B6 EMB190?

[Doug Taylor]

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I start a post with a simple question and a few posts later it gets out of control.

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Did I do that?

[flyover]

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Management loved the frustration between mainline groups and the subcontractors because then they could shift premium-paying jobs onto carriers that had a lower cost structure.

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And the thing they loved the most about it was, it was an entirely self-inflicted wound. ALPA could have put their foot down and said: "all flying for the same company on one contract" from day one. They thought the feeders were never going to be more than a handful of metroliners. They didn't even want the guys that flew them in ALPA until they woke up one day and noticed things were getting out of hand and decided: "We better start calling these guys 'fraternal brothers' instead of 'trash haulers' and 'flaps.' " D'oh!

[kellwolf]

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Point blank regional flying should be in my opinion done by mainline pilots there shouldn't be a A salary scale and a B scale.


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I'd like to see starting salaries based solely on the number of seats on an aircraft, but I don't ever see that happening. The problem with your suggestion is that most mainline pilots have paid their dues and don't want to go back to the regional jets. They put in their time with TPs. What I have a problem with is the mainline pilots that say "Nah, we don't want to fly that tiny thing" then complain that the RJ pilots are ruining their careers. It turns into a whole us vs them type thing on both sides. I'd like to see an A scale and a B scale, but it's been tried, argued and shot down numerous times already.

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Furthermore I strongly believe there should only be one union for the airlines mainline or contract. Too many splinters weaken the stick.

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Actually, that's part of the problem. Mesa, Delta, Continental, Northwest, Pinnacle, XJT, etc ARE all the same union. The problem comes because the union is fighting both sides of the arguement. They argue for scope and pay for the major and against scope and for QoL and pay for the regionals. The fact that ALPA is on both end of the scope arguement is what makes this so nasty. To my knowledge the only non-ALPA carriers are SWA, American, jetBlue and Skywest. At least those are the ones that I can think of.

[flyover]

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They argue for scope and pay for the major and against scope and for QoL and pay for the regionals. The fact that ALPA is on both end of the scope arguement is what makes this so nasty.

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Actually I think ALPA's position is the contract carriers should take their scope and like it. Scope has done two things for the regionals. One it has put a ceiling on their career opportunities. Two it has produced a whole gaggle of ALPA pilot groups to compete for the same flying. In other words the mainline flying is sheltered while theirs is wide open for the taking.

The amazing thing is that ALPA can tapdance in front of these regional groups and get them to buy it. I'd say it has been palatable only because the regionals have seen some growth and no furloughs yet (in contrast to mainline), and many of the younger guys are still hopeful of going to the majors.

The question is having voluntarily splintered airline flying into multiple autonomous pilot groups, how does ALPA navigate the coming consolidation and keep them all under the ALPA banner? Will there be a national union when it's all said and done? Only the shadow knows.

[Pirep]

Wow, this thread got ugly. Just goes to show how much frustration is out there with the airline situation, and that's exactly the card management wanted dealt as long as I can remember (Dad used to [censored] about this back in the ('70s, '80's, and '90's at United). They've been trying to break the hold pilots have had for decades, now they've done it. And now it's time to rebuild how they want to dictate. Tearing it down, then building it back up (while trying to stay alive at the same time). Scopes have left the building... And the way pilots think, were trying to make sense out of chaos. Good luck.

To hit on a few points mentioned-
MikeD-that long on an ejection seat? I can't relate, but it sounds painful. The only difference in the point I was trying to make is that you are getting paid to sit in that seat, pax are paying to sit there.

-The all leather seats in the ERJ are just that...all leather and no padding. Plus, I don't know what they used as a seat model, but it wasn't human. Absolutely no lower back support. If they had a better design, they'd be more tolerable.

--I believe CHQ got the base in MCO because Comair was closing it as a EMB-120 base. Also the CRJ-200 can't get in and out of KEYW, although the -700 can.

-Also, I was told one of the main reasons CHQ got the 170's for Delta is because they financed the planes themselves. Comair/ASA couldn't get the financing at the time.

-and for the people that think an RJ was built for 3+ hours of flight carrying 50 people? You're whacked. Can it do it? Of course. How much does the lav hold? Not 3+hours worth of #1 and #2. Love that sloshing blue juice (and friends). Servicing flights direct to smaller markets is great, but at what cost? I guess we haven't seen the line yet, but I think it's coming into view very quickly.

-Chicaga- the 50 seat market is not over, it never will be. There will always be a market for direct flights to smaller markets and numerous choice of flights and times to busier markets(if ATC can handle it). Don't buy into the hype. Is it saturated? yes. Is it cost effective how they are being used now? No. Especially now that loads are back up to where they can put bigger planes on the same routes and fill them.But now that scope clauses are going away, they can put us dumb schmucks in bigger planes for cheaper pay, just like management has wanted to do for a long time. B(or C)-scale without the name. Or just go and work at B6. They already have a built in B-scale.And life goes on.

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

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Also the CRJ-200 can't get in and out of KEYW, although the -700 can.

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Sorry, but the ERJ and the CRJ can, and do, fly into Key West.

US Airways Express carrier PSA Airlines flies 3 x daily FLL-EYW.

Delta Connection carrier Chautauqua also flies 3 x daily MCO-EYW.

Those are all I can remember from the top of my head.

[Doug Taylor]

I know of an airline flying CRJ-70's into Key West and normally they're blocked at 65 seats or so because of weight/performance restrictions.

At least so a little bird tells me.

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

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I know of an airline flying CRJ-70's into Key West and normally they're blocked at 65 seats or so because of weight/performance restrictions.

At least so a little bird tells me.

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I'm assuming you're talking about ASA?

The 65 seat restriction sounds very true!

This is what I can confirm, directly from Delta's website:

Domestic U.S. only:
Customers traveling to or from Key West, Florida are limited to 1 checked bag.

http://www.delta.com/travel/plan/bag...ex.jsp#Checked


So, yes, they definetly have some weight and balance issues to address flying out of EYW.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

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I'd like to see starting salaries based solely on the number of seats on an aircraft, but I don't ever see that happening. The problem with your suggestion is that most mainline pilots have paid their dues and don't want to go back to the regional jets. They put in their time with TPs. What I have a problem with is the mainline pilots that say "Nah, we don't want to fly that tiny thing" then complain that the RJ pilots are ruining their careers. It turns into a whole us vs them type thing on both sides. I'd like to see an A scale and a B scale, but it's been tried, argued and shot down numerous times already.


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I still firmly believe that all airline flying should be done by that airline. If not that then the contract companies should have stricter work rules and higher paying contracts and not undercut each other.
Again how can mainline regionals that are wholly owned subsidaries compete against a contract company that can do their job just as well as they can and for cheaper?

Here is an idea that I had running around in my mind all day. Airlines XXX is hiring. They have two different people applying for a job but not the same one.
Pilot A has 3000-5000 hrs. so he gets the shot at mainline jets.
Where as pilot B only has 800-1500 hrs. so if hired he flies the regional arm of XXX airline at fair airline wages.
There by allowing those pilots who have paid there dues to fly the aircraft they deserve. And be compensated fairly
When pilot B has enough hours experience (should he want) he can bid off that RJ and start flying the big steel.
Under this model all airline flying is handled by mainline pilots. No need for scope or A & B salaries
To me it sounds good in theory but it is prolly problematic!

-Matthew

[BCTAv8r]

Not that I have any experience with this, but it would be cool if all the legacies merged and made one strong airline.

[kellwolf]

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Not that I have any experience with this, but it would be cool if all the legacies merged and made one strong airline.

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Not if you're a passenger.

[Doug Taylor]

Ahh, never mentioned, nor would I mention a specific airline in that scenario. Last thing I need is the chief pilot calling me about a nastygram from some marketing wiener about releasing proprietary information.

I dunno, perhaps I'm a little testy after going thru at least 5 emails this morning from non-forumites asking me customer service questions, "Ya'll lost my bags who do I talk to" and whether or not a particular resume is competitive for a job in a particular non flight ops related job.

[kellwolf]

Oooh oooh. Forward them to me, I got some GREAT answers for those e-mails.....

[Doug Taylor]

Geez, if I wanted to get fired, it'd be a lot easier just to quit, Kel!

[kellwolf]

Yeah, but you quitting is no fun for me!

[Doug Taylor]

So you're the guy who suggested E. Simonetti 'jazz it up a little' on her blog, eh?

How does Dr. Phil say it, "How'd that work for ya?"

[Pirep]

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Also the CRJ-200 can't get in and out of KEYW, although the -700 can.

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Sorry, but the ERJ and the CRJ can, and do, fly into Key West.

US Airways Express carrier PSA Airlines flies 3 x daily FLL-EYW.

Delta Connection carrier Chautauqua also flies 3 x daily MCO-EYW.

Those are all I can remember from the top of my head.

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I stand corrected. I took it from the ground crew that the CRJ-200 couldn't fly in there. They were b!tching about the load for the CRJ-700 was only able to carry 35 pax that day. I asked them why they didn't put a -200 on that flight. They said due to performance, it couldn't do flights out of KEYW. I guess it might be a company limitation. I found out Comair also limits it's min. field length to 5000'. KEYW is 4801'. I assumed wrong that all carriers couldn't fly it in there. All I have ever seen is the EMB135/145, CRJ-700's, ATR's, B1900's, and twin Cessna's doing scheduled service for the past year and change.

p.s.-Cherokee, you need a new hobby. Commiting to memory airline flight schedules is not that exciting.