ASA Pilots ROCK!

Doug Taylor · January 10th, 2003, 13:51

The following is an excerpt from a Delta ALPA brief that may help our furloughed pilots:

ASA Preferential Hiring
The MEC passed a resolution of appreciation for the ASA MEC's support of hiring furloughed Delta pilots without requiring them to resign from the Delta seniority list. The MEC also directed the Chairman to seek an agreement with Delta management that provides for the preferential hiring of ASA pilots at Delta and the preferential hiring of furloughed Delta pilots at ASA.

Comair pilots pretty much told us and our furloughed pilots to more or less "pack sand".

Always a cold beer in the fridge for an ASA pilot at the Taylor family hogan.

eodfe · January 10th, 2003, 13:56

That's OUTSTANDING!

Baronman · January 10th, 2003, 14:43

i think you meant "hogar" doug!! Time to get a spanish spell check!!

jdflight · January 10th, 2003, 16:39

Actually, Doug is correct. A hogan is a small mud brick home, similar to adobe, used in large part by southwestern Native Americans. And were I an ASA pilot, I would love to share a cold one in the Taylor hogan.

vipermcg · January 10th, 2003, 21:44

Wouldnt this end up hurting ASA? Once Delta starts to recall its furloughed pilots, ASA will loose a bunch of people in a short time. Woudldn't they rather pay to train pilots that will work there for 5 years, rather than 1-2?

A320_DUDE · January 10th, 2003, 22:03

[ QUOTE ]
Wouldnt this end up hurting ASA? Once Delta starts to recall its furloughed pilots, ASA will loose a bunch of people in a short time. Woudldn't they rather pay to train pilots that will work there for 5 years, rather than 1-2?

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe that why CMR didn't go along with the whole preferential hiring deal. Plus I heard the CMR MEC did want the scope relaxed(or completely scrapped by some accounts) which might have put a knife in any deal. Also I heard (I don't know how true this is so don't flame me) that the CMR pilots don't want the furloughed mainline guys to come to Comair and vote for something that would benifit mainline and not the Comair pilots. There is a whole 4 page thread on this and another 5 page thread on RJDC at FlightInfo. It really makes for interesting reading. In any case it looks like more whipsawing by DL mangement......I truly hope the DL/CMR/ASA pilot groups get together and work things out

I_Money · January 11th, 2003, 00:47

I think the experience they gain that these guys bring, the attention they get, etc will all help them out in the long run. People will look highly at this airline for their taking the high moral ground, and show they are concerned about others, this does more for them then you would ever imagine.

Doug Taylor · January 11th, 2003, 02:34

I think ASA did a fantastic thing by supporting preferential hiring for Delta furloughs.

I've got pilots that I'm sponsoring that have been furloughed since October 2001 that appreciate the gesture by ASA and it will be remembered once things turn around at mainline.

The concept was simple. Preferentially hire Delta furloughs and we'll reciprocate by preferentially hiring ASA pilots that want to jump to mainline when things turn around.

It's unfortunate that the Comair group decided to throw a bunch of unreasonable stipulations and then tell us to "hit the road".

Besides, it wouldn't hurt because DELTA bears all of the costs for training and subsequent attrition due to re-hiring at mainline.

Personally, I have a very long memory.

Alaskaairlines · January 11th, 2003, 03:23

Thats excellent! But that pretty much closes the door to new pilots with 1500 or so hours, I would think? Doug anything to say about that?

Vref · January 11th, 2003, 09:10

In regards to hurting the 1500 hour pilots, lets think about the big picture here. The airline industry isn't at its best time right now. If I was management and I had a chance to have delta pilots sitting in my seats or 1500 hour guys from a small regional or a cfi program I know who I would choose.

The fact is, those of us who have been in the industry for a bit of time have had good times and bad times. This is the industry in which we joined. When I was hired to my first big regional airline I had 3400 hours (now its about 1100 hours)and was the youngest guy in the system. That resulted in 6 months airport ready reserve in LAX. Things moved on quite well from there, so I was fortunate to get a job flying for someone with bigger jets and paycheck. This is how it works. It's all about timing and the luck you have on your journey. We have all had 1500 hours at one time, and can appreciate the position and desire you have to move ahead in the industry, but unfortunately market forces dominate.

Sadly, as jobs get tighter the less qualified will be left out. The Delta guys are fortunate to have this back up and vice versa for the opportunity it might give ASA guys. As Far as the 1500 our guys, keep the faith and eventually it will work out. It sucks when your just about there and the carpet gets taken away, but please remember those guys who are going to ASA have been on this road for quite some time. Good times are ahead, you just have to sit back and wait for your time.

I apologize to those who might not like my thread, but eventualy you will see that an agreement like this is a benefit to all pilots in the industry.

Ophir · January 11th, 2003, 10:13

[ QUOTE ]
I've got pilots that I'm sponsoring that have been furloughed since October 2001

[/ QUOTE ]

What does it mean to sponsor pilots Doug?

Doug Taylor · January 11th, 2003, 10:48

Well there are about four furloughed Delta pilots that I keep in contact with to check up on. Basically if they have specific questions, I'm a point of contact.

It's actually a pretty depressing job. I'm sponsoring one of my best friends who got furloughed -- generally he's a extrememly talkative and gregarious pal, but being on furlough and not being able to find suitable employment (or any at all actually) has taken a gigantic effect on his personality.

Things are ugly in the industry, but I think they were uglier back in the early 1990's.

averyrm · January 11th, 2003, 15:18

Was it the pilots at Comair that were against hiring the furloughed pilots or managment? I'd hate to see pilots get blamed for a crappy managment decision...

Scorpio11982 · January 11th, 2003, 15:42

I'm sure it was the Pilots....

Doug Taylor · January 11th, 2003, 16:14

The Comair MEC is still pissed about the Delta scope clause so we were pretty much told to get lost until we wanted to talk about scope relief and some other issues.

So, yup, the pilots. But only some of them.

averyrm · January 11th, 2003, 20:21

Check sounds pretty craptastic to me - btw what's said scope clause?

Kingairer · January 11th, 2003, 22:09

Santa's brother

FlyChicaga · January 12th, 2003, 10:48

Pretty sad that the Comair pilots are acting this way. My best friend's boyfriend is currently at CAA, and thinks he will be at Delta in 5 years (no degree mind you). I think he needs a reality check. Not only will he not be there in 5 years with the current state of the industry (not to mention NO degree!), but the Comair pilots just screwed themselves over BIG time.

Kudos to ASA. Although still part of the RJDC (ASA is), pretty classy thing to do for Delta pilots, I must say.

Doug Taylor · January 12th, 2003, 11:13

Actually, a lot of the ASA pilots are helping us fight the RJDC which is cool.

aloft · January 12th, 2003, 21:27

Refresh my memory: what's so cool about limiting the growth potential of other pilots' careers? With the current health of the industry, the regionals might be the final stop for career changers like me.

chrisdahut1 · January 12th, 2003, 21:37

I think Aloft makes a valid point. I wouldn't want to see the majors crippled further, and I don't want to take sides on something I know little about. I certianly would love to be sitting at a major some day. But seeing as regional pay is now at a reasonable level and rising along with the fact that they fly better equipment, what makes major pilots think all regional pilots want to move up to the majors? Therefore if regional pilots are being selfish with the whole RJDC thing by trying to destroy the majors, aren't the major pilots being just as selfish trying to limit regional growth? I'm not trying to start any flame wars or heated arguments over this, but it seems to me that BOTH sides have solely their own interests in mind. And reading some of the threads on Flightinfo, both sides appear to be trying to make themselves look more righteous then the other.

Doug Taylor · January 12th, 2003, 22:05

Nah, on second thought, do a search in the forums on the topic.

I thought about going back into it, but considering that I've watched one of my best friends turn from a gregarious, fun loving guy to a semi-depressed person who's lost all hope after he got furloughed, you've got to be kidding to think that I'm going to have any sympathy for the RJDC, who is suing me and my fellow pilots during the absolute most abyssmal time that I've seen in professional aviation.

I like how I'm holding the RJDC's career back when I'm getting booted out of DFW because of massive mainline cuts.

Get real.

A320_DUDE · January 12th, 2003, 23:06

[ QUOTE ]
But seeing as regional pay is now at a reasonable level and rising along with the fact that they fly better equipment, what makes major pilots think all regional pilots want to move up to the majors?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that is also part of the whole problem. A lot of those CMR guys DON'T want to go the mainline Delta, they would rather stay at CMR and drive RJs. Also a lot of those guys hold a lot of resentment toward the mainline pilots. They also want one combined senority list based on date of hire....the mainline MEC says a stapled list is the only way it would happen, which would put CMR guys on the street. So I totally understand them not wanting to agree to that. What people don't realize is that it is CMR company policy that a fuloughed pilot has give up their senority number....that not something decided on by the MEC or the pilots...that a mangement decision. Comair also has a policy to give preference to any furloughed ALPA pilot...but again your seniority number must go if hired. I totally understand that too....furloughed USAir/American Eagle/Mesaba pilots flying for CMR gave up their numbers...as people are fond of saying "rules are rules". I'm not trying to be a jerk...but myself I would like to fly for CMR eventually....but I have no intention of going to mainline DL,nothing personal...but I really don't think I would fit in there. If I don't make it to the airine that I want...I rather stay at CMR. So I can see how those pilots feel.

H46Bubba · January 13th, 2003, 01:05

I feel for those guys out there who are furloghed and are trying to get a flying gig, either temporary or permanantly. But on the other hand, the reason Comair has sustained its steady pilot hiring, post 9/11, is due to not having a flow through agreement with Delta. Look at Continental Express and American Eagle. Both have flow through agreements. When it was time to furlough mainline guys the junior Regional guys got furloughed to make room for the furloughed mainline guys. Comair is just trying to protect itself and it's pilots. They don't want to be put out by fulrloughed mainline Delta pilots. Comair also utilizes its academy to fill F/O postions. I don't know how Comair Avition Academy would stay profitable without having a bunch of there instructors hired. Maybe I'm perceiving this agreement wrong. I also don't want to start any arguments or flamewars over this. Everyone has there own feelings over the matter of Comair's refusal. Doug and other Delta Pilots, have the right to feel how they feel and Comair Pilots have the right to feel they way the feel. If I were a Comair Pilot, I know I'd do anything to protect my wellbeing. If I was a fuloughed pilot, and I needed a job to feed my family, I wouldn't hesitate to drop my seniority number if offered a job. Hopefully soon the tides will turn and the airline industry will get back on it's feet and hiring will be on the rise for everyone. That might be wishful thinking, but hey ya got to believe in something!

Doug Taylor · January 13th, 2003, 08:48

Ok, we never asked for a flowthru with Comair. It was pretty simple, if you support preferentially hiring a furloughed pilot without resigning his seniority number, we'll reciprocate when things turn around.

The ASA leadership said "sure", Comair leadership threw a bunch of stipulations and pretty much told us to get lost.

Here's the worst part of this thread. The whole situation pisses me off so incredibly that I'm once again closing the thread.

Why? This website is largely a volunteer effort and this is a highly emotional issue for me that I've had to explain at least 4 times over the past year and this just isn't the website for yet another grudgefest when it comes to this topic. Nope, not in my house.

Before I get email about "ack! my freedom of speech is being violated", make sure you at least review it before calling the ACLU. In fact, I'll even give you the telephone number.