commercial flights usually directed to the active landing runway from the beginning of their flight? Or are they ever required to enter the pattern at an airport depending on from which direction their coming? It seems, from the flights I have been on, that we seem to fly straight in to land. I appreciate any information anyone has on this. If the question is confusing, please specify which part I can clarify. Thanks

Jtsastre

Usually they're on an IFR flight plan so they'll fly them straight in. Airliners fly in Class A airspace which requires to be on IFR.

When you're doing your pattern practice you're flying VFR.

[ian]

but, i have been on a few comercial flights where we have done the downwind, base, and short final

[Baronman]

It is true that most airliners are on IFR flight plans and don't fly the same pattern that one might be accostumed to in a 172.

At major airports (let's say most Class B) alot of the traffic is directed onto either an ILS or a straight in visual. This is probably just due to the large volume of aircraft coming in.

At smaller airports in visual conditions it's common to get a visual approach. Again it might be straight in or if you're coming from the opposite direction you would fly a visual pattern much like you would in a Cessna with a downwind and a base-final. Of course it's a wider pattern cause you're going faster and you'll usually join the final further out, maybe that's why it seems they're going straght in.

[GreenDayPilot]

Originally Posted by ian

but, i have been on a few comercial flights where we have done the downwind, base, and short final

I guess that would happen if you fly into an uncontrolled airport, like SkyWest's flight to St. George, UT. However, I've never seen there Brasilia do anything but a straight in.

Usually Center/Approach takes care of lining up the big birds for a straight in landing. In LAX, you can see the line of airplanes for over 50 miles away. At night, it looks like all the planets are lit up and aligned.

[tripleseven]

Originally Posted by GreenDayPilot

I guess that would happen if you fly into an uncontrolled airport, like SkyWest's flight to St. George, UT. However, I've never seen there Brasilia do anything but a straight in.

I dont know but i've flown in to LAX a lot from SBA, SMX, and SBP and have noticed something in common with all the approaches. On clear days we fly over oxnard, then over santa monica. Looking out the right side of the plane we are on a right downwind to the north parallel runways at LAX. From there we continue downwind and turn downwind to base before the downtown skyline. Then we turn base to final. To me this seems like normal pattern entry. I could be wrong as it is probably a normal arrival procedure for the airport for arrivals from the west. Anyone familiar with this approach?

[GreenDayPilot]

Originally Posted by tripleseven

I dont know but i've flown in to LAX a lot from SBA, SMX, and SBP and have noticed something in common with all the approaches. On clear days we fly over oxnard, then over santa monica. Looking out the right side of the plane we are on a right downwind to the north parallel runways at LAX. From there we continue downwind and turn downwind to base before the downtown skyline. Then we turn base to final. To me this seems like normal pattern entry. I could be wrong as it is probably a normal arrival procedure for the airport for arrivals from the west. Anyone familiar with this approach?

Yeah, that is pretty typical, but it sure is A LOT wider than a C172 on pattern, haha

I THINK there's a visual approach plate that takes over Dodger Stadium and takes you around like a normal traffic pattern.

[GrantHubbell]

Originally Posted by tripleseven

I dont know but i've flown in to LAX a lot from SBA, SMX, and SBP and have noticed something in common with all the approaches. On clear days we fly over oxnard, then over santa monica. Looking out the right side of the plane we are on a right downwind to the north parallel runways at LAX. From there we continue downwind and turn downwind to base before the downtown skyline. Then we turn base to final. To me this seems like normal pattern entry. I could be wrong as it is probably a normal arrival procedure for the airport for arrivals from the west. Anyone familiar with this approach?

I think it is the Sadde Six STAR at KLAX. Not to sure though. I can say I have flown it online with MSFS. http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0511/00237SADDE.PDF

Also after the STAR, then it might be http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0511/00237STADIUM_VIS24LR.PDF the Dodger Stadium Visual approch as GreenDayPilot said.

Could somebody who flies into KLAX verify this please?

Thanks!

[GreenDayPilot]

Originally Posted by GrantHubbell

I think it is the Sadde Six STAR at KLAX. Not to sure though. I can say I have flown it online with MSFS. http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0511/00237SADDE.PDF

Also after the STAR, then it might be http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0511/00237STADIUM_VIS24LR.PDF the Dodger Stadium Visual approch as GreenDayPilot said.

Could somebody who flies into KLAX verify this please?

Thanks!

RIGHT ON! That's it!.... Ok, C'mon on, now Jtsastre... that is no where close to a standard traffic pattern... VFR vs IFR

[GrantHubbell]

A "real" traffic pattern:


(Question: You can overfly the field, and enter the pattern on downwind at a 45 degree angle correct? Or do you have to enter it only as shown on the diagram, or does it depend on the field?)

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by GreenDayPilot

I guess that would happen if you fly into an uncontrolled airport, like SkyWest's flight to St. George, UT.

I've been on United 757s doing a downwind-base-final pattern at DEN. Does that count as a commercial flight at a major airport?

[adreamer]

I have also been on NWA DC-9 on the long downwind, base, and final also.

[jtsastre]

Thanks for all the replies. I figured that most major airlines would be directed in such a way that they would fly straight in. I got into a discussion with my brother and he kept reiterating the fact that at major airports the traffic pattern seems to not exist, but I insisted that there might be an instance where it would be needed. But the whole difference between VFR and IFR makes sense; IFR would require a straight in approach, where a VFR flight one could enter in the patter.

It also makes sense that the traffic pattern for large jets would have to be a lot wider than a small 172, so it may feel like it’s a straight in approach rather than a pattern. Which makes me wonder even more whether they are actually in a pattern, or following a certain course to land.

Thanks again.

[ian]

Originally Posted by GrantHubbell

A "real" traffic pattern:


(Question: You can overfly the field, and enter the pattern on downwind at a 45 degree angle correct? Or do you have to enter it only as shown on the diagram, or does it depend on the field?)

you can cross mid-field and enter the pattern