Logging IFR time...

rickyrhodesii · November 26th, 2005, 00:48

Sorry for a silly question, but here it goes...

If you're filed on an IFR flight plan and you're flying in VMC you wouldn't log the time as Instrument, right?

Now what if you're filed on an IFR flight plan and you're still in VMC but you're above a ceiling...how would you log this time?

Thanks!

Philip · November 26th, 2005, 00:50

if you're on an IFR plan and flying with the hood on in VMC, then simulated IFR.

if you're on an IFR plan and it's VMC, you're flying VFR.

If you're on an IFR plan and you're on top, it's VFR to me.

Doug Taylor · November 26th, 2005, 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickyrhodesii

If you're filed on an IFR flight plan and you're flying in VMC you wouldn't log the time as Instrument, right?

Wrong.

Quote:

Now what if you're filed on an IFR flight plan and you're still in VMC but you're about a ceiling...how would you log this time?

Total time, VMC.

Philip · November 26th, 2005, 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Total time, VMC.

Oh come on, he had to pop through the layer, there's .1 right there

FlyOrDie · November 26th, 2005, 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip

Oh come on, he had to pop through the layer, there's .1 right there

Just remember that any following layers do NOT equal another .1

Philip · November 26th, 2005, 01:01

Who's gonna know

FlyOrDie · November 26th, 2005, 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip

Who's gonna know

Said the man with 666 posts.

FAA spies are everywhere dude.

Philip · November 26th, 2005, 01:09

Why can't you log any subsequent time in IMC as actual instrument?

I was always under the impression that an IFR flightplan + IMC always = actual.

Doug Taylor · November 26th, 2005, 01:10

Devilboy!

Barlow · November 26th, 2005, 01:44

How about for Instrument currency requirements? Let's say you have been filing and flying IFR flights, and these flights have provided you with the 6 approaches and a hold and the intercepting and tracking of navaids within the last sicx months...BUT...it was in VMC conditions...will you remain instrument current?

JEP · November 26th, 2005, 01:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barlow

How about for Instrument currency requirements? Let's say you have been filing and flying IFR flights, and these flights have provided you with the 6 approaches and a hold and the intercepting and tracking of navaids within the last sicx months...BUT...it was in VMC conditions...will you remain instrument current?

The approaches must be done under actual or simulated conditions. If it is VMC and you are "under the hood", that would qualify as simulated conditions.

jsb172 · November 26th, 2005, 05:23

Look, IFR time is that your only reference to staying upright is your instrument panel. If I can cover up your instruments and you can look out the window and still fly straight and level that is VMC. If you can't navigate or stay oriented by looking out your window, you are IMC

MidlifeFlyer · November 26th, 2005, 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickyrhodesii

If you're filed on an IFR flight plan and you're flying in VMC you wouldn't log the time as Instrument, right?

That is correct. In order to log instrument time, you must be flying in (actual or simulated) conditions that require you to fly solely by reference to instruments to keep upright.

Quote:

Now what if you're filed on an IFR flight plan and you're still in VMC but you're above a ceiling...how would you log this time?

Same answer. If you need the instruments to stay upright, you may log the time as instrument time. So the answer depends on what kind of ceiling and whether you are a competent VFR pilot. After all, pilots may legally operate above a ceiling under VFR.

rickyrhodesii · November 26th, 2005, 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsb172

If you can't navigate or stay oriented by looking out your window, you are IMC

Okay, this is what i was getting at...you're filed on an IFR flight plan and you're still in VMC but you're above a ceiling...How are you navigating? It wouldn't be pilotage...so any other method would require you to navigate off your instruments. Would this still not count as instrument time?

Philip · November 26th, 2005, 11:34

nope, sorry. Hence the clearance "VFR on top"

tonyw · November 26th, 2005, 11:55

If there's the phrase VFR anywhere in the flight time, it's probably a real good indicator that it's not instrument time.

rickyrhodesii · November 26th, 2005, 13:03

okay...thanks for the clarification JCers!

jrh · November 26th, 2005, 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickyrhodesii

Okay, this is what i was getting at...you're filed on an IFR flight plan and you're still in VMC but you're above a ceiling...How are you navigating? It wouldn't be pilotage...so any other method would require you to navigate off your instruments. Would this still not count as instrument time?

Instrument time, as defined by the FARs, requires that you be flying off "sole reference to the instruments." That means both navigating and controlling the plane.

Just because you're using instruments to navigate doesn't mean you're flying off of sole reference to the instruments.

If I would get disoriented if I stopped scanning the instruments, I log it as instrument time. If I could stop looking at the instruments and just look out the window, and still keep the plane under control, it's not instrument time.

casey · November 26th, 2005, 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickyrhodesii

Okay, this is what i was getting at...you're filed on an IFR flight plan and you're still in VMC but you're above a ceiling...How are you navigating? It wouldn't be pilotage...so any other method would require you to navigate off your instruments. Would this still not count as instrument time?

dead reckoning?

as other posters have said, logging instrument time is based on the conditions, not the method of navigation. Whether you are IFR or VFR is irrelivant. If you are in a cloud or obscured horizon (ie, you are having to rely on the AI) call it actual. If you are under the hood with an appropriatly rated safety pilot, call it simulated. If neither of these things are true, its not instrument time!

November 26th, 2005, 00:48	#1
rickyrhodesii Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Southwest Asia... Posts: 406	Logging IFR time... Sorry for a silly question, but here it goes... If you're filed on an IFR flight plan and you're flying in VMC you wouldn't log the time as Instrument, right? Now what if you're filed on an IFR flight plan and you're still in VMC but you're above a ceiling...how would you log this time? Thanks! __________________ Rick

November 26th, 2005, 01:10	#9
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,087 Blog Entries: 1	Devilboy! __________________ Doug Taylor http://76school.flyblog.com (old!) http://30west.flyblog.com (updated 11/28)

November 26th, 2005, 11:55	#16
tonyw Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: Maryland Posts: 15,593	If there's the phrase VFR anywhere in the flight time, it's probably a real good indicator that it's not instrument time. __________________ http://www.photo.net/photos/tonywang for my photos

November 26th, 2005, 13:03	#17
rickyrhodesii Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Southwest Asia... Posts: 406	okay...thanks for the clarification JCers! __________________ Rick

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November 26th, 2005, 00:50	#2
Philip Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: KAPA Posts: 1,580	if you're on an IFR plan and flying with the hood on in VMC, then simulated IFR. if you're on an IFR plan and it's VMC, you're flying VFR. If you're on an IFR plan and you're on top, it's VFR to me.

November 26th, 2005, 01:01	#6
Philip Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: KAPA Posts: 1,580	Who's gonna know

November 26th, 2005, 01:09	#8
Philip Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: KAPA Posts: 1,580	Why can't you log any subsequent time in IMC as actual instrument? I was always under the impression that an IFR flightplan + IMC always = actual.

November 26th, 2005, 01:44	#10
Barlow Newbie Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 19	How about for Instrument currency requirements? Let's say you have been filing and flying IFR flights, and these flights have provided you with the 6 approaches and a hold and the intercepting and tracking of navaids within the last sicx months...BUT...it was in VMC conditions...will you remain instrument current?

November 26th, 2005, 05:23	#12
jsb172 Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 62	Look, IFR time is that your only reference to staying upright is your instrument panel. If I can cover up your instruments and you can look out the window and still fly straight and level that is VMC. If you can't navigate or stay oriented by looking out your window, you are IMC

November 26th, 2005, 11:34	#15
Philip Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: KAPA Posts: 1,580	nope, sorry. Hence the clearance "VFR on top"