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June 21st, 2005, 14:16
| #1 |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 362
|  American West pilots angry as talks near back in the forefront again in the local news.. Bumpy start to deal: American West pilots angry as talks near [ QUOTE ] America West pilots union chairman J.R. Baker said yesterday that he had "deep concern" about the company's willingness to protect America West's pilots from job losses or pay cuts in the event of a US Airways merger, which still faces a number of hurdles before it becomes final. Along with clearing regulatory and bankruptcy-court approvals, the two airlines must be able to integrate their work forces smoothly while solving the thorny issue of seniority. A large gap in the respective ages of the two employee groups makes a problem-free transition less likely. The process "will not be without bumps," said Elise Eberwein, a [/ QUOTE ] |
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June 21st, 2005, 14:21
| #2 |
| Agent Smith  | Re: American West pilots angry as talks near I'd be pissed too. AAA (USAir) is a very senior pilot group. Chances are, the most junior FO is senior to most of HP's (America West) senior captains and both airlines have talked about a combined fleet reduction. Methinks it's going to be a long, hot summer in PHX until management starts talking about job security. |
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June 21st, 2005, 14:51
| #3 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: KPHX, KFFZ, KIWA
Posts: 18,796
    | Re: American West pilots angry as talks near You think that if this issue isn't resolved and resolved rather quickly that the proposed merger might derail? I mean it is a major point of contention. I would think that they (America West/US AIRWAYS) have to prove to the bankruptcy judge the viability of the newly combined company. A major labor dispute pre-merger is definately not going to look good for the companies future. So I would think that it'd be in the companies best interested to resolve this issue and quickly! -Matthew |
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June 21st, 2005, 17:03
| #5 |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 479
| Re: American West pilots angry as talks near Why does management even need to be involved. The smart thing for management to do is to stay out of it. Let the two pilot groups figure it out for themselves. That way they have no one but themselves to blame if things go wrong. |
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June 21st, 2005, 17:14
| #6 |
| Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: KPHX, KFFZ, KIWA
Posts: 18,796
| Re: American West pilots angry as talks near Thats like a parent seeing their two kids getting ready to fight. One with a bat in there hand the other with a sharp object their hand and thinking the "victor reaps the rewards." The merger was a managemt decision not a labor decision so they are the ones that need to settle the impending melee. -Matthew |
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June 21st, 2005, 23:38
| #7 |
| Administrator  Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark
Posts: 6,897
| Re: American West pilots angry as talks near Oh this news story is a big surprise.......like no one could see this coming.  But wasn't it just a little bit ago that the talking head CEOs that, during the news conference on the day of the announcement, were saying something like "this will be the smoothest......", or something like that. Here's one of my previous posts on the subject: [ QUOTE ] I was listening to talk radio and they were playing the clip from when the two respective CEO talking heads were making their presentation...."...we're putting together the best management team in history with this merger". Call me a skeptic, but what management team put US Air where they are now? Not to mention America West, and it's federal and state bailouts? BTW, according to the America West pilot's union, the transition for the pilot side, should be "smooth".............. [/ QUOTE ] |
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June 21st, 2005, 23:44
| #8 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: May 2002 Location: Maryland
Posts: 15,323
| Re: American West pilots angry as talks near But, but, but, Mike, don't you know? This merger will create revenue synergies that will allow the combined entity to compete in the new reality that exists today and will allow the new company to leverage its assets to create shareholder value! |
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June 22nd, 2005, 00:23
| #10 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Left Seat
Posts: 5,482
| Re: American West pilots angry as talks near [ QUOTE ] ...that he had "deep concern" about the company's willingness to protect... [/ QUOTE ] Somebody is taking their CRM stuff a little too far. I talked to an FA for AWA who said they were being told that most of the cutting will be taken care of with natural attrition. Can't say I see that one happening. Also, it's looking like Mesa is going to get slammed if this goes through. Ethan |
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June 22nd, 2005, 01:05
| #11 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 4,783
| Re: American West pilots angry as talks near I'd be pissed too. If someone came up behind me and said, "Bend over, son." Then you heard the sound of a zipper, and couldn't do a damm thing about it. |
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June 22nd, 2005, 01:16
| #12 |
| Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: KPHX, KFFZ, KIWA
Posts: 18,796
| Re: American West pilots angry as talks near [ QUOTE ] I'd be pissed too. If someone came up behind me and said, "Bend over, son." Then you heard the sound of a zipper, and couldn't do a damm thing about it. [/ QUOTE ] Speaking of that... [ QUOTE ] Also, it's looking like Mesa is going to get slammed if this goes through. [/ QUOTE ] Care to expound on that thought Bobdduck. Cause I would think that MESA would benefit form the merger. -Matthew |
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June 22nd, 2005, 01:16
| #13 |
| Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark
Posts: 6,897
| Re: American West pilots angry as talks near [ QUOTE ] I'd be pissed too. If someone came up behind me and said, "Bend over, son." Then you heard the sound of a zipper, and couldn't do a damm thing about it. [/ QUOTE ] At JC Vegas after too many drinks......"Bend over, son"....  |
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June 22nd, 2005, 02:46
| #14 |
| Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 4,783
| Re: American West pilots angry as talks near Ha, figures. Fly single pilot enough in a foreign country, and this is what happens folks. |
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June 22nd, 2005, 02:53
| #15 |
| Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark
Posts: 6,897
| Re: American West pilots angry as talks near [ QUOTE ] Ha, figures. Fly single pilot enough in a foreign country, and this is what happens folks. [/ QUOTE ] Nice!  |
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June 22nd, 2005, 03:28
| #16 |
| Old Skool  | Re: American West pilots angry as talks near [ QUOTE ] Why does management even need to be involved. The smart thing for management to do is to stay out of it. Let the two pilot groups figure it out for themselves. That way they have no one but themselves to blame if things go wrong. [/ QUOTE ] You mean like they did with American/TWA? Anytime two airlines merge, there are always problems..... TWA/Ozark, American/Reno, US Air/Piedmont, are just a few, always problems, each & every one of them. |
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June 22nd, 2005, 03:35
| #17 |
| Old Skool | Re: American West pilots angry as talks near [ QUOTE ] You think that if this issue isn't resolved and resolved rather quickly that the proposed merger might derail? I mean it is a major point of contention. I would think that they (America West/US AIRWAYS) have to prove to the bankruptcy judge the viability of the newly combined company. A major labor dispute pre-merger is definately not going to look good for the companies future. So I would think that it'd be in the companies best interested to resolve this issue and quickly! -Matthew [/ QUOTE ] Matthew, easier said than done, a merger between two airlines is a nightmare for everybody on both side of the fence. Senority is everything & both sides are going to be impacted, one way or the other, everybody is impacted, except of course for the most senior pilot. |
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June 22nd, 2005, 04:01
| #18 |
| Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark
Posts: 6,897
| Re: American West pilots angry as talks near [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Why does management even need to be involved. The smart thing for management to do is to stay out of it. Let the two pilot groups figure it out for themselves. That way they have no one but themselves to blame if things go wrong. [/ QUOTE ] You mean like they did with American/TWA? Anytime two airlines merge, there are always problems..... TWA/Ozark, American/Reno, US Air/Piedmont, are just a few, always problems, each & every one of them. [/ QUOTE ] Delta and Western Airlines in 1984 went alright.....one of the first (and likely last) smooth mergers. |
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June 22nd, 2005, 08:47
| #20 |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 479
| Re: American West pilots angry as talks near [ QUOTE ] Thats like a parent seeing their two kids getting ready to fight. One with a bat in there hand the other with a sharp object their hand and thinking the "victor reaps the rewards." The merger was a managemt decision not a labor decision so they are the ones that need to settle the impending melee.-Matthew [/ QUOTE ] First of all we are talking about two groups of ADULTS who ought to be able to resolve their issues in a fair and equitable manner. Secondly, the only person who has an interest in a pilot's seniority is that pilot, and all those pilots junior to him. Management has no dog in this fight. So I say keep management out of it and let the pilots work it out for themselves. And finally, any management imposed settlement is only going to incur the wrath of the entire pilot group. Why would any manager want to take on that burden, especially when he has no real interest in the outcome, as long as their are enough pilots to fly the schedule. Pilots like to complain about management. Here is the pilots' chance to show what they can do. IMHO the two pilot groups need to get a mediator, work out an agreement, then go to management and say "You have a new airline, here is your new pilot group. Now lets talk about a new contract." |
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June 22nd, 2005, 09:09
| #21 |
| Old Skool | Re: American West pilots angry as talks near [ QUOTE ] First of all we are talking about two groups of ADULTS who ought to be able to resolve their issues in a fair and equitable manner. [/ QUOTE ] Adults, hmmm, well, ummm, ewwww, adults and pilot senority in the same sentence, maybe not..... |
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June 22nd, 2005, 09:41
| #22 |
| Junior Member  Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Charlottesville, VA
Posts: 255
| Re: American West pilots angry as talks near [ QUOTE ] AAA (USAir) is a very senior pilot group. Chances are, the most junior FO is senior to most of HP's (America West). [/ QUOTE ] I seem to remember my dad (retired US Express / Piedmont) telling me that every current active US Airways pilot had been a captain at one point, and the most junior captain had a hire date of something like 1987! |
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June 22nd, 2005, 10:53
| #23 |
| Moderator  | Re: American West pilots angry as talks near [ QUOTE ] Delta and Western Airlines in 1984 went alright.....one of the first (and likely last) smooth mergers. [/ QUOTE ] How did the NWA/Republic merger go? I was too young to remember the time. |
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June 22nd, 2005, 10:54
| #24 |
| Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: Maryland
Posts: 15,323
| Re: American West pilots angry as talks near Nah. I didn't work paradigm shift into it. |
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June 22nd, 2005, 11:39
| #25 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: the Twin Cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul
Posts: 1,896
| Re: American West pilots angry as talks near [ QUOTE ] How did the NWA/Republic merger go? I was too young to remember the time. [/ QUOTE ]Let's put it this way: there's still people who are very, very pissed off about it. From what I can tell, it's not a subject to be brought up with NWA pilots who were there at the time. MF |
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