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| | #1 |
| Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Utah
Posts: 44
| My CFI asked me to tell him the requirements for ARROW. Airworthiness Certificate Registration Radio License Operating Manual Weight and Balance He wants the requirements for each one (what it is, how long it lasts, etc.) I cannot for the life of me seem to find this information. I have the Jeppesen Private Pilot Manual and cannot find it in the index. I have looked through the FAR's. Really I am not this stupid, but I can't seem to find the requirements. Does anyone know the FAR's on these? I would really appreciate it if someone could point me in the right direction. Thanks. P.S. Anyone ever heard of A TOMATOE FLAMES. Could use some help on that one too. Thanks. |
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| | #2 |
| Senior Member | I understand that A TOMATO FLAMES is a large acronym for items that must be operating in order to fly. Sorry I can't help you more. |
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| | #3 |
| Old Skool Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 2,078
| TOMATO FLAMES is for the equipment that must be on the aircraft and working in order to fly in day VFR conditions. ARROW is the documents that must be on board the aircraft in order to fly. I belive you'll find the information you are looking for in the PHAK chapter 7. Give that a look and let us know if you have still have questions. |
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| | #4 |
| Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Winchester, VA (OKV)
Posts: 260
| Airworthiness Certificate - Good as long as all other inspections are kept current (Annual, ELT, Pitot/Static, 100 hour if used commecially Etc.) Registration - Good until the plane is sold - a new registration is filled out as part of the sale process Radio License - Not required for domestic flight - It is good for 10 years from date of issue, and the FCC sends a renewal reminder prior to expiration. International flights also require the pilot to have a Restricted Radiotelephone Operators Permit which does not expire and is also a requirement for some Airline jobs. Operating Manual - If it's legible and complete it's OK Weight and Balance - Must be updated when equipment is added or removed but no expiration. |
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| | #5 |
| Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: Denver Colorado
Posts: 2,970
| Airworthiness certificate and Registration requirements are in FAR 91.203 Radio station license - your CFI may be living in the past. The requirement for a radio station license on board domestic flights disappeared many years ago. The current version of the acronym is AROW. Operating limitations. Check out FAR 91.9 Weight and balance. Hmm. This one is a little complicated. It depends on the airplane. This is my FAQ on it: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ You won't find a specific regulation that says that the weight and balance numbers must be on board. I've seen the issue bandied about some on various forums. I'll offer the collected wisdom (?) of those discussions. There are two primary sources of the requirement. 1. If you remember your 91.213 airworthiness analysis, ultimately, whether a piece of equipment is required or not is based, at least in part, on the airplane's Type Certificate Data Sheet . In some cases, not all, the TCDS contains language like: ============================== Current weight and balance report including list of equipment included in certificated weight empty, and loading instructions when necessary, must be in each aircraft at the time of original certification and at all time thereafter... ============================== So, the presence of the weight and balance data is as much an airworthiness requirement as operating fuel gauges. But not all aircraft have this requirement on the TCDS. 2. 91.9(b) contains the requirement for the presence of systems information on board. (The reference to 21.5 is a reference to the requirement for an approved manual (AFM) after 1979) 23.1581 - 23.1589 talk about what the contents of an approved AFM manual must contain. 23.1589 says: ============================== Loading information. The following loading information must be furnished: (a) The weight and location of each item of equipment that can be easily removed, relocated, or replaced and that is installed when the airplane was weighed under the requirement of § 23.25. (b) Appropriate loading instructions for each possible loading condition between the maximum and minimum weights established under § 23.25, to facilitate the center of gravity remaining within the limits established under § 23.23. [/ QUOTE ] ============================== Read them together and you get, an airplane must have its manual on board and it's manual must contain weight and balance data. I think that there are some airplanes that still slip through the cracks but, like a lot of shorthand expressions for learning things, AROW covers the general rule. There are always exceptions. |
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| | #6 |
| Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Venice, FL
Posts: 183
| FAR 91.205 Required equipment--day, VFR (your Tomato Flames acronym) |
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| | #7 |
| Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,952
| A - altimeter T - Tach O - Oil Pressure M- Manifold pressure (if constant speed prop) A - Airspeed T- Temperature (water temp on liquid cooled engines) O - Oil temp F - Fuel Gauges L - Landing gear position indication (on retractables) A - anticollision light (not always required) M - Magnetic compass E - ELT if required S - seatbelts |
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| | #8 |
| Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Most of the time in the air
Posts: 7,329
| Don't forget the "M" in MARROW...there is a slight chance that the DE could ask you that on the checkride, even though you probably won't be seeing an MEL for a long time...unless your flight school has them. |
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| | #9 |
| Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: Denver Colorado
Posts: 2,970
| [ QUOTE ] TOMATO FLAMES is for the equipment that must be on the aircraft and working in order to fly in day VFR conditions. [/ QUOTE ]TOMATO FLAMES is for a severely limited group of some of the equipment that must be on the aircraft and working in order to fly in day VFR conditions. |
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| | #10 |
| Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Most of the time in the air
Posts: 7,329
| I'd also recommend not relying on "Tomato Flames" exclusively as it could screw you over if you are put "on the spot" with an airworthiness question on your checkride oral. It's not fun having to remember what each letter means in the acronym unless you have a pen and paper handy. Try to remember visually on the instrument panel your basic needed instruments for VFR flight, then Tomato Flames as a backup. |
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| | #11 |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 1,021
| A-airworthiness (plane pretty much comes out of the factory with an airworthiness certificate which is good for the life of the aircraft as long as all the required inspections and other maintenance issues are complied with: AVIATES acronym then comes into play) R-registration (similar to a car's registration) R-radio operators license(not neccesary for domestic flight) O-operators handbook(basically the POH with the operating limitations, performance charts and graphs, etc...) W-weight and balance(typically find this along with the operators handbook for newer aircraft. from what I've been told the operating limitations and W&B used to be two seperate things back in the day, as to say they weren't comibined together nicely into one "book") |
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| | #12 |
| Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Above Colorado
Posts: 90
| Great information on this topic.. Also, I just wanted to add. The O stands for Operating limitations not Operation handbook. The POH does provide some of the limitations, but operating limitations may also be in the form of plackards in the airplane. Not all aircraft are required to have a POH aboard. |
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| | #13 |
| Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Utah
Posts: 44
| Thanks for all the help. |
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| | #14 |
| Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: Denver Colorado
Posts: 2,970
| [ QUOTE ] I'd also recommend not relying on "Tomato Flames" exclusively as it could screw you over if you are put "on the spot" with an airworthiness question on your checkride oral. [/ QUOTE ]I go further that that. An informal survey I've done over a few years strongly suggests that people who learned the firey tomato mnemonic were more likely to get an airworthiness question wrong than those who never heard of it. |
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| | #15 |
| Old Skool Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 2,078
| [ QUOTE ] Great information on this topic.. Also, I just wanted to add. The O stands for Operating limitations not Operation handbook. The POH does provide some of the limitations, but operating limitations may also be in the form of plackards in the airplane. Not all aircraft are required to have a POH aboard. [/ QUOTE ] ![]() Thank you! That is a huge pet peve of mine, but it was late and I didn't want to get into it last night. |
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| | #16 |
| Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: from CO in tulsa, ok
Posts: 232
| [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Great information on this topic.. Also, I just wanted to add. The O stands for Operating limitations not Operation handbook. The POH does provide some of the limitations, but operating limitations may also be in the form of plackards in the airplane. Not all aircraft are required to have a POH aboard. [/ QUOTE ] ![]() Thank you! That is a huge pet peve of mine, but it was late and I didn't want to get into it last night. [/ QUOTE ] .......again. I think that is something a lot of us are "mis-taught" until we get a stage check or checkride that clears it up. ![]() |
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