To those of you with lots of complex time

[tonyw]

Do you ever stop being paranoid about the gear being down? I flew the Cardinal for the first time in a long time, and I did it solo today. I did the GUMPS check before I entered the pattern, and then I did it again on downwind, and I checked the gear light on base, and on final, and just before I crossed the threshold.

Paranoia perhaps, but I do not want to land gear up.

My question is, is this excessive?

[Philip]

I don't know that I have a lot of complex time, maybe 75-100 hours, but no, not really

[fender_jag]

Better safe than sorry.

[Baronman]

Considering it was your first time back in a complex plane in a while I don't think it sounds too obsessive. As long as you maintain good situational awareness entering the pattern and keep a good scan outside the aircraft I see no problem to glancing at the gear lights a couple of times. Lord knows there are tons of other guys out there staring at their attitude/altimeter/airspeed indicators constantly (in VMC).

Heck, I still check 3 green over the green in the RJ. Just an old habit, but if it were a CAT II approach I probably wouldn't be checking it other than on the checklist.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by tonyw

Do you ever stop being paranoid about the gear being down?

Gosh, I sure hope not. We're talking =good= paranoia here.

I understand most gear ups happen when something breaks your normal routine. Having multiple checks means that, hopefully, the one that gets missed because of the distraction has back-ups that don't get missed.

[JEP]

Originally Posted by tonyw

Do you ever stop being paranoid about the gear being down? I flew the Cardinal for the first time in a long time, and I did it solo today. I did the GUMPS check before I entered the pattern, and then I did it again on downwind, and I checked the gear light on base, and on final, and just before I crossed the threshold.

Paranoia perhaps, but I do not want to land gear up.

My question is, is this excessive?

While I don't have any complex time yet, I would say that it is not excessive. If for one second you think it might be, take a read of this:

NTSB Identification: ATL06LA014
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Friday, November 11, 2005 in Summerville, SC
Aircraft: Mooney M20M, registration: N43CW
Injuries: 1 Fatal, 1 Serious.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.
On November 11, 2005, at 1418 eastern standard time, a Mooney M20M, N43CW, registered to and operated by the private pilot, collided with trees, fell to the ground and burst into flames during an approach to land on runway 24, at the Summerville Airport, Summerville, South Carolina. The flight was operated under the provisions of Title 14 CFR Part 91, and visual flight rules. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed and no flight plan was filed. The pilot received serious injuries. the passenger received fatal injuries and the airplane sustained substantial damage. The flight originated from Waverly, Ohio, on November 11, 2005, at 1200 Central Standard Time.

According to witnesses, the airplane touched down on runway 06, with the gear retracted. The airplane was observed exiting a cloud of dust and climbing to about 500 feet. Witnesses said the airplane circled the runway to the left twice, and the pilot lowered the landing gear for an approach to runway 24. During the descent the airplane went into the trees and collided with the ground 500 yards from the threshold of runway 24. Witnesses telephoned the 911 operator, reported the accident, and proceeded to the accident site to give assistance.

[LostComm]

I'm pushing over 1500 hours of retract time and I still do a gumps check downwind, base, final, and maybe a quick glance at the wheel over my shoulder on short final. Heck, I do gumps checks in the Caravan!

When I'm training a pilot (for a rating or an upgrade) and I see that he (or she) isn't checking the gear, I'll pull the gear cb in concert with a distraction. At about 200 AGL (they're pretty committed to the landing at this point) I take the plane and fly down the runway, holding altitude.

They'll usually say something like, "What's wrong?" to which I reply, "You tell me."

The blood draining from their face is enough to get them to over check their gear, and to never remove their hand from the gear handle until the cycle is complete.

Excessive? Nope, not even close.

I also have a policy of leaving the gear down in the pattern unless doing gear specific training (complex endorsement or aircraft checkout).

But hey, that's just me...!

-LC

[FlyChicaga]

Set up an altitude above the field for the career check. Like 500 feet AGL.

"Gear three green, runway clean, cleared to land, career checklist complete."

[Grabo172]

Jep's accident he posted was just 8 miles from my house. I fly up to Summerville all the time.

I heard about this one the day after it happened.

As for gear checks for me... One when I put it down (usually abeam the numbers for the Saratoga), then again on base, then again turning final, and once over the grass ("Green over Green"). Can't be too sure!

[Chris_Ford]

Originally Posted by FlyChicaga

Set up an altitude above the field for the career check. Like 500 feet AGL.

Time to buy a radio altimeter. Saves the hassle of simple subtraction

[FlyChicaga]

Beware mountainous terrain and valleys though! Still gotta do the math. Sucks when you have a 900' deep valley 1/4 mile from the airport.

[tonyw]

Thanks, guys. I thought I was going nuts but it seems like everyone else checks it quite a bit too.

This is the first time I've gone up in the Cardinal in a while, because I've been flying with a purpose during all of the flights I've done recently. I've wanted to shoot this, that, or the other approach, or work on this that or the other. And there really was no need to fly this airplane to do those.

Today, it was a ah, the hell with it, let's go fly somewhere. And man, I tell you, that was FUN! The Cardinal is a fun airplane. Flying it just puts a smile on my face!

[Mavmb]

Checking the gear is a good thing. 2 kinds of pilots -- those that have had a gear up landing and those that will!

[Looking4Lower]

When I was in complex singles and twins, I did a GUMPS type check on downwind or upon entering the pattern, then I did an abbreviated "G-P-C" check on late downwind, base and final. Just a short little acronym that I made up for myself, but G-P-C is Gear, Power and Cooling. Gear down, Power set for go-around (props forward, mixtures rich), Cooling systems set for go-around (cowl flaps open, mixtures rich). I used GPC because it was short and easy to remember- It's a brand of cigarette. No, I'm not a smoker but I had friends who used to smoke them so I remembered the name and the acronym worked well.

I later ammended the acronym to GPCF- Gear, Power, Cooling, Flaps.

Never came close to forgetting the gear, * Knock On Wood *, so the technique worked for me.

[Looking4Lower]

Oh, have fun in the retractable Cardinal! Got about 70 hours in one of them - it's not as fast as it looks, but it's a great cruiser and it's nice 'n roomy!

[tonyw]

Originally Posted by Looking4Lower

Oh, have fun in the retractable Cardinal! Got about 70 hours in one of them - it's not as fast as it looks, but it's a great cruiser and it's nice 'n roomy!

Yeah, it's especially not as fast as it looks when there's a 30 knot headwind. That was funny. ATC says to me, say airspeed and I tell them, I'm doing 125 indicated. They say, okay, we're showing you as going about 95. I glance over at the GPS and say, yeah, that's about right, the wind is really blowing! And I thought to myself, you know, if I were doing this in the 172, my groundspeed would be like, oh, 70?

Of course, coming back, I had a groundspeed of about 155 so that was fun.

It's just a fun airplane to fly. Takes a little getting used to, and you've got more things to worry about, but when you get it up there, it's just, fun!

Yeah, yeah, guys. Laugh all you want.

Dude thinks he's going fast at 155 knots? Hah, that's my approach speed.

[Philip]

always thought the cardinal was a beautiful airplane, some day I'll take one up.

[CFIse]

Originally Posted by tonyw

My question is, is this excessive?

Hard to tell - the only way to really find out is to gradually reduce your vigilance, then when it takes full power to taxi you reduced it just too much.

Better safe than sorry, it only takes one gear up to ruin your whole career.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by JEP

While I don't have any complex time yet, I would say that it is not excessive. If for one second you think it might be, take a read of this:

Based only on reading it, those unfortunate death and injuries were not the result of a gear up landing. They were the result of a pilot trying to take off again after a gear-up touchdown.

If you hear that scraping, accept it.

Checking the gear is a good thing. 2 kinds of pilots -- those that have had a gear up landing and those that will!

Nope. There are 3 kinds of pilots -- those that have had a gear up landing,those that will, and those that use checklists.

[Looking4Lower]

Originally Posted by tonyw

Yeah, yeah, guys. Laugh all you want.

Dude thinks he's going fast at 155 knots? Hah, that's my approach speed.

I didn't mean it like that!

It's a sleek looking plane, especially with the gear up, and it looks like it might do around 150 true instead of the 120's. I think it's because it has such a thick wing to house the spar, since there are no struts.

[Doug Taylor]

I don't think it's excessive at all. I still do a highly-modified "GUMP" check in the -88. It's more of a "FGS" - flaps, gear, spoilers, at 1000 feet and at 500 feet again, even the after the "before landing" checklist is done. I'll physically tap the gear handle, look at the green lights, make sure the flap handle is locked down in the landing flap config, doublecheck the position indicator and feel that the spoiler handle is armed and the "notch" is up.