A look-see at UAL

[Doug Taylor]

Well, since it said "forward", I figured I'd post it so you can get a look-see at what's up at UAL:

[ QUOTE ]
Active Pilot writes to Mgmt - See what happened!

May 12, 2005

You have made it painfully clear how unimportant ALL United's employees
are to you at the top management level. After enduring your antics for the
past several years, I shouldn't be surprised by your pathetic and
disgusting
behavior. However, I had hoped maybe you might find some decency in
yourselves by now.

You are nothing less than thieving, lying, marauding corporate Pirates,
pretending to be astute businessmen dressed in suits. You hang around for a
few years, destroy our futures, degrade and abuse all who work for the good
of the company, collect your bonuses and disappear with your golden
parachutes. What is amazing is the fact YOU are never accountable nor is it
ever YOUR fault when your own decisions are disastrous.

The Pilot group which has given you all they hold dear is rapidly becoming
aware of the deception and utter lack of integrity from UAL management! I
am
disappointed in our weak ALPA leadership and how you have exploited our
lack
of strength and unity to fight for our very existence. However, this apathy
on our part may change in light of your most recent abhorrent behavior.
Many of us are ready for war!

I doubt you have a clue just how distressed most of us are. Pilots have
spent years training and educating themselves for what has become an
inconsequential temporary JOB that is not worth the stress and hardship on
ourselves and families! Many are now actively seeking to escape UAL or even
the airline industry all together from what was formerly a respected
career.

The presumption there is little you can do to get back on tract is absurd.
You have bankrupt UAL, stolen our stock, destroyed our pensions, reduced
our salaries to ridiculous levels, degraded and abused us all, and yet you
are
not accountable!?!? I suspect all of this has been a grand plan, but many
of my peers just think you're idiots! The truth is most likely a mix of these

reasons amongst you.

There are just no words to describe the disgust and contempt I hold for all
of you. I will forever be unwilling to trust or even listen to the drivel
you unscrupulous nitwits infect this company with! Ironic you keep your
pensions while you continue to slash and burn your most important asset;
All the people who once made United great!

Sincerely,
David Zogg
LAXFO

cc: Glenn Tilton
cc: Jake Brace
cc: Pete McDonald
cc: Sara Fields
cc: Steve Forte
__________________________________________________ ____
The letter I sent to you please forward to ALL. I still have a job SO FAR,
but I was removed from flight status and sent home while in London UK as
per
LAX flight manager, Joe Noval. He and I don't like each other and have had
problems in the past. I'm told a flight was cancelled because of this mess,
but I can't confirm it. My ALPA rep is handling it now and it looks like a
psyche evaluation is coming this week. More will probably happen Monday
when all the suits get back into the office. I will update as things
unfold.
I am in the middle of this [censored] storm, but you can help by informing your
contacts. If they fire me, I will try to go to the media as this pension
crap is being watched closely.
Thank you for your support
David

[/ QUOTE ]

[ETAV8R]

The U.S. is in dire straits in so many ways.
Very sad indeed how such a great company has become
managed to hell.
This makes me want to vomit!

[Doug Taylor]

I watched "In Good Grace" on the jet back from Atlanta a couple days ago, and I think that's what is wrong with the airline business.

Largely, we've forgotten the notion of 'superior product at a competitive price' and replaced it with "rock bottom price for just a ride to your destination'

People book the cheapest price on Orbitz, but they still b*tch like cut pigs on the airplane when there isn't a hot meal and a complimentary tanqueray and tonic waiting for their arrival.

[Screaming_Emu]

[ QUOTE ]
I watched "In Good Grace" on the jet back from Atlanta a couple days ago, and I think that's what is wrong with the airline business.

Largely, we've forgotten the notion of 'superior product at a competitive price' and replaced it with "rock bottom price for just a ride to your destination'

People book the cheapest price on Orbitz, but they still b*tch like cut pigs on the airplane when there isn't a hot meal and a complimentary tanqueray and tonic waiting for their arrival.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree completely. I read Bethune's book "from worst to first" and they tried that whole Continental Lite a long time ago and found out real quick that it wasn't working. Sound familiar? (song, ted, etc). Then they came up with the idea (while at his place drinking if I remember correctly) hey, how about we make our product nice enough that people are willing to pay a little bit extra for it.

It took some creative thinking and some employee motivation but he got it done. They got a new paint scheme to complete the change. Funny story about that, one of the guys in charge of painting the planes said that they would not be able to get it done by the day he wanted the entire fleet done, so he actually mentioned to the guy that he has guns or something to that effect (been a while since I read the book). The last plane in the fleet was painted a few days early.

[flyover]

[ QUOTE ]
Largely, we've forgotten the notion of 'superior product at a competitive price' and replaced it with "rock bottom price for just a ride to your destination'



[/ QUOTE ]

I agree completely. I read Bethune's book "from worst to first" and they tried that whole Continental Lite a long time ago and found out real quick that it wasn't working. Sound familiar? (song, ted, etc). Then they came up with the idea (while at his place drinking if I remember correctly) hey, how about we make our product nice enough that people are willing to pay a little bit extra for it.

It took some creative thinking and some employee motivation but he got it done. .

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, and now CAL is sitting pretty. Making money. Plenty of credit. No paycuts. Seems like that was the answer. Why can't the rest of the industry see it?

At least the UAL people recognized years ago that bad management was the source of all their ills and did something about it. They took big paycuts to fund an employee buyout and became the "Proud Employee Owners of United Airlines" (I'm sure you saw the commercials). Definitely solved their problems and made them an industry leader in this new environment.

The answers are right there if we just look for them.

[Baronman]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, and now CAL is sitting pretty. Making money. Plenty of credit. No paycuts. Seems like that was the answer. Why can't the rest of the industry see it?


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually CAL reported a loss the last quarter. All unions (minus the FAs) ratified an agreement to take a pay cut.

That being said I agree with what you said, they seem to cater to a certain segment of the market. You pay a little more but I think the service is a little better as well. And they seem to be loosing less than the other legacy carriers. Despite the pay cut etc most employees seem to be pretty content, or at least not as pissed off as others at UAL/ US Airways etc.

[Cachon]

[ QUOTE ]


I doubt you have a clue just how distressed most of us are. Pilots have
spent years training and educating themselves for what has become an
inconsequential temporary JOB that is not worth the stress and hardship on
ourselves and families! Many are now actively seeking to escape UAL or even
the airline industry all together from what was formerly a respected
career.

The presumption there is little you can do to get back on tract is absurd.
You have bankrupt UAL, stolen our stock, destroyed our pensions, reduced
our salaries to ridiculous levels, degraded and abused us all, and yet you
are
not accountable!?!? I suspect all of this has been a grand plan, but many
of my peers just think you're idiots! The truth is most likely a mix of these

reasons amongst you.



[/ QUOTE ]


I'm glad someone finally had the cojones (b***s) to stand up for themselves.

When are rest of the pilots going to stand up and say enough is enough?

[flyover]

Just a warning for anyone else looking to stand up for themselves. If you pen an incoherent, mis-spelled and grammatically incorrect rant about how much stress you are under and then widely distribute it, you leave the company little choice but to, at the least, evaluate you face to face.

[BrettInLJ]

[ QUOTE ]


I'm glad someone finally had the cojones (b***s) to stand up for themselves.

When are rest of the pilots going to stand up and say enough is enough?

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with most everthing he says, but in an employement situation you can't really send a letter like that to managment without reprecusions. Maybe I've been in the corporate world too long though. Also, he probably knows there will be reprecusions and doesn't care given the already bad situation at UAL. He could have written it better though with more thoughtfully worded criticisms and less emotional verbage, and still got his message across... and avoided being sent for a psyche evaluation.

[tonyw]

I don't think he gives a rat's ass about whether he's fired or not.

He's probably close to 60, has assets that's he invested, and just saw a million dollars worth of pension go out the window. So he's thinking, who gives a rats's ass if they fire me, they've shafted me a million and one ways before!

[mrivc211]

I talked to an UAL FO yesterday who said an example of whats happening to their pensions is someone is going from $12,000/month to about $2500/month.



BTW- Hey Taylor- did you ever do that Kit Darby interview?

[tonyw]

Yuppers! So if you figure it that way, it is $120K a year.

That means for a UAL employee who retires at 60, who lives to say, 77, it's a two million dollar difference.

And they wonder why the people at UAL are pissed?

[BCTAv8r]

But how far can this issue get? Minimun wage?

[MikeD]

Garnered from another forum:

[ QUOTE ]

A federal bankruptcy judge said Friday he would not issue a ruling until May 31 on United Airlines' request to impose lower pay and benefits on its machinists union, a decision aimed at letting the two sides agree on a long-term contract.

Both sides said pensions remained the main sticking point.

United has already gotten approval to "dump the pensions". United appears unwilling to bend on the pension issue. The IAM is unwilling to bend. What is the IAM waiting on?

If the IAM had any guts at all they'd walk out today and make a powerful statement to United. But no, United just bought another couple of weeks with idle union threats..

[/ QUOTE ]

[MikeD]

Another, slightly related post, from another forum:

Don't agree with the balance of it, but I give a little credence for the part I bolded......

[ QUOTE ]

I have worked in avaition for the last 12years. I have seen pilots elevated to the highest rung on the ladder paid far beyond their worth. I have watched other union groups become monsters always wanting more & more (Northwest got x-dollars well Delta got x+1 dollars and the next gets x+2, on & on... Never enough, we have to be the highest paid, best compensated, etc.. )

I have worked for unions. I have worked without unions. Without is the way to go. Everytime I bring up this subject all I hear is unions protect this & unions got me that.. Today, I ask .. What have unions been able to protect? What have unions gotten? What good are labor contracts, if under the threat of tossing them out, unions crack and concede? Seems that all they are good for is taking the monthly dues..

A bitter twist of fate since 9/11. Unions went from "King of the Hill" to the gutter ..

[/ QUOTE ]