Paying for A/C checkout as an instructor at flight school

jaxpilot · March 29th, 2005, 16:59

I was wondering how many of you CFI's have had to pay to be checked out in an airplane in which to give instruction in at your Flight School. This probably belongs in the CFI corner but thought I would get more responses here. I figured that the Flight school would cover the cost of the airplane, but I have a job offer at a school where this is not the case and was wondering how common it is.

TaterSalad · March 29th, 2005, 17:10

There was a post like this in the CFI corner not long ago, that I replied to, but here's the gist of my post. The school I'm currently instructing at, had an insurance requirement, that all instructors have 10 hrs in type, for one of our aircraft (Alarus CH2T...........dunno why they wanted the 10 hrs in type, but they did.............whatever.). I was allowed to do "scenic" flights in the airplane, and anything that wasn't considered strictly instruction, to work towards those 10 hrs. However, that may have taken a month or 2, and during that time I was missing potential students. So I ended up paying for about 7 hrs of that time, to meet insurance requirements. Now, they didn't make any profit, they gave me the plane at cost. If they'd actually charged me the full rental rate, I may have not been so ok with it, but I understood it for what it was, just (another) stupid insurance requirement. That requirement, as an aside, has now gone the way of the dinosaurs with an insurance company change, always did think it was stupid.

So, to answer your question, yes, I did pay to get "checked out" in our planes for instruction. In fact, I think I even had to pay to fly each of our aircraft to be checked out (Alarus, 172, and an Arrow), but again, only at cost.

Also keep in mind, at least on the positive side............any $$ you spend on an aircraft checkout to instruct, is tax deductible. Saved me from paying any taxes this year!

Jason · March 29th, 2005, 17:11

Not very common, although not unheard of. I know jobs are tough to find now but I'd seriously wonder about any operation that isn't committed enough to their employees to spend $75 bucks on them.

Jason

Jason · March 29th, 2005, 17:18

There is a difference between a "checkout" and getting the minimum hours required to satisfy the insurance company - guess it depends on what you were asking about originally.

Also, I don't want to start a war, but why is 10 hours in the airplane a "stupid insurance requirement" ?? God forbid they want you to have some experience in the thing before you A) Act as Pilot in Command and B) Teach someone else to act as Pilot in Command of the airplane. Yes, yes, I know that according to the FARs it's perfectly legal to step into and airplane you've never flown and give instruction in it but I think the aviation world has shown time and again that what's legal isn't necessarily smart or safe.

Jason

Derek_S · March 29th, 2005, 17:21

I think that you should be able to show them your log book, and if you have that 10 hours already logged for the same type of aircraft, you should be good to go. I mean there wouldn't be any difference in the aircraft other then it is owned by someone else.

Jason · March 29th, 2005, 17:23

I absolutley agree with you but that's not what he said - he said 10 hours in type indicating to me that he had never flown the type before.

Jason

I_Money · March 29th, 2005, 18:47

I think it is best to let Jason fly - I will just sit in the back of his Challenger!

GreenDayPilot · March 29th, 2005, 18:57

I payed for my checkout in a C172 and an Arrow (something I've never flown) and it was 1 hour for each (only payed for the a/c). I think they just want to make sure that you are who you say you are. Maybe just want to checkout your credentials first hand. But at the school I work at, they will pay you back what you payed for the checkout if you stay with them for at least 6 months.

gtpilot · March 29th, 2005, 19:01

[ QUOTE ]
Not very common, although not unheard of. I know jobs are tough to find now but I'd seriously wonder about any operation that isn't committed enough to their employees to spend $75 bucks on them.

Jason

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd agree, insurance requirements aside, any company worth their salt should be able to cover a hour check-out.

Jason · March 29th, 2005, 19:12

[ QUOTE ]
I think it is best to let Jason fly - I will just sit in the back of his Challenger!

[/ QUOTE ]

I WISH every day I still had my Challenger and pray every night for God to send me a good corporate job.....until then I've been relegated to Regional hell.

Jason

mtsu_av8er · March 29th, 2005, 21:08

I paid for any checkouts after my initial flight school checkout.

Granted, I'm not an employee, but an "Independant Contractor"

Anyhoo, I didn't like it, and it sucked to pay for it. Personally, I don't charge other CFI's for my time if I check them out (hard to believe I can check out other CFI's...

).

ananoman · March 29th, 2005, 22:31

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I don't want to start a war, but why is 10 hours in the airplane a "stupid insurance requirement" ??

[/ QUOTE ] It would not be a stupid requirement if the aircraft was a complex high performance aircraft. But, I think that 10 hours in a CH2T is over kill. It would be no different than requiring 10 hours for someone to instruct in a 152.

I_Money · March 29th, 2005, 22:54

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think it is best to let Jason fly - I will just sit in the back of his Challenger!

[/ QUOTE ]

I WISH every day I still had my Challenger and pray every night for God to send me a good corporate job.....until then I've been relegated to Regional hell.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry to hear that - you probably do more landings in one month then you did for your entire corp carrier! Who are you flying for?

[ QUOTE ]
I don't charge other CFI's for my time if I check them out

[/ QUOTE ]

What do they have to twirl -

Doug Taylor · March 29th, 2005, 23:21

[ QUOTE ]
I was wondering how many of you CFI's have had to pay to be checked out in an airplane in which to give instruction in at your Flight School.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never did. Heck, I never even got checked out on any of their aircraft, more or less reviewed some manuals, tagged along on a instructional flight and started booking students.

jaxpilot · March 29th, 2005, 23:29

I really need to leave the State of Florida. There are too many instructors here and flight schools feel that they are doing you a favor by hiring you, regardless of what you bring to the table. It seems that flight schools in other parts of the country actually respect their instructors. I will probably go ahead and pay for the checkout since I have low time and need to get a job before my flying skills really wear off. Thanks for all the input guys.

TaterSalad · March 30th, 2005, 01:28

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also, I don't want to start a war, but why is 10 hours in the airplane a "stupid insurance requirement" ??

[/ QUOTE ] It would not be a stupid requirement if the aircraft was a complex high performance aircraft. But, I think that 10 hours in a CH2T is over kill. It would be no different than requiring 10 hours for someone to instruct in a 152.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you, my feelings on the subject exactly!! The Alarus is a pretty simple airplane, send me home with the POH, and 1 hr in the plane, and I would've been good to go. Incidentally, our new insurance company realizes this same thing.

tonyw · March 30th, 2005, 11:56

WTFO?

To me this is like a company requiring you to take a drug test to get hired, and then saying, oh, yeah, cough up the money for the drug test.

shinysideup · March 30th, 2005, 15:37

Absolute BS.

WTFO

Anyone who is an employee of a flight school, and is paying the flight school money, even cost, to get checked out in the aircraft is being hosed down like a little B!T@& THAT IS ABSOLUTLY NOT ACCEPTABLE IN MY BOOK.

When I started instrcting, I not only didnt have to pay for my checkout, but they gave me an interviw flight prior to hireing. Then after being hired, they considered that a checkout. The only time I had anything close to a problem was when I needed 5 hours PIC in a Seneca to instruct in it (regs not insurance), I was given about 1.5 immediatly after I brought it up to the GM, then was sent to California to ferry one to Orlando (got my 5+ and had one great trip). All other aircraft checkouts came as needed...ie if you have a student booked in the Piper ch6 then you will get checked out prior to that flight. I had the oppertunity to fly over 20 diferent types during my time there, and never once did or would I pay for the checkout...

Yes you are instructing, and I give you credit for that, but do not allow you boss turn it into a PFT/PFJ situation with the checkouts, if they think enough about you to pay you to instruct then they can drop a little more to get you past the insurance BS. And if they dont, let me know, I know of places that will.

GregCollins2 · March 31st, 2005, 21:03

Taught at 6 different schools, never paid.

March 29th, 2005, 16:59	#1
jaxpilot Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: FL Posts: 84	Paying for A/C checkout as an instructor at flight school I was wondering how many of you CFI's have had to pay to be checked out in an airplane in which to give instruction in at your Flight School. This probably belongs in the CFI corner but thought I would get more responses here. I figured that the Flight school would cover the cost of the airplane, but I have a job offer at a school where this is not the case and was wondering how common it is.

March 29th, 2005, 17:10	#2
TaterSalad Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 342	Re: Paying for A/C checkout as an instructor at flight school There was a post like this in the CFI corner not long ago, that I replied to, but here's the gist of my post. The school I'm currently instructing at, had an insurance requirement, that all instructors have 10 hrs in type, for one of our aircraft (Alarus CH2T...........dunno why they wanted the 10 hrs in type, but they did.............whatever.). I was allowed to do "scenic" flights in the airplane, and anything that wasn't considered strictly instruction, to work towards those 10 hrs. However, that may have taken a month or 2, and during that time I was missing potential students. So I ended up paying for about 7 hrs of that time, to meet insurance requirements. Now, they didn't make any profit, they gave me the plane at cost. If they'd actually charged me the full rental rate, I may have not been so ok with it, but I understood it for what it was, just (another) stupid insurance requirement. That requirement, as an aside, has now gone the way of the dinosaurs with an insurance company change, always did think it was stupid. So, to answer your question, yes, I did pay to get "checked out" in our planes for instruction. In fact, I think I even had to pay to fly each of our aircraft to be checked out (Alarus, 172, and an Arrow), but again, only at cost. Also keep in mind, at least on the positive side............any $$ you spend on an aircraft checkout to instruct, is tax deductible. Saved me from paying any taxes this year!

March 29th, 2005, 17:11	#3
Jason Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 986	Re: Paying for A/C checkout as an instructor at flight school Not very common, although not unheard of. I know jobs are tough to find now but I'd seriously wonder about any operation that isn't committed enough to their employees to spend $75 bucks on them. Jason

March 29th, 2005, 17:18	#4
Jason Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 986	Re: Paying for A/C checkout as an instructor at flight school There is a difference between a "checkout" and getting the minimum hours required to satisfy the insurance company - guess it depends on what you were asking about originally. Also, I don't want to start a war, but why is 10 hours in the airplane a "stupid insurance requirement" ?? God forbid they want you to have some experience in the thing before you A) Act as Pilot in Command and B) Teach someone else to act as Pilot in Command of the airplane. Yes, yes, I know that according to the FARs it's perfectly legal to step into and airplane you've never flown and give instruction in it but I think the aviation world has shown time and again that what's legal isn't necessarily smart or safe. Jason

March 29th, 2005, 17:21	#5
Derek_S Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Pleasanton, CA Posts: 398	Re: Paying for A/C checkout as an instructor at flight school I think that you should be able to show them your log book, and if you have that 10 hours already logged for the same type of aircraft, you should be good to go. I mean there wouldn't be any difference in the aircraft other then it is owned by someone else.

March 29th, 2005, 17:23	#6
Jason Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 986	Re: Paying for A/C checkout as an instructor at flight school I absolutley agree with you but that's not what he said - he said 10 hours in type indicating to me that he had never flown the type before. Jason

March 29th, 2005, 18:47	#7
I_Money Moderator Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Socal Posts: 5,650	Re: Paying for A/C checkout as an instructor at flight school I think it is best to let Jason fly - I will just sit in the back of his Challenger!

March 29th, 2005, 18:57	#8
GreenDayPilot Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: SoCal Posts: 906	Re: Paying for A/C checkout as an instructor at flight school I payed for my checkout in a C172 and an Arrow (something I've never flown) and it was 1 hour for each (only payed for the a/c). I think they just want to make sure that you are who you say you are. Maybe just want to checkout your credentials first hand. But at the school I work at, they will pay you back what you payed for the checkout if you stay with them for at least 6 months.

March 29th, 2005, 19:01	#9
gtpilot Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: GA Posts: 431	Re: Paying for A/C checkout as an instructor at flight school [ QUOTE ] Not very common, although not unheard of. I know jobs are tough to find now but I'd seriously wonder about any operation that isn't committed enough to their employees to spend $75 bucks on them. Jason [/ QUOTE ] I'd agree, insurance requirements aside, any company worth their salt should be able to cover a hour check-out.

March 29th, 2005, 19:12	#10
Jason Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 986	Re: Paying for A/C checkout as an instructor at flight school [ QUOTE ] I think it is best to let Jason fly - I will just sit in the back of his Challenger! [/ QUOTE ] I WISH every day I still had my Challenger and pray every night for God to send me a good corporate job.....until then I've been relegated to Regional hell. Jason

March 29th, 2005, 21:08	#11
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,503	Re: Paying for A/C checkout as an instructor at flight school I paid for any checkouts after my initial flight school checkout. Granted, I'm not an employee, but an "Independant Contractor" Anyhoo, I didn't like it, and it sucked to pay for it. Personally, I don't charge other CFI's for my time if I check them out (hard to believe I can check out other CFI's... ).

March 29th, 2005, 22:31	#12
ananoman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 916	Re: Paying for A/C checkout as an instructor at flight school [ QUOTE ] Also, I don't want to start a war, but why is 10 hours in the airplane a "stupid insurance requirement" ?? [/ QUOTE ] It would not be a stupid requirement if the aircraft was a complex high performance aircraft. But, I think that 10 hours in a CH2T is over kill. It would be no different than requiring 10 hours for someone to instruct in a 152.

March 29th, 2005, 22:54	#13
I_Money Moderator Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Socal Posts: 5,650	Re: Paying for A/C checkout as an instructor at flight school [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I think it is best to let Jason fly - I will just sit in the back of his Challenger! [/ QUOTE ] I WISH every day I still had my Challenger and pray every night for God to send me a good corporate job.....until then I've been relegated to Regional hell. [/ QUOTE ] Sorry to hear that - you probably do more landings in one month then you did for your entire corp carrier! Who are you flying for? [ QUOTE ] I don't charge other CFI's for my time if I check them out [/ QUOTE ] What do they have to twirl -

March 29th, 2005, 23:21	#14
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 40,540 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Paying for A/C checkout as an instructor at flight school [ QUOTE ] I was wondering how many of you CFI's have had to pay to be checked out in an airplane in which to give instruction in at your Flight School. [/ QUOTE ] I never did. Heck, I never even got checked out on any of their aircraft, more or less reviewed some manuals, tagged along on a instructional flight and started booking students.

March 29th, 2005, 23:29	#15
jaxpilot Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: FL Posts: 84	Re: Paying for A/C checkout as an instructor at flight school I really need to leave the State of Florida. There are too many instructors here and flight schools feel that they are doing you a favor by hiring you, regardless of what you bring to the table. It seems that flight schools in other parts of the country actually respect their instructors. I will probably go ahead and pay for the checkout since I have low time and need to get a job before my flying skills really wear off. Thanks for all the input guys.

March 30th, 2005, 01:28	#16
TaterSalad Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 342	Re: Paying for A/C checkout as an instructor at flight school [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Also, I don't want to start a war, but why is 10 hours in the airplane a "stupid insurance requirement" ?? [/ QUOTE ] It would not be a stupid requirement if the aircraft was a complex high performance aircraft. But, I think that 10 hours in a CH2T is over kill. It would be no different than requiring 10 hours for someone to instruct in a 152. [/ QUOTE ] Thank you, my feelings on the subject exactly!! The Alarus is a pretty simple airplane, send me home with the POH, and 1 hr in the plane, and I would've been good to go. Incidentally, our new insurance company realizes this same thing.

March 30th, 2005, 11:56	#17
tonyw Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: Maryland Posts: 15,463	Re: Paying for A/C checkout as an instructor at flight school WTFO? To me this is like a company requiring you to take a drug test to get hired, and then saying, oh, yeah, cough up the money for the drug test.

March 30th, 2005, 15:37	#18
shinysideup Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ohio, no, Florida, Michigan, Atl, no, Cape Cod, LA, no I am in DC now!!! Posts: 427	Re: Paying for A/C checkout as an instructor at flight school Absolute BS. WTFO Anyone who is an employee of a flight school, and is paying the flight school money, even cost, to get checked out in the aircraft is being hosed down like a little B!T@& THAT IS ABSOLUTLY NOT ACCEPTABLE IN MY BOOK. When I started instrcting, I not only didnt have to pay for my checkout, but they gave me an interviw flight prior to hireing. Then after being hired, they considered that a checkout. The only time I had anything close to a problem was when I needed 5 hours PIC in a Seneca to instruct in it (regs not insurance), I was given about 1.5 immediatly after I brought it up to the GM, then was sent to California to ferry one to Orlando (got my 5+ and had one great trip). All other aircraft checkouts came as needed...ie if you have a student booked in the Piper ch6 then you will get checked out prior to that flight. I had the oppertunity to fly over 20 diferent types during my time there, and never once did or would I pay for the checkout... Yes you are instructing, and I give you credit for that, but do not allow you boss turn it into a PFT/PFJ situation with the checkouts, if they think enough about you to pay you to instruct then they can drop a little more to get you past the insurance BS. And if they dont, let me know, I know of places that will.

March 31st, 2005, 21:03	#19
GregCollins2 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Hendersonville, NC Posts: 284	Re: Paying for A/C checkout as an instructor at flight school Taught at 6 different schools, never paid.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode