Is Sim time counted as total time?

[BrianNC]

I was reading in another post where you can use sim time toward a rating (I had 20 sim toward my instrument which I already have and 43 hours total sim time) but it said it cannot be used toward total time.

I have 200 hrs without the sim time, and 243 with it. I can't use the sim time in my total time? Am I reading this wrong? Could comeone explain to me how this works in regards to total time needed for a rating, specifically the commercial as that is what I am headed toward now.

This is what the reg says:

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(i) Credit a maximum of 50 hours toward the total aeronautical experience requirements for an airplane or powered-lift rating, provided the aeronautical experience was obtained from an authorized instructor in a flight simulator or flight training device that represents that class of airplane or powered-lift category and type, if applicable, appropriate to the rating sought;

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So what did the comment mean that I read about sim time not being able to be used toward total time?

[MikeD]

I've never logged sim time in anything other than a "simulator" column in my logbook, which for the past 6 years I stopped even doing that, regardless of the sophistication level of the sim.

[BrianNC]

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I've never logged sim time in anything other than a "simulator" column in my logbook, which for the past 6 years I stopped even doing that, regardless of the sophistication level of the sim.

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The sim time in my logbook is separate too not counted in with total time. But I still don't understand exactly when the reg says 50 hours of sim time can be used toward the rating, and someone else said it cannot be counted as total time.

Total time as pertaining to what?

[MikeD]

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I've never logged sim time in anything other than a "simulator" column in my logbook, which for the past 6 years I stopped even doing that, regardless of the sophistication level of the sim.

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The sim time in my logbook is separate too not counted in with total time. But I still don't understand exactly when the reg says 50 hours of sim time can be used toward the rating, and someone else said it cannot be counted as total time.

Total time as pertaining to what?

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The way it reads, I interperet it still as sim time isn't total time. However, if you happen to have sim time in an appropriate sim, that time itself can be counted towards whatever time (total) is required for the rating being sought. That's all.

[BrianNC]

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The way it reads, I interperet it still as sim time isn't total time. However, if you happen to have sim time in an appropriate sim, that time itself can be counted towards whatever time (total) is required for the rating being sought. That's all.

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So as far as total time goes I only have 200 hrs. But in regards to the commercial for required time purposes I have 243 hours.

I really don't see why the technicality if you can use the sim time toward the rating. Just wondering what the purpose of stating it that way is if you can use the time toward the license anyway.

[TaterSalad]

Because total time is time "in an airplane", referring to actual flight. Just like was stated above, sim time can be counted towards a rating, but not towards your total time.

[JaceTheAce]

Oh, does MS Flight Simulator count?

[MikeD]

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The way it reads, I interperet it still as sim time isn't total time. However, if you happen to have sim time in an appropriate sim, that time itself can be counted towards whatever time (total) is required for the rating being sought. That's all.

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So as far as total time goes I only have 200 hrs. But in regards to the commercial for required time purposes I have 243 hours.

I really don't see why the technicality if you can use the sim time toward the rating. Just wondering what the purpose of stating it that way is if you can use the time toward the license anyway.

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Nah. The way I read it, you have 200 hours. 43 of those 200 hours can be applied towards a rating. However, you only have 200 total any way you look at it.

[BrianNC]

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The way it reads, I interperet it still as sim time isn't total time. However, if you happen to have sim time in an appropriate sim, that time itself can be counted towards whatever time (total) is required for the rating being sought. That's all.

[/ QUOTE ]

So as far as total time goes I only have 200 hrs. But in regards to the commercial for required time purposes I have 243 hours.

I really don't see why the technicality if you can use the sim time toward the rating. Just wondering what the purpose of stating it that way is if you can use the time toward the license anyway.

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Nah. The way I read it, you have 200 hours. 43 of those 200 hours can be applied towards a rating. However, you only have 200 total any way you look at it.

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Not trying to be dense here, but I have 200 actual time in airplanes and 43 in sims in addition to the actual 200 in planes. So I can count this as 243 hours toward my 250 required for the commercial ticket, correct?

[project7]

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Not trying to be dense here, but I have 200 actual time in airplanes and 43 in sims in addition to the actual 200 in planes. So I can count this as 243 hours toward my 250 required for the commercial ticket, correct?

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Correct.

[hattrick]

sim time can be used only toward meeting the requirements for a certificate or rating. the commercial allows for 50 hours of it. simply log it as sim time in the column provided for it, but do not log it as total time or anything like that. so if you have 200 tt and 50 sim you can get your commercial. however if you were able to find a job right after you get your commercial you would only have 200 hours total to list on a resume. oh and for anyone wondering you may not use a sim to meet the x-country requirements etc... people have tried

[MikeD]

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oh and for anyone wondering you may not use a sim to meet the x-country requirements etc... people have tried

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You're kidding. Talk about scraping the absolute bottom of the barrel for time to log......

[LostComm]

They tell us at FlightSafety that you can log it as total time if it's a level C or D sim, but not as PIC because by definition PIC time is in an aircraft. But hey, whatever!
-LC

[kellwolf]

Hmmm, I thought "total time" referred to "flight time," so I figured that even Level D sims would still be "sim time."

On the 50 sim for the commercial, make sure that it's in an APPROVED simulator. There are requirements for that, so double check to make sure you don't get nailed on that at checkride time. That could be a really expensive mistake.

[Cosmo1999]

the best policy is that if its shady time or a gray area dont log it! Too many people have been sent away from interviews for things such as this. The best policy is to keep your logbook as free from questionable things as you can.

[DE727UPS]

"The sim time in my logbook is separate too not counted in with total time. But I still don't understand exactly when the reg says 50 hours of sim time can be used toward the rating, and someone else said it cannot be counted as total time."

The total time column in your logbook is traditionally considered to be total flight time. I don't know of any FAR's that tell logbook manufacturing companies how to label the columns but I've seen some where the far right column is "total time" and some that say "total flight time". Feel free to put your "sim time", which I would guess is really approved ground trainer time, in your total time column. When you go for an interview, you'll be told it's wrong, if anybody happens to notice.

What type of sim were you using? Frasca and ATC610's are approved ground trainers.

The regs for the 61 commercial allow you to apply 50 hours of "sim" time towards the 250 hour requirement. That doesn't mean the sim time goes in the far right hand column of your logbook.

[LostComm]

I agree about keeping out questionable things. I never really thought about it, but you can do a type rating or do your ATP at FSI in a level D sim. Seems like it would have to be total time to do that, but it could be an exception to the FARs.
-LC

[maverick2]

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Oh, does MS Flight Simulator count?

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Have you been living on Mars for the last 5 yrs? Of course MS Flight Simulator counts

[BrianNC]

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The total time column in your logbook is traditionally considered to be total flight time. I don't know of any FAR's that tell logbook manufacturing companies how to label the columns but I've seen some where the far right column is "total time" and some that say "total flight time". Feel free to put your "sim time", which I would guess is really approved ground trainer time, in your total time column. When you go for an interview, you'll be told it's wrong, if anybody happens to notice.

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I don't have it in my total time column. I have a separate comumn in my logbook labeled "Flight Simulator". My instrument instructor told me from the get-go that it is not a part of my total time. But I knew I could use it toward the commercial so I went back after I got my instrument and did some more sim time to get some cheap timebuilding toward the commercial.
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What type of sim were you using? Frasca and ATC610's are approved ground trainers.

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ATC610 or 710.

[MikeD]

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I have a separate comumn in my logbook labeled "Flight Simulator". My instrument instructor told me from the get-go that it is not a part of my total time. But I knew I could use it toward the commercial so I went back after I got my instrument and did some more sim time to get some cheap timebuilding toward the commercial.


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Then curiously, why the initial question in this thread, if the issue was cleared up back then?

[BrianNC]

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Then curiously, why the initial question in this thread, if the issue was cleared up back then?


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Because as I stated in my original post I read something that threw some doubt on the subject for me and I wanted to clarify.

Hey, I was wrong about the 250NM leg of the long cross country having to be non-stop, I coulda been wrong about that too.

[Snow]

you can also use 100hrs of sim time towards your ATP 1500hr requirement, if it's done in a part 142 center with C or D sims. Otherwise it's only 50 or 75hrs that can be counted. I don't ever log it towards total time though.