Anywhere else to get money?

[joel_MQY]

So Sallie Mae only wants to give me $20,000 - we all know that is not enough. Key Bank won't approve any school around here. Is there anywhere else to get money for Flight Training?

[SteveC]

[ QUOTE ]
Is there anywhere else to get money for Flight Training?

[/ QUOTE ]
A job works pretty darn well. Don't have to pay them back and it doesn't cost you any interest. Just takes time and effort.

[PhilosopherPilot]

[ QUOTE ]
Is there anywhere else to get money for Flight Training?

[/ QUOTE ]

In Georgia we have many ways of getting money... (Besides Fulton Industrial Blvd)

http://www.georgiadefenders.com/theft.types.htm

G

[joel_MQY]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is there anywhere else to get money for Flight Training?

[/ QUOTE ]
A job works pretty darn well. Don't have to pay them back and it doesn't cost you any interest. Just takes time and effort.


[/ QUOTE ]

Not to get too snappy here, but I don't appreciate that Steve. It is called having a family and a mortgage. I usually have about 120+ hours on my pay check to make a living. Is that effort for you? Is that enough time? Sometimes supplemental loans are needed to reach a goal. That is what my question was. This is a forum for leadership in Flight Training isn't it? Or was this peanutgallery.com?

Not to completely go after you, Steve. It's just it was two up and two down as far the replies.

[PhilosopherPilot]

Sorry man. I was just joking around. Honestly I don't know of any sources other than private loans.

G

[SteveC]

[ QUOTE ]

Not to get too snappy here, but I don't appreciate that Steve. It is called having a family and a mortgage. I usually have about 120+ hours on my pay check to make a living. Is that effort for you? Is that enough time? Sometimes supplemental loans are needed to reach a goal. That is what my question was. This is a forum for leadership in Flight Training isn't it? Or was this peanutgallery.com?

Not to completely go after you, Steve. It's just it was two up and two down as far the replies.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I won't take it personally if you won't, OK?



I think I'll wait until tomorrow to elaborate further on my post.

[FatBastard]

Try to find a flight school that may get you your ratings at that price might work for you, or if you need a degree, that may be a source by going to college.

[Kingairer]

What wont 20,000 get you? 200 hours at $100 an hour, that should get most of your ratings right there. After that you can get the money while CFIing.

[scoobs]

You can easily get your rating close to 20,000.

[RABIRZA69]

[ QUOTE ]
So Sallie Mae only wants to give me $20,000 - we all know that is not enough. Key Bank won't approve any school around here. Is there anywhere else to get money for Flight Training?

[/ QUOTE ]

refinance your home

[SteveC]

[ QUOTE ]
So Sallie Mae only wants to give me $20,000 - we all know that is not enough. Key Bank won't approve any school around here. Is there anywhere else to get money for Flight Training?

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me try rewording my response.

I think loans are a bad idea as a way to pay for flight training.

First off, loans are just a bad deal from an overall monetary standpoint. If someone borrows $40,000 with a ten year payback, they will be giving the lending institution somewhere between $10,000 and $15,000 for the privilege of using their money.

Secondly, they are adding debt at the very time that they can least afford it. Someone starting out in the piloting profession is not going to be making very much money for the first few years, and adding a $400 or $450 dollar monthly payment ($40,000 loan, 10 yr payback, 5-6% interest) onto the debt load at that point could be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Here is a quote from another thread that was posted just last night: "I did the Key Bank loan and although the 6-month deferment was great, my parents ended up helping out when the repayment started. I just don't think a $250+ loan payment is doable on a $1000-1200 monthly salary."

If you watch these boards long enough you will see plenty of inquiries about second jobs for CFI's or FO's. My thought is that if someone is going to need a second job to pay for the cost of flight training, isn't it better to make the sacrifices before rather than after, since earning the money before hand will save $15,000?

Thirdly, I think that a limited offer from a lending institution should be a warning to take a serious look at one's financial ability to pay back a larger loan amount than lender is willing to offer. Unless Sallie Mae is a unique lending agency, they are not in the business of giving money away without a pretty confident expectation of getting that money back, plus some. They expect to be paid back with interest. Their whole existence is based on that premise. If they won't give someone more than $20K, then I presume that they don't think that that person will be able to pay back a larger loan amount based on their income potential (and a whole bunch of other factors as well). That should be a red flag. If a lending institution doesn't think that someone can afford a bigger loan, they are saying that because of past history with other people in very similar situations.

(As an aside, I'm sometimes surprised that more people don't question why there are only two lending institutions in this country that routinely give loans for flight training. Most banks and lenders just love to find new ways to loan people money so they can make more off the interest, so why aren't they lining up at the door to give pro-pilot-wannabes loans? 'Cause the odds aren't good enough for 'em, me thinks.)

Anyway, Joel, my apologies if my original response came off as a personal attack or commentary on your situation. I don't know your situation. But yes, I am a founding member of the peanut gallery.



I see one of the prime purposes of this website to be to educate up and coming pilots about the different options available on how to reach their goals. Thus all the discussions about the pros and cons of different academies, academies vs. FBOs, and PFJ discussions. I think that there needs to be more discussions about the good points and bad points of financing training as well, and I hope that more of the CFIs and regional FOs will chime in with their experiences in that area as time goes on.

[mtsu_av8er]

In Joel's defense, I will say that some people truly may not have a choice.

When I did my initial training, I was married, in The Marine Corps and with a child. There was NO WAY I was going to pay for it with "a job". I had to get student loans (Stafford) with my G.I. Bill to cover the costs.

Not taking sides, just saying that sometimes it takes more than waiting tables at night to cover flight training.

Would you suggest, Steve, that somebody just "get a job" to pay for medical school or law school? If not, why should they have to do it for flight training? By the time you figure in college, it's just as expensive.

[TheWife]

I don't know exactly how grants work with flight training vs college, but everyone I have talked to said it should work the same, especially if you are in college at the same time. But try to apply for some grants, my sister got $4K a year and if there is leftover money, you get to keep it.

[SteveC]

I just think people should be aware of all of the ramifications before jumping in and taking on a load of debt.

I don't have a problem with someone deciding that is the way they want to go, as long as they are fully aware of what they are getting into. It's kind of like the youngsters reading the ads in the magazines that think the big school flight academies are the only way to get to an airline job. You and I know that the academies are not the only way, but if someone does there homework and learns about alternate paths to the airlines, then decides they'd rather spend the money and go the academy route - no problem for me.

Same with taking out loans. I don't think that loans are a good deal, but if someone really does their homework and decides that the added cost is acceptable to them, and has a pretty good understanding of how they are going to pay them back on a limited income, then I say go ahead and knock yourself out. My problem is that too many people don't really understand money management and what the burden of debt can do to them over time, and get in over their heads unnecessarily.

Are loans a necessary evil? I suppose for many situations they are. I would just rather that people look at them as a last resort, not as the accepted route. I've seen too many people get way over their heads in debt (including plenty of doctors and lawyers by the way), and I've seen the heartaches and nightmares that it can cause.

Maybe I sound like I'm picking on people, but that is not my intention. Information is power, and the more informed people are, the better decisions they can make. This is just one of those topics that always makes me crawl onto my soapbox, and I often don't realize that people think I am talking about their specific situation rather than just ranting about the topic in general.

Besides, like my dad always tells me, "free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it."

[SharkFisher]

Hey Joel,
I am actually having the same problem, and keybank does not offer loans to my flight training school either. I am very surprised that Sally Mae offered you 20K! That makes me feel better because, I heard somebody getting turned down by them because he requested 30,000. But, I believe that, it is more than enough money to get most of your ratings done. Atleast it should get close to obtaining the CFI ratings. Then you can probably work as a full-time CFI and earn money to get your other ratings, like multi engine etc. That's my plan. Hope this helps. Just remember, there are some people who wouldn't get approved for 20,000, and I am glad you did. Good luck with your flight training. If I were you, I would start immediately and worry about the money later. You already got most of it! Yes I do understand Steve's point, he has given me some advise about not getting loans. I agree with him 100%, so I am trying to borrow as little as I can, and pay them off as soon as I can. Don't take it the wrong way...

[kellwolf]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know exactly how grants work with flight training vs college, but everyone I have talked to said it should work the same, especially if you are in college at the same time. But try to apply for some grants, my sister got $4K a year and if there is leftover money, you get to keep it.

[/ QUOTE ]

The few grants and scholarships available for flight traingin are HIGHLY HIGHLY competitve. Think college grants and scholarships and multiply that by at least 10 on a competition scale. Plus, they normally aren't that much. Southwest had a scholarship for employees wanting to do flight training and eventually fly for Southwest. You had to write an essay and send in a resume, and it was sponsored by the PHX based pilots. Not sure how many people applied, but four people from my station sent in our apps, and all four of us got "thank you, but you were not awarded the scholarship" letters, and that was just for $1000.

[FlyNavy]

[ QUOTE ]
refinance your home

[/ QUOTE ]

He's right, if you have any equity (or even if you have very little considering the appreciating housing market these days) there are many creative ways you could re-fi and use the cash for flight training. For example, if you have 50K of equity you could refinance, take the cash for flight training, and consider an interest only mortgage to keep the payments low, or perhaps a 3 - 5 year adjustable rate to keep your monthly payments down while your income is low. Then, your "loan payments" are going toward an appreciating asset that you get to live in and the interest is tax deductible! If you have owned the house for 2 years or more, this might be something to think about.

[joel_MQY]

Hey, Steve, all is good, brother. Again, sorry if I jumped on you. I understand what you are saying about loans, and agree about knowing the full ramifications. (I am a huge follower of Dave Ramsey.)

Honestly, after seeing the advice from this thread I might just take the $20k and run. I mean, I only care to get my CFI. I have no desire to fly for an airline....yet.
I want to fully develop my love of flying before I make that call. And I go back for a 1-on-1 interview with SWA this July for a Flight Attendant position.

[triplec76]

Or take that one step further and refinance the house to buy a 150 or older 172. If you could afford to make ends meet on maint, insurance, fuel and instruction you would come out further ahead at the end than just renting wet w/instruction.

[av8trxx]

http://flighttraining.aopa.org/learntofly/financing/
http://www.faa.gov/education/grant.cfm
http://www.wca-intl.org/NBAASch.htm
http://www.wolf-aviation.org/scholar.htm

http://www.avscholars.com/AvScholars...ning/index.htm

[Callous]

I'm going to be starting my actual flight training through a local FBO here in KSLC starting in August. I will be using a combination of money from work (I also have a family), and money from school loans from my graduate program. I'm planning on trying to finish my ratings in 1 year, then working as a CFI while I finish my second year of my grad program.

If that doesn't work, then I might get my ratings over the next year, then drop my grad program and move to AK to do bush flying/CFI up there where there is a little more work (supposedly).

I dont have anyone to give me money, or even cosign either. My walls are covered with pictures of planes though, and i'm studying all the time for the groundwork portion of the curriculum so that I will be able to concentrate on flying.

Just remember to keep your eyes on the prize. Decide now that nothing will stop you. So what if it eventually takes you 3 or 4 years instead of 2? At least you fought your way out of cubicle prison in only 4 years. I would recommend the movie Count of Monte Cristo (the new version). It's really the same thing, just that most of my peers dont see any way out, whereas I am digging a little each day. There is light at the end of this tunnel.

Yours,